Question about Medjugorje commission

[momof8]

Hi,

I did a search on this topic but couldn’t find the information I was looking for. I noticed in the discussion about the planned, but canceled, CA program on Medjugorje that the local bishop had said that nothing supernatural was happening there. It seemed that Patrick Coffin took that as a final answer on the matter.

But if that is the case, then why is there a Vatican commission studying Medjugorje? I had understood that they were examining the authenticity of the visionaries’ experiences. If that is the case, then the local bishop’s statement was not the final word as it normally would be, isn’t that right?

I’m not looking for a debate on Medjugorje, I just want to understand why there would be a commission if the bishop’s statement should have squelched devotion to these appartions.

Thanks

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Hi,

I did a search on this topic but couldn’t find the information I was looking for. I noticed in the discussion about the planned, but canceled, CA program on Medjugorje that the local bishop had said that nothing supernatural was happening there. It seemed that Patrick Coffin took that as a final answer on the matter.

But if that is the case, then why is there a Vatican commission studying Medjugorje? I had understood that they were examining the authenticity of the visionaries’ experiences. If that is the case, then the local bishop’s statement was not the final word as it normally would be, isn’t that right?

I’m not looking for a debate on Medjugorje, I just want to understand why there would be a commission if the bishop’s statement should have squelched devotion to these appartions.

Thanks

I was thinking the same thing…

 

[dusza]

Obedience to the local bishop would be a positive fruit of a genuine apparition that the Vatican may be observing among other things. Conversely, disobedience to the local bishop would… well, you get the point.

 

[momof8]

Obedience to the local bishop would be a positive fruit of a genuine apparition that the Vatican may be observing among other things. Conversely, disobedience to the local bishop would… well, you get the point.

That certainly sounds correct, but if that is the case, then why take it any further? What is the point of the commission?

 

[jtodisco]

I won’t pretend to know very much about the alleged apparitions at Medjugorje. I’ve only read a few things here or there on them. At the most I am hesitantly hopeful regarding these events. Since the Vatican is still investigating the phenomena I think it is best to postpone judgment. However I do not believe that just because the bishop is opposed to the alleged visions or thinks they are false doesn’t mean that 1) the vision is false or diabolical or 2) that the visionaries are wrong to continue to communicate with the Virgin (if that is who they are in fact communicating with). It seems like just about every Marian apparation is opposed initially by both the religious and secular authorities.

I believe initial skepticism is very good. Sometimes it turns out that the visionaries are liars or that they are deceived and it would be very hurtful to the Church were it to simply take every alleged vision at face value. However, just because there is initial resistance to a vision, even if this resistance lasts for some time, doesn’t mean that the court is out of session so to speak. Look at all the resistance that surrouned Fatima for instance. Or the resistance that took place at Lourdes, etc. Thankfully in such cases the visionaries were not discouraged and continued to willingly communicate with the Blessed Mother.

But as I have already said, I think for now the best course of action is to wait and see what the Vatican decides.

Remember…

“When they had brought them, they had them stand before the council. The high priest questioned them, saying, ‘We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name, yet here you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and you are determined to bring this man’s blood on us.’ But Peter and the apostles answered, ‘We must obey God rather than any human authority. The God of our ancestors raised up Jesus, whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Saviour, so that he might give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him.’
When they heard this, they were enraged and wanted to kill them. But a Pharisee in the council named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, respected by all the people, stood up and ordered the men to be put outside for a short time. Then he said to them, ‘Fellow-Israelites, consider carefully what you propose to do to these men. For some time ago Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him; but he was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and disappeared. After him Judas the Galilean rose up at the time of the census and got people to follow him; he also perished, and all who followed him were scattered. So in the present case, I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone; because if this plan or this undertaking is of human origin, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them—in that case you may even be found fighting against God!’
They were convinced by him, and when they had called in the apostles, they had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. As they left the council, they rejoiced that they were considered worthy to suffer dishonour for the sake of the name. And every day in the temple and at home they did not cease to teach and proclaim Jesus as the Messiah.” – Acts 5.27-42

 

[Michael_Saint]

momof8, I think the answer would differ depending on whether you are a believer in or skeptic of the apparitions.

People on both sides tend to look at the same evidence but interpret it differently.

Medjugorje believers interpret it this way: the Bishops of Mostar have long had alterior motives for opposing the apparitions, and thus the Vatican many years ago took his authority to make the decision on the authenticity of the apparitions away from him. The Commission was called as a formality, so that after a full investigation, the Vatican can have all its ducks in a row when it finally and definitively approves the apparitions once for all and have all the evidence to back it up.

Medjugorje skeptics interpret it this way: after years of disobedience to the Bishops of Mostar, who has given his negative judgment on the apparitions, the Vatican has finally decided to move against “phenomenon Medjugorje” and proclaim that they are not authentic, because people continue to come in great numbers believing in them despite what the Bishops have said.

 

[mandateman]

The local bishop has condemned the visions. The church has made three statements each time it has been asked to investigate further and they have replied that they see no reason to interfer with the decisions already made by the local authority.

 

[mandateman]

The following is from the official vatican statement regarding Medjugoje.

In reference to that it is my honor to make known to you that, regarding the authenticity of the apparitions in question, the Bishops of the former Yugoslavia confirmed in their Declaration of April 10, 1991 published in Zadar:

". . .On the basis of investigation up till now it cannot be established that one is dealing with supernatural apparitions and revelations.

The result from this in what is precisely said is that official pilgrimages to Medjugorje, understood as a place of authentic Marian apparitions, are not permitted to be organized either on the parish or on the diocesan level, because that would be in contradiction to what the Bishops of former Yugoslavia affirmed in their fore mentioned Declaration."

 

[Michael_Saint]

mandateman, I agree with you, and I myself am a skeptic of Medjugorje.

However, your response does not address the question of the OP.

Furthermore, threads debating Medjugorje are banned on the Catholic Answers Forum. So for the sake of the OP, perhaps we should find another place to debate this issue.

 

[momof8]

The local bishop has condemned the visions. The church has made three statements each time it has been asked to investigate further and they have replied that they see no reason to interfer with the decisions already made by the local authority.

Thanks Mandateman and Michael. While the Vatican has said it sees no reason to interfere, apparently they do feel that some further answer has to be given. I will prayerfully wait to see what comes of the commission.

 

[Rising_Suns]

What is the point of the commission?

momof8,
The stated objective of this Commission is principally of a technical matter; to disseminate and publicize the details of the 1991 Yugoslavian Bishops Conference, which as a whole, was cautiously optimistic about the phenomenon, even though they settled on a neutral classification of; “non constat de supernaturalitate” (it is not yet confirmed supernatural). The bishops themselves had a favorable view of Medjugorje, as indicated by the President of the Commission, Cardinal Kuharic;“The Church is not in a hurry. We, the bishops, after three years of examination by the Commission, have declared Medjugorje a place of prayer and a Marian sanctuary. This means that we are not opposed to people coming on pilgrimage to Medjugorje to venerate the Mother of God there, in conformity with the teaching and faith of the universal Church. As to the supernaturality of the apparitions, we have declared: Up to this moment, we cannot affirm it. We leave it for later. The Church is not in a hurry.”
Therefore, we should expect a likewise positive result from this new Commission.

Davide

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medjugorje-apologia.com/

 

[thistle]

momof8,
The stated objective of this Commission is principally of a technical matter; to disseminate and publicize the details of the 1991 Yugoslavian Bishops Conference, which as a whole, was cautiously optimistic about the phenomenon, even though they settled on a neutral classification of; “non constat de supernaturalitate” (it is not yet confirmed supernatural). The bishops themselves had a favorable view of Medjugorje, as indicated by the President of the Commission, Cardinal Kuharic;“The Church is not in a hurry. We, the bishops, after three years of examination by the Commission, have declared Medjugorje a place of prayer and a Marian sanctuary. This means that we are not opposed to people coming on pilgrimage to Medjugorje to venerate the Mother of God there, in conformity with the teaching and faith of the universal Church. As to the supernaturality of the apparitions, we have declared: Up to this moment, we cannot affirm it. We leave it for later. The Church is not in a hurry.”
Therefore, we should expect a likewise positive result from this new Commission.

Davide

---

medjugorje-apologia.com/

Actually that is not correct. Three Bishops Commissions declared there is no evidence of any supernatural happenings in Medjugorie. The alleged visionaries were denounced as frauds. Local franciscan priests who have actively promoted these apparitions have had their faculties suspended. Pope Benedict, while Cardinal Ratzinger, said Medjugorie is a hoax. The only reason it has now moved to Rome for consideration is due to the controversy it has caused and the first action the CDF (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) in Rome took was to suspend another priest at the centre of these alleged apparitions.
Medjugorie has divided the faithful. Now who likes to divide the faithful? It certainly is not God.
I firmly believe the final decision by the CDF will be negative.

 

[Rising_Suns]

Actually that is not correct. Three Bishops Commissions declared there is no evidence of any supernatural happenings in Medjugorie. The alleged visionaries were denounced as frauds. Local franciscan priests who have actively promoted these apparitions have had their faculties suspended. Pope Benedict, while Cardinal Ratzinger, said Medjugorie is a hoax. The only reason it has now moved to Rome for consideration is due to the controversy it has caused and the first action the CDF (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) in Rome took was to suspend another priest at the centre of these alleged apparitions.
Medjugorie has divided the faithful. Now who likes to divide the faithful? It certainly is not God.
I firmly believe the final decision by the CDF will be negative.

Dear Thistle,
I would invite you to look at the website listed below, as it addresses many of the misconceptions that you listed regarding Medjugorje. I would also caution you against reading websites that are not fully referenced to verifiable sources, as many critics seem to want to be very aggressive and over-arching in their conclusions, without fully understanding the history or context of the situation in question.

medjugorje-apologia.com/

Blessings,

Davide

 

[thistle]

Dear Thistle,
I would invite you to look at the website listed below, as it addresses many of the misconceptions that you listed regarding Medjugorje. I would also caution you against reading websites that are not fully referenced to verifiable sources, as many critics seem to want to be very aggressive and over-arching in their conclusions, without fully understanding the history or context of the situation in question.

medjugorje-apologia.com/

Blessings,

Davide

I am reading Bishop Peric’s statement.

Its clear that 3 Bishops Commissions have investigated and stated there is ZERO evidence of any supernatural happenings. It is clear that the "visionaries’ are frauds. It is clear that priests have been suspended. It is clear that the faithful are divided and only Satan divides us, not God.
There is no doubt in my mind that Medjugorie is a fake and at some stage will be declared so by the CDF in Rome.

 

[Insight]

I am reading Bishop Peric’s statement. Its clear that 3 Bishops Commissions have investigated and stated there is ZERO evidence of any supernatural happenings.

The same Bishop who went to the Vatican with taped evidenced against the children made during rigorous cross examination which was found to contain cuts, deleted segments, doctoring, spliced conversations, as well as being undecipherable in at least 148 instances? In which the Vatican sent him back to Mostar and dissolved his commission?

It is clear that the faithful are divided and only Satan divides us, not God.

“Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes [shall be] they of his own household” (Matthew 10:34).

There is no doubt in my mind that Medjugorie is a fake and at some stage will be declared so by the CDF in Rome.

The proper thing to do is allow the Vatican to conduct its investigation, which it is taking very seriously. One of the visionaries Ivanka Ivankovic Elez was recently was called to a three-hour session in Rome with the commission, which was composed of twenty members. Ivanka said the questioning went well and had an optimistic impression afterwards. Jesus does not want us to cast stones, it is in the Vatican’s hands.

God Bless