Question about men and sex

[cavyqueen]

Many guys don’t pursue the real sexual act just because they are infatuated with somebody. That was my original contention with your post. You said guys must have real sex and aren’t satisfied with a fantasy (as women are). If that were true, pornography would not be a billion dollar business. Guys live in fantasy land 24-7 and unless the woman offers real sex it’s back to the solo act and more fantasy.

But if you say that if men don’t pursue it, then why are so many men pressuring women into having sex? That’s usually the reason why so many women “give it up” is because men pressure and threaten to leave them if they don’t. Or do women just imagine that men are pressuring them? (I’m not one of those women who “gives it up” so I don’t know). I know it takes two to tango, but I understand why women do it is because they feel pressured and that’s the reason why they offer it. But what excuse does the man have? If the women offers the man sex then why can’t the man just say no if he knows its wrong since premarital sex has done so much damage to society and before marriage in the meantime he can just channel the lust “solo” So what motive is there to actually risk it when the negative outweighs the positive and in the meantime while waiting for marriage can alone get that “positive” anyway?

 

[JimG]

I think I’m going to go reassure the men in my life that they are not, in fact, immoral dogs. Or any other kind of dogs.

I will, however, continue to liken my oldest son to a turtle, but only because that’s his favorite animal and he takes it as quite a complement.

Cheers,
Cari

That is great. I hope it catches on. The saying “Men are such turtles!” has so much more cachet than saying “all men are dogs.!”

(I always compared my younger brother to a turtle, not so much for his animal preferennces, but for his preferred speed.)

 

[opticks]

But if you say that if men don’t pursue it, then why are so many men pressuring women into having sex? That’s usually the reason why so many women “give it up” is because men pressure and threaten to leave them if they don’t. Or do women just imagine that men are pressuring them? (

I’ll dodge the issue of why men leave women and address the fallacy of observational selection. Sure, some guys are pressuring women to have sex and acting as if they will spontaneously combust if you don’t submit to their need. I don’t deny that and in some cases you are not imagining things.

But it is pure nonsense to say all guys are like this or that they have to be like that due to their physiology. For every one guy who’s acting like a dog in heat there are tens, perhaps hundreds who fantasize about some woman at work, school, or wherever just like you do. You just don’t see or hear about it and so therefore it does not exist and you erroneously draw your conclusion using an incomplete data set.

 

[cavyqueen]

You say most men aren’t like that and have self-control but then if that’s the case then why do statistics say that most men in this country screw out of wedlock?

Sorry for bringing a negative aura to this forum but I have a phobia of male “wolves” and thought here would be the appropriate place to discuss it. I guess I was wrong and I probably should have taken it to a psychiatrist.

 

[Mirdath]

You say most men aren’t like that and have self-control but then if that’s the case then why do statistics say that most men in this country screw out of wedlock?

Statistics say most women have sex outside of marriage, too – and last I checked, often lose their virginity a good bit earlier than men.

 

[opticks]

Why do statistics say that most men in this country screw out of wedlock?

Citation?

I have a phobia of male “wolves” and thought here would be the appropriate place to discuss it. I guess I was wrong and I probably should have taken it to a psychiatrist.

Ok now we get the real issue (which you have not mentioned before) and that is a fear of “wolves.” Yes, these type of guys exist and your tone suggests you had a run in with one. I’m sorry if this was the case. In your socioeconomic circle these men might be more common than average and are skewing your opinion.

But if your family has strong male role models know that many more men are out there just like them! Ignore the dogs and start looking around for real men even if that means leaving your city or state. I’ll pray for you…it’s Lent after all.

 

[cavyqueen]

Citation?

Ok now we get the real issue (which you have not mentioned before) and that is a fear of “wolves.” Yes, these type of guys exist and your tone suggests you had a run in with one. I’m sorry if this was the case. In your socioeconomic circle these men might be more common than average and are skewing your opinion. .

Actually…the men in my place and socioeconomic circle don’t seem like wolves at all; I’m basing this on countrywide statistics I read on the internet. I always thought the men were around me were ok, but once I read those nationwide statistics I was like “whoa men around me in this country are doing THIS?” I haven’t literally seen them do it but I read this is what American men are like.

But on a positive note, maybe someday the sexual revolution will fade someday in the future, I mean, we were able to get rid of racism and smoking (OK it’s still around but no where NEAR as much)

 

[opticks]

I’m basing this on countrywide statistics I read on the internet. I always thought the men were around me were ok, but once I read those nationwide statistics I was like “whoa men around me in this country are doing THIS?” I haven’t literally seen them do it but I read this is what American men are like.

Your original post sounded like the rant of a girl who got used by some lame guy.

All this:

“Why are most men so sexually immoral? Why are they so desperate for sex that they feel the need to hurt and exploit women…”

“I wanna know the answers to those questions so I won’t feel so afraid, judgmental and stressed because if most men are so immoral then why should I even like, trust or respect them?”

over some stuff you read on the Internet?

Now you are confusing me…

 

[Cari]

Ahhhh, the Internet, home of the most reliable statistics anywhere.

Seriously, if the men you know are decent, moral men, why would you believe uncited (to this thread anyway) statistics over the example God has placed in your very path?

I can find you a slew of Internet statistics that say abortion is good for women, that the U.S. government killed Kennedy and faked the lunar landing, and that ketchup is, mysteriously, a proper vegetable for schoolchildren’s lunches.

Either there is more to this story than you’re willing to disclose, or else you might want to consider limiting your Internet exposure (much like myself, who needs to get off these time-sucking forums and GO TO BED!!! )

 

[cheddarsox]

Here is a biological explanation for why males pursue more random, frequent sexual encounters than females.

A male is capable of having many more offspring in a lifetime than a female. All he contributes are sperm cells, and he makes many more than a female makes eggs.

Males are wired, biologically, to mate with as many females as possible, in order to spread their genetic material as widely as possible.

Females are more selective, because they have a more limited opportunity to spread their genetic material, and thus, it is best to only choose the strongest, most desirable mates.

That is how most mammals are “wired” by nature.

That is the biological tendency.

Humans have the ability and grace to overcome these tendencies…given that they have been raised with the mental, spiritual and emotional resources to do so.

Many people are not raised with these resources, they have no “reason” to do other than what nature inclines them to do.

 

[mapleoak]

Hopefully, this question is being asked in sincerity out of ignorance. Helpful suggestions: Throw out the television, end the frequentation of the local bars, get involved in situations that decent people (both men and women) participate in. Ones perception of the world can become very tainted from the company one keeps.

In Christ - J.M.J.
mapleoak

Add to that - throw out the computer and internet until prudence of judgement is attained.

In Christ - J.M.J.
Mapleoak

 

[GregoryPalamas]

One very helpful experience in my life in order to keep our vision upon truely what it is to be human is to have a constant counter balance to the salacious temptations in our secular society. Find a Church that still depicts men and women as the Saints God made us to be. I know the Latin Church has suffered from two generations of iconoclasm but there are still Churches that depict men and women as they are made to be and there are still Churches in which men and women actually dress and behave modestly.

Take a look here www.byzantinecatholic.com

or here cantius.org/

CDL

 

[LeahInancsi]

I admit I only read the first couple posts, but I believe the answer is that it’s God’s plan to ensure the survival of the species.

Some men (and women) just aren’t able to conduct themselves in a civilized manner in a civilized society.

It’s very simple.:newidea:

 

[cavyqueen]

I admit I only read the first couple posts, but I believe the answer is that it’s God’s plan to ensure the survival of the species.

Some men (and women) just aren’t able to conduct themselves in a civilized manner in a civilized society.

It’s very simple.:newidea:

What?!? That doesn’t simplify it at all. The biological part only explains the feelings and thoughts but how does it explain ACTING IT OUT IN REAL LIFE? Men have the ability to reason and use self-control do they not? And you say some men aren’t able to conduct themselves. If virtually no American men keep their pants up for their wives, then it ain’t just some men, it’s every man. It confuses me that every single man in this country would be unable to demonstrate self-control. Maybe some men choose to actually engage in actual premarital sex for other reasons like social pressure or ego-boosting (doesn’t sex make men feel desired by women?)?

 

[Mirdath]

What?!? That doesn’t simplify it at all. The biological part only explains the feelings and thoughts but how does it explain ACTING IT OUT IN REAL LIFE? Men have the ability to reason and use self-control do they not? And you say some men aren’t able to conduct themselves. If virtually no American men keep their pants up for their wives, then it ain’t just some men, it’s every man. It confuses me that every single man in this country would be unable to demonstrate self-control. Maybe some men choose to actually engage in actual premarital sex for other reasons like social pressure or ego-boosting (doesn’t sex make men feel desired by women?)?

Once again, you’re assuming that first every man acts like so, and that second, no woman acts like so. You’re wrong on both counts.

If you want simple, stay on your computer – you won’t come into contact with any other actual human beings. Humans aren’t simple.

 

[JezuUfamTobie]

Cavy sweetie,

I am not sure if anybody has covered this yet or not… but are you aware of the fact that lustful thoughts and fantasies are every bit as much of a sin as physical fornication?

Moving on…

The reasons you’re so worried about this issue is because you know deep down inside that human beings are to be treated respectfully. While it’s true that both men and women sin, it is natural that the mistakes of the average woman are more understandable to you than the mistakes of an average man. I felt like you all throughout high school and college. It is easy for me to see how a lonely woman who longs to be loved and protected would make the bitter mistake of giving her body away to someone who is not her husband. Being women ourselves, we can see that oftentimes women commit sinful acts in a misguided attempt to do something good.

What you need to do now is give that same charity of thought to men. There are many, many men in the world who engage in selfish, destructive sexual acts acts simply because they want what is good and they have yet to encounter Christ. Granted, this is not true in all cases–some men and women do consciously desire to serve the evil one. But you don’t know which are which.

Many people get entirely wrapped up in sin, so much so that it becomes difficult to see any goodness in them at all. But most of the time there is still a glimmering desire, deep down, to see the face of God. But God isn’t going to force them to look at Him just yet. They have the free will to decide where to go and what to do.

What can you do about it? Let your life be a witness to truth and beauty. Love your fallen neighbors, men and women alike. Don’t get down in the mud with them, but be a light by which they can see more clearly where to go.

I hope you find peace about this, Cavy. Pray for me, too! I know exactly how it feels to fear the things you talk about in your post.

 

[junk]

You say most men aren’t like that and have self-control but then if that’s the case then why do statistics say that most men in this country screw out of wedlock?

Sorry for bringing a negative aura to this forum but I have a phobia of male “wolves” and thought here would be the appropriate place to discuss it. I guess I was wrong and I probably should have taken it to a psychiatrist.

I think you’re blowing all of this out of proportion and you’re throwing about media stereotypes. It’s not just men who are immoral. The sexual morality of most guys and girls is, nowadays, absolutely appalling, but in my experience, guys tend to be more open about it because for some reason it’s more socially acceptable. Statistics, however, do little to incriminate guys more that girls.

Cavyqueen, you say that American men cannot keep their pants up. Indeed, 89% of guys have had premarital sex by the age of 25. But the figure for women is 88%! And the median age for first premarital sex is 17.6 for men and 17.2 for women. And you say you have a phobia of “male wolves.” A phobia is an irrational fear. And that’s just what it is.

I know lots of guys - atheist, Christian and Hindu who have a great deal of self-control. I don’t know very many girls that do, but then again, most of my friends are guys. In fact, the most awfully perverted person I’ve ever met is a woman - do you suggest that I start making sweeping generalisations about women based on that?

Let’s not be silly. We - men and women - are human beings with a tendency towards sin. Get over it, and don’t blame the awful state of the culture on men. That’s what got us here in the first place.

There are many men who have been virtuous protectors and providers and who have sacrificed their very lives to protect women and children. Men have done most of the dirty work, such as fighting wars, so that you wouldn’t have to. Stop this man-hating nonsense now.

 

[PLAL]

Why are most men so sexually immoral? Why are they so desperate for sex that they feel the need to hurt and exploit women and so desperate for it despite all of the consequences of fornication (that also indirectly hurt other people) that make it obviously way more trouble than it’s worth? All for what? A tingly feeling in their private parts? I mean, I get sexually aroused too that doesn’t mean I’m going to act on it. Just like I get angry and feel the urge to punch somebody, that doesn’t mean I’m going to do it. How is fornication any different? Why is a tingly feeling in their private parts so important to men that they feel the need to cause all those negative consequences and on top of it they’ll get it anyway if they just wait? Why don’t they simply demonstrate self-control? It’s not that hard. I know the men in my family aren’t like that but I keep hearing that most men are- hopefully that’s just hype, but anyway, I wanna know the answers to those questions so I won’t feel so afraid, judgmental and stressed because if most men are so immoral then why should I even like, trust or respect them?

cavyqueen,

I agree. Sex should not be like “acting on an itch”. Self control has to be used. You should listen to Fr. Thomas Loya’s talks on Theology of the Body.

---

“Why do Men Love Football so Much”…

Fr. Thomas Loya explains thru “The Theology of the Body”

Listen to 2/6/05 on Fr. Loya’s Audio Archives…

byzantinecatholic.com/radio.htm#

---

Here’s some other “Theology of the Body” talks in the Audio Archives…

byzantinecatholic.com/Supplement4.htm

 

[LeahInancsi]

What?!? That doesn’t simplify it at all. The biological part only explains the feelings and thoughts but how does it explain ACTING IT OUT IN REAL LIFE? Men have the ability to reason and use self-control do they not? And you say some men aren’t able to conduct themselves. If virtually no American men keep their pants up for their wives, then it ain’t just some men, it’s every man. It confuses me that every single man in this country would be unable to demonstrate self-control. Maybe some men choose to actually engage in actual premarital sex for other reasons like social pressure or ego-boosting (doesn’t sex make men feel desired by women?)?

Your question is almost as deep as the meaning of life. It goes back to the beginning of time. Men have been those who made the laws and guided religion. As long as they could make woman the scapegoat, they can get away with anything. It’s no different now. If men were the ones to get pregnant out of wedlock, you can be sure they’d keep their pants on.

Boys have been allowed to be “boys” and not have to suffer any consequences. Society is the most guilty party, then fathers and then mothers. I wish my mother had had a son. I would love to have seen her control his life like she did mine. In her mind (and mine and yours) there are no moral reasons why men cannot behave properly. A young man sewing his wild oats is no worse than a young woman doing the same. They’re both immoral, disreputable excuses for human beings. They don’t control themselves because they don’t have to. Society says women do, so they do.

Going back to my original comment, I really do think that the drive in men is so strong that it is very hard for most men to control and all men struggle with it. If the drive weren’t so strong, there is a possibility that humans would cease to exist. We’ll never know.

 

[junk]

If men were the ones to get pregnant out of wedlock, you can be sure they’d keep their pants on.

Essentially, what you’re saying is that men have more self-control than women. It is women who get pregnant out of wedlock, and yet they somehow don’t keep their pants on, but if men got pregnant, you say they would.

And statistically, it seems ladies are just as bad as men at keeping their pants on before marriage.

For every fornicating man there’s a fornicating woman statistically speaking. And, I mean, men don’t fornicate alone.

Ladies need to take some responsibility. 94% of women don’t have premarital sex by accident, you know.