Question about Mortal Sin

[DaneClark]

Is it still considered a mortal sin if it happened because of a compulsion, and you didn’t intentionally mean to offend God?

 

[Redratfish]

Was it wrong,
Did you know it was wrong
Did your compulsion force you not to do it freely?

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Was it wrong,
Did you know it was wrong
Did your compulsion force you not to do it freely?

The compulsion doesn’t need to completely force you to do something, I believe. A compulsion means your consent was not FULL, so your sin is venial.

It’s more complex than this or too many people would get off the hook too easily, but you see what I mean?

 

[Mijoy2]

The compulsion doesn’t need to completely force you to do something, I believe. A compulsion means your consent was not FULL, so your sin is venial.

It’s more complex than this or too many people would get off the hook too easily, but you see what I mean?

Mortal Sin defintion is sooo darn subjective.

What would constitute “full consent”. For example, if someone steps on my toe and I shoot them, I did not do it with “full” consent of the will. Maybe 99.9999% full but not quite “full”. Extreme example but none the less an example. For that matter we do have (in society) the concpet of justifiable suicide. Maybe not toe-stepping but if someone were to hurt a loved one and I snapped, for example, and retailiated and shot them. Same example but a lesser extreme. So how do we know where to draw the line?

If I commit adultry it is because I was (possibly) seduced into the action. Again, not “full” consent.

The word “full” is a loaded word. We can talk our way out of anything.

 

[PJM]

=DaneClark;6712213]Is it still considered a mortal sin if it happened because of a compulsion, and you didn’t intentionally mean to offend God?

There are various degrees of cupability of Mortal sins. Compulsion lessons the degree, but usually does not alter the fact that it is still a Mortal sin. Although it might?

This is a matter to be discussed with your Confessor-priest, who is trained to make that kind of judgment call.

God’s continued blessings,
Pat

 

[WatchingMedia]

You need to discuss this with your Priest in the confidentiality of Confession.
Since we don’t know the sin or circumstances, we can not answer your question, specifically to your case.
Erroneous Judgement (CCC 1791 & 1792), ignorance can make a sin Mortal depending on the circumstance as well.

Compulsion is not an excuse for committing sin.
If the sin is through the habit of committing a sin, the person is responsibile for the sin he commits. CCC 1791.

 

[DaneClark]

the sin I was referring to is looking at non-pornographic (but still kind of immodest) pictures of fashion models, when it is a habit that you have been doing for years and are trying to quit, but still have occasional slip-ups?

 

[PJM]

=DaneClark;6712832]the sin I was referring to is looking at non-pornographic (but still kind of immodest) pictures of fashion models, when it is a habit that you have been doing for years and are trying to quit, but still have occasional slip-ups?

If the intent in doing so is physical arousal; its a Mortal sin. If it is artistic and objective reflection of “art” it i not. Wht in reality is phornograpic for one may not be fo someone else.

As previously discussed you should discuss this with your Confessor and get his guidence.

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[ForeverGrace]

I have a question that I have asked of Catholics before and didn’t get a satisfactory answer to… or perhaps I didn’t frame my question well enough to be understood, so the fault is mine.

Be patient with me, I’m not a Catholic so I’m honestly trying to understand what you believe and why. I’m not making a judgment about anyone.

So here goes: Why do Catholics define some sins as mortal and others and venial? Isn’t a lie every bit as much sin as stealing? I don’t understand where the idea of quantifying sin comes from in terms of scripture. It looks to me as though sin is sin and God hates it all. It can all be forgiven except for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit according to scripture as well.

I Corinthians 6:9-11 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality , nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God”.
We do not live under the Old Testament law of stoning prostitutes, etc.

Could someone please help me out here. Thanks to all who try to help this humble servant.

 

[PJM]

=ForeverGrace;6715944]I have a question that I have asked of Catholics before and didn’t get a satisfactory answer to… or perhaps I didn’t frame my question well enough to be understood, so the fault is mine.

Be patient with me, I’m not a Catholic so I’m honestly trying to understand what you believe and why. I’m not making a judgment about anyone.

So here goes: Why do Catholics define some sins as mortal and others and venial? Isn’t a lie every bit as much sin as stealing? I don’t understand where the idea of quantifying sin comes from in terms of scripture. It looks to me as though sin is sin and God hates it all. It can all be forgiven except for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit according to scripture as well.

Could someone please help me out here. Thanks to all who try to help this humble servant.

Hi, Thanks for asking. And yes the Catholic Position is Biblical. It has to do with God’s Justice. Here’s is an example:

I’m very rich, and your poor and you steal $50.00 from me. I don’t need th money but want it back simply because it “belongs to me.” You refuse; I get angry and kill you, and while running out of your house I get hit by a car and killed. Can God, in justice judge us the same? No, He cannot.

1John.1 Verses 8 to 10: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

Mortal sins are so serious that they completely rupture our relationship with God, until Confessed and forgiven. Lesser sins, that we call “venial” sins lessen the flow of God’s grace to us, but we remain in relationship with God.

Love and prayers,
Pat

1John.5 Verses 16 to 17 "If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal.** There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.**

John.20 Verses 20 to 23" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

As an FYI… This practice of Priest Intercessors for forgiveness of sins dates back at least to Moses and Aaron. And yes; it is God who actually forgives the sin.

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[ForeverGrace]

Thanks for you lovely reply. I appreciate your time and thoughtfulness.

I’m very familiar with the scriptures you offered and I can understand how this idea came to fruition, but I simply could not find the word ‘mortal’ in any of the verses. I feel pretty sure that the Catholics have attached the word ‘mortal’ to them as they are sins that lead to death. In my mind, it’s semantics, but not anything to argue about. I looked up the verses in the KJV, NKJV, ESV, NASB, NIV and even the paraphrase, The Message. The sin that leads to death is no where defined in any of the translations. The footnotes in some of the translations theorize about what this sin might be, but they all concluded that it was really a best guess.

Then I went over to the gospels to read again about the only UNforgiveable sin being blasphemy of the the Holy Spirit. Again, though, it’s not completely defined. I have some thoughts on it, but I couldn’t back it up by scripture and you know us Protestants, if it’s not in the Bible, we are more than a little skeptical. For me personally, there are only a few doctrines from Catholicism that I take serious issue with and I don’t think they amount to anything that would keep me from fellowshipping with so many lovely people who truly love God.

I also understand your example about justice. But all I really gleaned from it is that both people were behaving badly and one died before he could actually ask for forgiveness. I don’t see God as a father who casts us into hell simply because we didn’t get 10 more minutes of life to repent. Did I misunderstand? I don’t think God has a scoreboard of checks and balances. That smacks of Islam.

David comitted adultery and had Bathsheeba’s husband Uriah murdered, yet his relationship was not forever broken. He did pay the consequences and God in his ever loving grace forgave him. Even still David was called a man after God’s own heart.

I tend to believe that someone has to have had his heart so hardened that he/she completely rejects the love of God. I’m reminded that Jesus instructed us not to throw our pearls before swine because we should not give something holy to that which is unholy. I don’t know exactly where the line is, but I think most of us know it, when we see it. I have a cousin who used to be a Pastor for 17 years. Now he is a fairly well-known atheist. It’s not enough for him to say he just stopped believing in God, he writes songs to mock Jesus and Christians and spends most of his time trying to remove the name of God from every vestige, or monument of our country. I’m thinking that’s what the unforgiveable sin is. It’s different than than the prodigal son.

What is an example in Catholicism of a mortal sin?

I’m very grateful to you for your help in trying to understand and I hope you will not get the idea that I’m just here to argue. I’m not. I’m just trying to make sense of this.

Because He Lives…

 

[PJM]

=ForeverGrace; Thanks for you lovely reply. I appreciate your time and thoughtfulness.

Then I went over to the gospels to read again about the only UNforgiveable sin being blasphemy of the the Holy Spirit. Again, though, it’s not completely defined. I have some thoughts on it, but I couldn’t back it up by scripture and you know us Protestants, if it’s not in the Bible, we are more than a little skeptical. For me personally, there are only a few doctrines from Catholicism that I take serious issue with and I don’t think they amount to anything that would keep me from fellowshipping with so many lovely people who truly love God.

The Douay Rheims bible, like the KJB uses the term “unto death.” The Catholic Churches uses the terms “Mortal” and “Venial sins” in identifying the two types. The meaning is consistent with “unto death.” A COMPLETE rupture of relationship with God. Until Confessed and forgiven.

I also understand your example about justice. But all I really gleaned from it is that both people were behaving badly and one died before he could actually ask for forgiveness. I don’t see God as a father who casts us into hell simply because we didn’t get 10 more minutes of life to repent. Did I misunderstand? I don’t think God has a scoreboard of checks and balances. That smacks of Islam.

God by His very Nature MUST BE [no options here] both fair and just. Therefore He cannot judge vastly different actions in seriousness the same way. And for God time simply does not exist. The Bible is replete with warnings to live a good life, and end time warnings of you will not know when the “master returns.” So yes God will Judge, because God MUST be fair. And yes God does have a scoreboard, because He MUST in order to apply Divine Justice. Rev.21: 27 “But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life“.

The Unforgivable sin is “denial” of God“, and specifically denial of Jesus Christ as God.

2Cor.11: 15 “So it is not strange if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds”** 1Pet.1: 17 “And if you invoke as Father him who judges each one impartially according to his deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile.” Mark 13: 34-37 ** It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his servants in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to be on the watch. Watch therefore – for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrow, or in the morning – lest he come suddenly and find you asleep. And what I say to you I say to all: Watch." [in other words do not allow yourself to caught with unrepented; unconfessed Grievous sins.]

David comitted adultery and had Bathsheeba’s husband Uriah murdered, yet his relationship was not forever broken. He did pay the consequences and God in his ever loving grace forgave him. Even still David was called a man after God’s own heart.

God is a God of Justice, but He is also a God of Mercy and Love. Four of the Seven sacraments instituted by Christ have to varying degrees the God given power to remit sins. And the CC is the ONLY Church to have the Sacrament of known forgiveness [don’t guess or have to just hope, or presume to understand God’s ideas of Justice].

What is an example in Catholicism of a mortal sin?

***A Mortal sin is a Mortal sin regardless of faith affiliation. They are God’s judgment of our actions; not ours.

Three conditions must always be present

Serious matter [defined as what “a normal person would consider to be serious“]

Knowledge before the act; that committing it would be a mortal sin [or should know that]

And then desiring to do it anyway. Freewill -Desire to do is seen by God as the same as doing

Examples of Mortal sin are murder, abortion, marriage infidelity, pre-material sex, ruining someone’s reputation though gossip, missing Sunday and Holyday Mass, serious acts of lack of charity, possibly taking the Lords name in vain if done with that intent, serious theft, entertaining on purpose lustful thoughts, [or porn.[/COLOR]***

Hope this helps?

Love and prayers,
Pat**

 

[jayabbott]

Is it still considered a mortal sin if it happened because of a compulsion, and you didn’t intentionally mean to offend God?

It’s really a question you should take up with the priest who hears your confession. The important thing is that you know, or believe, or suspect, that you commited a mortal sin. So take it to confession and you and the priest can sort it out there.

And the three elements that go to make up a mortal sin – grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent – are all three necessary. But if you know, or believe, that you commited an act consisting of grave matter, then since it’s grave matter, it is serious enough – even if the other elements are not recognized as present – to confess it nonetheless.

It may be hard to know with certainty that a particular sin is mortal, but it’s not so hard to recognize grave matter. So call it a grave sin, and confess it!

 

[ForeverGrace]

Pat,

I carefully looked at your examples and the forethought that goes into committing them.

A Mortal sin is a Mortal sin regardless of faith affiliation. They are God’s judgment of our actions; not ours.

Three conditions must always be present

Serious matter [defined as what “a normal person would consider to be serious“]

Knowledge before the act; that committing it would be a mortal sin [or should know that]

And then desiring to do it anyway. Freewill -Desire to do is seen by God as the same as doing

Examples of Mortal sin are murder, abortion, marriage infidelity, pre-material sex, ruining someone’s reputation though gossip, missing Sunday and Holyday Mass, serious acts of lack of charity, possibly taking the Lords name in vain if done with that intent, serious theft, entertaining on purpose lustful thoughts, [or porn.[/COLOR]

Perhaps I’m going about this the wrong way because I’m not understanding how missing Sunday Mass could be defined a **complete RUPTURE **of your relationship with God. I could understand it if a person just stopped going to Mass altogether as an act of defiance against God or an act of selfishness to engage in other secular pursuits, but I can’t see this as a loss of my relationship with God.

In any case, I did ask the question, so I’ll take your word for it. To be clear then, a venial sin would be what? Is it a sin that was committed on accident or without realizing that a certain action would be a sin?

Thank you again for your help. I sincerely appreciate it.

 

[PJM]

=ForeverGrace;6721043]Pat,

I carefully looked at your examples and the forethought that goes into committing them.

A Mortal sin is a Mortal sin regardless of faith affiliation. They are God’s judgment of our actions; not ours.

Three conditions must always be present

Serious matter [defined as what “a normal person would consider to be serious“]

Knowledge before the act; that committing it would be a mortal sin [or should know that]

And then desiring to do it anyway. Freewill -Desire to do is seen by God as the same as doing

Examples of Mortal sin are murder, abortion, marriage infidelity, pre-material sex, ruining someone’s reputation though gossip, missing Sunday and Holyday Mass, serious acts of lack of charity, possibly taking the Lords name in vain if done with that intent, serious theft, entertaining on purpose lustful thoughts, [or porn.[/COLOR]

Perhaps I’m going about this the wrong way because I’m not understanding how missing Sunday Mass could be defined a **complete RUPTURE **of your relationship with God. I could understand it if a person just stopped going to Mass altogether as an act of defiance against God or an act of selfishness to engage in other secular pursuits, but I can’t see this as a loss of my relationship with God.

In any case, I did ask the question, so I’ll take your word for it. To be clear then, a venial sin would be what? Is it a sin that was committed on accident or without realizing that a certain action would be a sin?

Thank you again for your help. I sincerely appreciate it.

***Sins might be described “as saying NOto God!”

If the NO in a serious matter and intentional it is a Mortal [unto death] sin; if it is less serious, a bad habit, unintentional, it is a lesser “venial” sin.***

I responeded via the PM to you on the balance of your thoughtful comments.

Love and prayers,
Pat