question about Opus Dei

[mountee]

I am simply at a loss for words at what has been posted here and how it was posted. As someone who had some interest in Opus Dei I am overwhelmed with all of this and will have to spend a long time reviewing what has been cited as a lot of it is not anything I ever believed. But, frankly, the tone of these back and forth conversations have not been very respectful. Certainly you would agree that adults of differing opinions can find ways to exchange those opinions with respect for the other person’s dignity as one of God’s people. Please, take the time to measure your words. God bless you.

 

[Rosietbd]

Not sure why people have a problem with Opus Dei.
But Jesus said to him, “Do not stop him, for the one who is not against you is for you.” (Lk 9,50).
The Holy Father does not have a problem with Opus Dei.
JPII never had a problem.
So, let those who are doing the work of God be in peace. Do not stop them. Opus Dei does a great service to the Church.
“For the one who is not against us is for us.” (Mark 9, 40)

 

[Edward_H]

To properly and better understand the statutes you need to learn more about the spirituality of Opus Dei. I mentioned above a point about the pastoral intent of discretion and not hiding behind the banner of an organization. In Opus Dei, there are no “membership cards” and published rolls, not for secrecy but for privacy and humility. Ask any member of Opus Dei to show an identity card to substantiate their membership and they won’t be able to provide one. This minimizes the defect of a prideful affiliation.

All of the statutes in some way reinforce a useful pastoral point for the faithful in Opus Dei: collective or personal humility, individual responsibility, sincerity, freedom, discretion, smiling asceticism, etc.

That’s why I suggested a more broad reading of St Josemaria’s writings, particularly his homilies. Read “Passionately Loving the World” (just google and you will find it).

Otherwise, just looking at the Statutes, in standalone fashion, is like looking at a skeleton and then imagining how the body moves and functions in the world.

 

[Julia_Mae]

…
All of the statutes in some way reinforce a useful pastoral point for the faithful in Opus Dei: collective or personal humility, individual responsibility, sincerity, freedom, discretion, smiling asceticism, etc.

I don’t think speculation is necessary as he put the reason for the stricture right in the statute:

N191 This collective humility leads our people to live the life which they consecrate to God with the same discretion which is most suited to the desired fruitfulness of the apostolate. The lack of this discretion can constitute a grave obstacle to exercising apostolic work or create some difficulty in the environment of one’s natural family or in the exercise of their office or profession. Thus the Numerary and Supernumerary members should know they are to live a prudent silence regarding the names of other members; and that they are never to reveal to anyone that they themselves belong to Opus Dei, not even to spread the Institute, without express permission from their local director.

Why do you think people, family or business associates, knowing you are in Opus Dei, would constitute a grave obstacle to exercising apostolic work or create difficulty in your family so consistently that the Founder felt it was necessary to forbid members from revealing that information without permission?

 

[Edward_H]

I don’t think speculation is necessary as he put the reason for the stricture right in the statute:

N191 This collective humility leads our people to live the life which they consecrate to God with the same discretion which is most suited to the desired fruitfulness of the apostolate. The lack of this discretion can constitute a grave obstacle to exercising apostolic work or create some difficulty in the environment of one’s natural family or in the exercise of their office or profession. Thus the Numerary and Supernumerary members should know they are to live a prudent silence regarding the names of other members; and that they are never to reveal to anyone that they themselves belong to Opus Dei, not even to spread the Institute, without express permission from their local director.

Why do you think people, family or business associates, knowing you are in Opus Dei, would constitute a grave obstacle to exercising apostolic work or create difficulty in your family so consistently that the Founder felt it was necessary to forbid members from revealing that information without permission?

Well the straightforward answer is that some people might be prone to conclude that one’s apostolic efforts were focused on organizational ambitions rather than toward the temporal and eternal good of individual souls. I think such mistakes could lead to serious and even grave consequences.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Well the straightforward answer is that some people might be prone to conclude that one’s apostolic efforts were focused on organizational ambitions rather than toward the temporal and eternal good of individual souls. I think such mistakes could lead to serious and even grave consequences.

But that doesn’t make much sense to me. I mean, no one thinks that about the monks who sell coffee or the sisters who sell cookies. And here’s a guy like Michael Voris, Opus Dei Numerary, with one of the most visible apostolates around, openly proclaiming his organization is dedicated to saving souls. How is it necessary to hide the fact that he is Opus Dei?

And what about the families, Edward? What does your family think of your Opus Dei affiliation? I mean, many families have reservations or even objections to vocations of their offspring or siblings, but no one is joining an order or entering a seminary without telling their families, right?

 

[Edward_H]

But that doesn’t make much sense to me. I mean, no one thinks that about the monks who sell coffee or the sisters who sell cookies. And here’s a guy like Michael Voris, Opus Dei Numerary, with one of the most visible apostolates around, openly proclaiming his organization is dedicated to saving souls. How is it necessary to hide the fact that he is Opus Dei?

And what about the families, Edward? What does your family think of your Opus Dei affiliation? I mean, many families have reservations or even objections to vocations of their offspring or siblings, but no one is joining an order or entering a seminary without telling their families, right?

Think of the time and place that the Statutes were written. it was a very “clerical” time. Escriva faced great resistance against the established clerical order. Orders were competing for seminarians…lots of organizational boundaries and identities and loyalties. Opus Dei had a different message and focus: to Christianize the ordinary world. It was almost like antibodies acting against the budding group. He didn’t want to fight or compete with these groups, including some orders; he wanted focus to be on the pursuit of holiness in the ordinary, non clerical world. One way to do that, which reinforced nicely with the pastoral point, would be to lessen focus on groups, names, memberships.

Study the early life of Opus Dei and the statutes make great sense.

 

[Edward_H]

Julia Mae,

Regarding families: opusdei.us/art.php?p=49753

 

[Edward_H]

I don’t know for a fact what Voris’s membership or contact with the Work is.

His work though isn’t an apostolate of Opus Dei. He may be a member, he may receive formation from Opus Dei, but his work isn’t a work of Opus Dei. You will see plainly if an organization is under the care of Opus Dei. See the Midtown Program in Chicago.

opusdei.us/art.php?p=48972

 

[Edward_H]

Most numeraries hold “real jobs”…accountants, lawyers, teachers, etc. They work “in the world” not on “Catholic projects”. I know a Numerary who runs an educational foundation; he is totally self-supporting. He is merely trying to sanctify the ordinary world. It’s not under the care of Opus Dei, he’s not recruiting, he is simply trying to provide the best educational programs he can to largely inner city youths. His pursuit of holiness penetrates what he does…but there is no sign in his office.

Very naturally and diligently Christianizing the world. His formation, his practice of the Faith, his affiliation is a private, not secret matter.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I don’t know for a fact what Voris’s membership or contact with the Work is.

His work though isn’t an apostolate of Opus Dei. He may be a member, he may receive formation from Opus Dei, but his work isn’t a work of Opus Dei. You will see plainly if an organization is under the care of Opus Dei. See the Midtown Program in Chicago.

opusdei.us/art.php?p=48972

Edward, every apostolate by every Numerary is an Opus Dei apostolate. While the statutes plainly say that OD is not legally responsible, the statutes also require all Numeraries to consult Opus Dei about how they do what they do. They control them without owning them and all the monies generated are turned over to, and controlled by, Opus Dei. This is how the Prelature, and before it the Institute, were structured.

Now, I have many questions about things that make no sense to me. I don’t think you have the answers, so, I’ll mosey along for the time being. Thanks for the chat.

 

[Edward_H]

Edward, every apostolate by every Numerary is an Opus Dei apostolate. While the statutes plainly say that OD is not legally responsible, the statutes also require all Numeraries to consult Opus Dei about how they do what they do. They control them without owning them and all the monies generated are turned over to, and controlled by, Opus Dei. This is how the Prelature, and before it the Institute, were structured.

Now, I have many questions about things that make no sense to me. I don’t think you have the answers, so, I’ll mosey along for the time being. Thanks for the chat.

No, before you mosey away fully cocked and half-loaded, you should understand: There are corporate works of Opus Dei, and there are individual works by members of Opus Dei, supernumerary or Numerary.
.

 

[Edward_H]

The Knights of Columbus have more than a million members; Opus Dei about 90k. So much for being an enormous group within the Catholic Church.

 

[MichaelKirke]

Julia, sorry for the delayed reply. I was away from my computer fro the past 24 yours or so. I am a numerary - and have been for nearly 50 years. I’m afraid I am also a fairly simple person and while I know the importance of “terms and conditions” I also know that they are and need to be quite complicated, water-tight and all the rest, but that ultimately they are benign when they come from a trustworthy source. I trust the Catholic Church more than I trust anything on this earth and therefore the details of the statutes of Opus Dei cause me no problem. Like any product I buy on the internet, knowing the product itself is the important thing and therefore I seldom have any difficult about checking the “I accept” box for anything I want to buy into. Having found Opus Dei nearly 50 years ago, having got to know it, its work and its spirit, I made what I consider a mature decision to commit myself to it and have never had a single regret about this in all those years. I thank God every day of my life since then for the grace he gave me to do so.
Keep it simple. God is not complicated. He is our Father. Anyone who is interested in Opus Dei - one of the many gifts He has given to us in and through His Church - will not easily find its spirit in the statutes - even though it is there - but will find it in all its beauty in the work it is trying to do for the salvation of souls in and through the ordinary occupations of this world. In the end of the day that is all that matters.
The specific nature of those occupations may seem to serve that goal directly in some way (like teaching, writing, lawmaking, family life, for example), or may not seem to do so (like assembly-line work, military service, software design, etc.), but all in fact do so by virtue of their being done for the honour an glory of God. It is from that supernaturally motivated act, linking those occupations to the meritorious sacrifice of Christ through the Mass, that the merit comes to help in the work of salvation.
Not all may identify with this spirit or this way of trying to live a Christian vocation. There is nothing wrong with that. Live and let live is the best way to go about our business with love and respect for the freedom of others in most things.
Michael.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Julia, sorry for the delayed reply. I was away from my computer fro the past 24 yours or so. I am a numerary - and have been for nearly 50 years.

Thanks for coming back to the thread, Michael. But the value of Opus Dei wasn’t my question. I do have some questions, though. Are you a priest? Also, if you have been a member for 50 years, you did not join the Prelature, you joined the Institute. That means the 1982 addendum to the Constitution wasn’t yet written and did not apply. The 1950 Constitutions required you to pronounce vows of obedience, poverty and chastity. Was that what you did? (The Canon referenced below is, of course, from the 1917 CoCL.)

-53 S1
For the Numeraries, the incorporation into the Institute accomplished through the Oblation, requires taking social vows of poverty, of chastity and of obedience.

–53 S2
These social vows, although they are not recognized as public vows according to the law (Canon 1308 S1), they are, nevertheless, recognized by the Church; wherefore they can also be called private vows, recognized. These cease in the case of dismissal or dissolution of the bond by which Numeraries are bound to the Institute, conceded by the Holy See, or the Father, as the case may be.

At the time you entered the Institute, had you read the Constitutions?

 

[MichaelKirke]

No Julia I am not a priest. If you read that major tome, The Canonical Path of Opus Dei you will get a good idea of how the letter of the law of the pre-prelature days did not really match the spirit of what Opus Dei in fact was. Thank God that is no longer the case and the discomfort of having to wear a badly fitting suit, which was our experience then, has no longer to be borne. But it was a small sacrifice to bear for the great joy which the spirit gave those of us who were there in those times.
I am not particularly keen to pursue this any further at this stage. I cant’t see that it is really helping anyone. What I have said earlier deals with what are to me the important realities - interior life and apostolate of ordinary Christians. There is so much to be done.
Michael.

 

[Faithdancer]

No Julia I am not a priest. If you read that major tome, The Canonical Path of Opus Dei you will get a good idea of how the letter of the law of the pre-prelature days did not really match the spirit of what Opus Dei in fact was. Thank God that is no longer the case and the discomfort of having to wear a badly fitting suit, which was our experience then, has no longer to be borne. But it was a small sacrifice to bear for the great joy which the spirit gave those of us who were there in those times.
I am not particularly keen to pursue this any further at this stage. I cant’t see that it is really helping anyone. What I have said earlier deals with what are to me the important realities - interior life and apostolate of ordinary Christians. There is so much to be done.
Michael.

Well God bless you for your lifelong involvement in the Work, Michael! Nearly 50 years? That is awesome! Pax Christi!

 

[Faithdancer]

Since I see that someone here has already brought up ODAN, I will comment on them. Before I can take any organization seriously, the published materials of that organization- whether on the Internet or elsewhere- need to be coherent and free of major errors in grammar, punctuation and syntax. Unfortunately that is not the case with ODAN. This, in conjunction with writing that is sensationalist and inflammatory in tone, means that I cannot take ODAN seriously.

I should add that my personal experience in attending nearly a dozen Evenings of Recollection, coupled with lengthy conversations with both priests and members of Opus Dei, completely belies the ODAN scare stories. Further, a perusal of the ODAN website leads me to believe that it is operated primarily by a single family who are aggressively critical of Opus Dei, and who for some reason can’t stand the fact that there are very, very many happy and productive members and cooperators of Opus Dei.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Since I see that someone here has already brought up ODAN, I will comment on them. Before I can take any organization seriously, the published materials of that organization- whether on the Internet or elsewhere- need to be coherent and free of major errors in grammar, punctuation and syntax. Unfortunately that is not the case with ODAN.

Could you leave a link to the bad grammar? And, after all, there are many posts on CAF with poor grammar, punctuation and syntax. But we don’t disrespect posters because of that.

I should add that my personal experience in attending nearly a dozen Evenings of Recollection, coupled with lengthy conversations with both priests and members of Opus Dei, completely belies the ODAN scare stories.

You know Opus Dei members familiar with the people who have reported their experiences to ODAN? Or did you just mean you had a nice time as opposed to what some report? I suppose one of them could post that their years-long nightmare experience in Opus Dei belies all the sunshine and roses portrayals in this thread. They are not reporting attending a retreat or having a conversation, they are reporting on what it is like to be a fully committed lay person who gave up everything to live in an Opus Dei Center and serve for years at a time, day in and day out. So those experiences are going to be quantitatively different from your type of contact.

But neither is a fully balanced view of the facts. It’s like the Church: yes, some people were abused by priests as children or adults. Their experiences are true and horrendous. Other people have had wonderful experiences in the Church with clergy. Their experiences are true and uplifting.

Opus Dei seems to mirror this pattern, which means neither blanket endorsement nor blanket condemnation is very useful.

Further, a perusal of the ODAN website leads me to believe that it is operated primarily by a single family

This is not difficult to figure out as the woman who started and maintains it explains quite openly who she is and why she does it, although she didn’t do it alone. It is also a 501(c)3 non-profit organization and has been extant for about 20 years. This is not one person with an ax to grind or there would not be dozens of testimonies sent by former members, and those only on this English-language site. There are dozens more at OpusLibros. I believe there is a site in Portugese also, but I’ve never looked for it.

No one’s single testimony is definitive. All testimonies can be useful in information-gathering.

 

[Wampa]

In trying to parse through this thread and make sense of the information provided on a topic I am interested in, I am wondering if Mark could add some clarification.

Luigi had asked: “Mark, Are you still Catholic? I see “Other””

You replied:

Of course that I’m catholic, if not I would not be participating of this blog. Telling the truth is very catholic…

Can you explain? If you are Catholic, what are we supposed to understand from the fact that you are listing Religion = Other? I think most people would rationally understand that to mean not Catholic at the very least (perhaps even not Christian; since we don’t know what Other is in relation to, exactly). Is there something else you intend by that label?

I ask because, for me, sourcing plays a significant role in how I process information and what level of weight I give to various data. You’ve said quite a bit in this thread that I’m trying to process. If you could clarify where you’re coming from in this respect, it would help. Thanks!