question about Opus Dei

[Julia_Mae]

Here is a link that answers FAQ? I don’t see what so hard about emailing them like they ask to tell you your nearest center? %between%

Here is a link that answers FAQ? I don’t see what so hard about emailing them like they ask to tell you your nearest center?

And I don’t see why in 2012, it’s so hard to just post the locations of the Centers, as someone else here said they had.

The Constitutions of religious Orders and their locations: online. The Canons of the Catholic Church and the time and location of every Diocesan Mass in the US: online.

The Code of Opus Dei is secret by their own statutes - it is their law.

Y’all keep trying to prove that it isn’t because you know, let’s see: one person who’s number you have. Someone here said these recollections and silent retreats have no time for questions. So what is it that is known?

It’s like this thread. The Original Poster starts a thread on Opus Dei. Then she pretty much disappears until she comes back and says “thanks for the answers, especially the ones in PM.” Now this happens in every one of these threads. Someone asks, and they get PMed instead of folks just posting their responses openly as they do in the other threads.

This is important, the point of the threads, of the whole of CAF, is to make public information about the Church.

You’ve been PMed, right? Anyone gossip about others posting in the thread, anyone say anything you ended up posting but they won’t come in here themselves?

WHY is it a secret if it’s not a secret? I think its’ because this information will not bear scrutiny. Tell me I’m wrong about this.

 

[Julia_Mae]

This is not as sinister as you (maybe inadvertantly) make it sound. How is this any different than what is expected of any lay brother of any movement within the Church?

I don’t know, but I’m pretty sure Secular Fransciscans aren’t signing over their paychecks. I guess I don’t know what you mean. Can you give me an example of a lay brotherhood that is the same?

 

[Marauder]

I don’t know, but I’m pretty sure Secular Fransciscans aren’t signing over their paychecks. I guess I don’t know what you mean. Can you give me an example of a lay brotherhood that is the same?

I think where he was going is that it seems you are confusing lay/ordained vs. religious/secular. A lay brother would be someone who took religious vows but is not ordained.

A religious brother with a “job” in most traditional Order would be turning over all/most money to the Order depending on the rules of the Association/Order/community.

No Secular Franciscans are not turning over their paychecks.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I’m not sure what you mean - I have not relocated anywhere, I’m in the same place I’ve always been.

RCTV moved and took a new name, there were all these Vortex episodes about the new digs. I didn’t mean you, personally, I just figured it must finally be done and y’all are in there by now. No? .

As for Michael Voris - I do know. He’s not affiliated with Opus Dei. Period. You keep saying this, but saying it does not make it true.

No one saying anything makes it true, Liza, except Jesus, I suppose. And he is affiliated with Opus Dei. Period. He is financed by a Supernumerary, your Center is administrated under one in Indiana. Of course, without his own Center Director’s approval, he can’t tell anyone he is. Didn’t you wonder why your Oratory was blessed by an out-of-town Bishop and your own Archbishop didn’t even know it existed?

You really should be consistent and use the same name - instead of being Curious Catholic somewhere else, and Julia Mae here. Doesn’t it get confusing?

You’re off-topic, but do you have a link to that? Curious thread participants want to know!

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I don’t know, but I’m pretty sure Secular Fransciscans aren’t signing over their paychecks. I guess I don’t know what you mean. Can you give me an example of a lay brotherhood that is the same?

I would imagine that religious Franciscans are. Any money they make belongs to the community.

EDIT: Marauder beat me to it.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I think where he was going is that it seems you are confusing lay/ordained vs. religious/secular. A lay brother would be someone who took religious vows but is not ordained.

A religious brother with a “job” in most traditional Order would be turning over all/most money to the Order depending on the rules of the Association/Order/community…

The laity who are associated with Opus Dei are not religious in any way. They do not change their Canonical status, not Numeraries, Associates, Supernumeraries, none of them. They do not associate themselves with the Prelature by vows, or any recognized by the Church ceremonies.

The actual members of the Prelature, the priests, are secular priests, but I was not referring to them.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I would imagine that religious Franciscans are. Any money they make belongs to the community…

I’m sure. But the laity that associate themselves with Opus Dei are not religious, not in any sense. Here on this page you can find Ut Sit and the norms JPII put into place.

If some members of the laity choose to live in Centers and so forth, this does not change their Canonical status. Now, this is what they choose to do. And I’m not criticizing that. That’s between them and the Prelature. But what they should be told and apparently are not, is that there is nothing the Prelature has to do for them in return.

Religious are required to be cared for by their Orders.

 

[Marauder]

The laity who are associated with Opus Dei are not religious in any way. They do not change their Canonical status, not Numeraries, Associates, Supernumeraries, none of them. They do not associate themselves with the Prelature by vows, or any recognized by the Church ceremonies.

The actual members of the Prelature, the priests, are secular priests, but I was not referring to them.

I think the point Luigi Daniele is making, and he has to speak for himself, is that just like a religious brother of most Orders, Associations, etc. turns over all/most of their paycheck to the Order/Association/etc.a member of Opus Dei does the same thing. Whether they made perpetual vows or not. I assume they know it going in and choose to do so as part of becoming a single member of Opus Dei.

Disclaimer: I am in no way an expert on Opus Dei. Just reading what has been posted on the last few pages of this thread and did a little research when I was discerning joining SFO/OFS and a few other groups several years ago.

 

[Edward_H]

Didn’t you wonder why your Oratory was blessed by an out-of-town Bishop and your own Archbishop didn’t even know it existed?

Where did you get that? The first thing a visiting Opus Dei priest does when he re-enters a diocese which has recently received a new Bishop is to line up a visit with that Bishop.

You’re saying that Opus Dei secretly builds oratories under the nose of the bishop overseeing a Diocese? Drive by assertions.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I think the point Luigi Daniele is making, and he has to speak for himself, is that just like a religious brother of most Orders, Associations, etc. turns over all/most of their paycheck to the Order/Association/etc.a member of Opus Dei does the same thing. Whether they made perpetual vows or not. I assume they know it going in and choose to do so as part of becoming a single member of Opus Dei…

Well, that’s the question. According to many testimonies I have read from former lay persons of OD, they did not know it “going in.” This is my issue: if you are going to make what is considered a lifelong commitment, then I think you get to know all before you do. I think Mark, who is a former Numerary, made this very point: he didn’t know what was expected of him before he went in.

My other issue is this: a religious brother gives all to his Order or whatever, but they care for him until death and after. The Church demands it. But not so for any lay person in Opus Dei. So, if you give away all your paychecks, you might have some meager Social Security for your old age, but no savings, nothing but the clothes on your back when you leave or they escort you out.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Where did you get that? The first thing a visiting Opus Dei priest…

I didn’t say it was an Opus Dei priest.

And you really have no idea what an Opus Dei priest does when entering a Diocese, I don’t think, Edward. How would you? Opus Dei is run by priests. They travel around all the time on various errands, and they aren’t stopping in every single Diocese to greet the Bishop. So, where do you get your information, because I’d like to know if this is a new requirement. I guarantee you it’s not in the Statutes.

However, it is in the Code that Centers can be erected without the knowledge or permission of the local Bishop. Did you need a link?

 

[Edward_H]

But not so for any lay person in Opus Dei.

Stop spewing out grossly incorrect statements like a machine gun.

 

[Edward_H]

I didn’t say it was an Opus Dei priest.

And you really have no idea what an Opus Dei priest does when entering a Diocese, I don’t think, Edward. How would you? Opus Dei is run by priests. They travel around all the time on various errands, and they aren’t stopping in every single Diocese to greet the Bishop. So, where do you get your information, because I’d like to know if this is a new requirement. I guarantee you it’s not in the Statutes.

However, it is in the Code that Centers can be erected without the knowledge or permission of the local Bishop. Did you need a link?

I know because I witnessed it. The priest assigned to my area did it as soon as the Bishop could fit him on his schedule.

 

[Edward_H]

I guarantee you it’s not in the Statutes.

You’re suffering - at least - from a false assumption that everything that goes on in Opus Dei is extant in the statutes.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Stop spewing out grossly incorrect statements like a machine gun.

I see I’m going to have to start quoting whole passages from the Code of Opus Dei so you understand: Opus Dei owes nothing whatsoever to any lay person associated with it. This is clearly delineated in the Statutes, it was claimed openly by Opus Dei, itself, in a recent court action in France.

Now, I have chores and errands, but if you still doubt, I’ll be happy to post those statutes when I come back tonight, if you ask. I suggest instead you use the link and start reading through the Code, which includes both the 1950 Constitutions and the 1982 Statutes which are an addendum to them. If you want them in Latin, you can download them at ODAN. I don’t have the link but I think it’s at the site.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I know because I witnessed it. The priest assigned to my area did it as soon as the Bishop could fit him on his schedule.

Well, one guy doing one thing one time in a specific situation does not a Prelature-wide requirement make. Like I said: it’s in the Statutes. I’ll prove it later if you ask.

 

[Julia_Mae]

You’re suffering - at least - from a false assumption that everything that goes on in Opus Dei is extant in the statutes.

No, and I really do have to go after this, I am aware of the legal nature of contracts and of what OD itself has said in court and has done through testimony. BTW, what Diocese are you in?

 

[Edward_H]

I see I’m going to have to start quoting whole passages from the Code of Opus Dei so you understand: Opus Dei owes nothing whatsoever to any lay person associated with it. This is clearly delineated in the Statutes, it was claimed openly by Opus Dei, itself, in a recent court action in France.

Now, I have chores and errands, but if you still doubt, I’ll be happy to post those statutes when I come back tonight, if you ask. I suggest instead you use the link and start reading through the Code, which includes both the 1950 Constitutions and the 1982 Statutes which are an addendum to them. If you want them in Latin, you can download them at ODAN. I don’t have the link but I think it’s at the site.

See earlier point about your false assumption concerning the gross exclusivity of the Statutes…whether they were written for the Institute or the Prelature.

Please take the weekend off and read from

josemariaescriva.info/section/his-writings

escrivaworks.org/book/the_forge.htm

escrivaworks.org/book/friends_of_god.htm

If you want to get a better sense for Opus Dei, if that’s your interest, read Passionately Loving the World

escrivaworks.org/book/conversations-chapter-8.htm

 

[JillianRose]

And I don’t see why in 2012, it’s so hard to just post the locations of the Centers, as someone else here said they had.

The Constitutions of religious Orders and their locations: online. The Canons of the Catholic Church and the time and location of every Diocesan Mass in the US: online.

The Code of Opus Dei is secret by their own statutes - it is their law.

Y’all keep trying to prove that it isn’t because you know, let’s see: one person who’s number you have. Someone here said these recollections and silent retreats have no time for questions. So what is it that is known?

It’s like this thread. The Original Poster starts a thread on Opus Dei. Then she pretty much disappears until she comes back and says “thanks for the answers, especially the ones in PM.” Now this happens in every one of these threads. Someone asks, and they get PMed instead of folks just posting their responses openly as they do in the other threads.

This is important, the point of the threads, of the whole of CAF, is to make public information about the Church.

You’ve been PMed, right? Anyone gossip about others posting in the thread, anyone say anything you ended up posting but they won’t come in here themselves? Um not I just read a lot too. I don’t know anyone on this forum. I think your mad because I don’t agree with you. Some of us have lives. Some don’t even want to hear what you have to say because you sound just as fanatical as you claim OD is? Turn OFF!! Personally, I think you are apart of ODAN and are trolling this forum to “inform” people. I have a husband and kids to tend too. I hope you have the same.

WHY is it a secret if it’s not a secret? I think its’ because this information will not bear scrutiny. Tell me I’m wrong about this.

 

[JillianRose]

I would imagine that religious Franciscans are. Any money they make belongs to the community.

EDIT: Marauder beat me to it.

This is a true statement. Our school is run by Fransiscan Nuns. They can not even accept a gift unless there mother Superior approve it.