Question about possible abuse

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Soccerant19

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Right after the presentation of the gifts, the priest puts a drop of water into the “little jug” (sorry I don’t know the technical term) containing the wine, which was brought up during the presentation of the gifts. He then pours some into one chalice and leaves the rest on the altar in the jug for the rest of the consecration. After the Lamb of God, the priest then transfers the wine from the jug to other chalices to be used by the EMHCs. The jug that holds the wine, which becomes the Precious Blood, is made out of glass. I know that chalices containing the Blood can’t be made out of glass, so would this count as an abuse. And if so, should I report it?
 
Soccerant19 said:
Right after the presentation of the gifts, the priest puts a drop of water into the “little jug” (sorry I don’t know the technical term) containing the wine, which was brought up during the presentation of the gifts. He then pours some into one chalice and leaves the rest on the altar in the jug for the rest of the consecration. After the Lamb of God, the priest then transfers the wine from the jug to other chalices to be used by the EMHCs. The jug that holds the wine, which becomes the Precious Blood, is made out of glass. I know that chalices containing the Blood can’t be made out of glass, so would this count as an abuse. And if so, should I report it?
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Someone can chime in here with the proper GIRM directives, chapter and verse… but I can tell you the “unKosher” aspect of the situation isn’t that the cruets are made of glass, but that the element of the Eucharist under the appearance of wine is being transferred in this fashion, post-consecration…

Personally I don’t care for glass, but it is in some instances allowable. The abuse here of more concern is the transfer of the Eucharistic species post-consecration in the fashion you describe.
 
It is not proper to transfer the Precious blood from one container to another. That is the wine must be put into chalices BEFORE it is consecrat4ed and changed from wine into Blood.

It is never proper to leave the container that held the wine on the altar during consecration.
 
Soccerant19 said:
Right after the presentation of the gifts, the priest puts a drop of water into the “little jug” (sorry I don’t know the technical term) containing the wine, which was brought up during the presentation of the gifts. He then pours some into one chalice and leaves the rest on the altar in the jug for the rest of the consecration. After the Lamb of God, the priest then transfers the wine from the jug to other chalices to be used by the EMHCs. The jug that holds the wine, which becomes the Precious Blood, is made out of glass. I know that chalices containing the Blood can’t be made out of glass, so would this count as an abuse. And if so, should I report it?
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Two abuses have been described, which I encourage you to report.

The first, from the 2004 Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum :
“[106.] However, the pouring of the Blood of Christ after the consecration from one vessel to another is completely to be avoided, lest anything should happen that would be to the detriment of so great a mystery. …”

The second, from the same Instruction:
“[117.] Sacred vessels for containing the Body and Blood of the Lord must be made in strict conformity with the norms of tradition and of the liturgical books. … Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily.”

The jug which contains the wine at the start of Mass can be made of glass. This vessel is called a “cruet”. The cruet should not be placed on the altar in a Mass with a congregation. It is not listed as an item that can be placed on the altar in GIRM n. 306. Instead a minister (i.e. altar server) presents them, as described in GIRM n. 142.

A particularly silly thing about consecration the wine in this cruet, being brought up in the procession, is that there is poetential confusion about whether it contains the Precious Blood. An altar server could think this is wine in a cruet, and treat it accordingly, instead of realising that it is the Precious Blood.

In Mass without a congregation the cruet may be placed on the altar:
“255. Before Mass, the necessary vessels are prepared either at the credence table or on the righthand side of the altar.”

References: 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html
Redemptionis Sacramentum at vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html
 
No, you don’t report the pastor for liturgical abuse.
Purchase a tray for the chalices used for distribution at communion. See the liturgical committee chair to have the altar servers trained to bring the chalices to the altar and then to pour from the vessel into the chalices at the offertory. Now you have unconsecrated wine and water mixture in gold-plated chalices in preparation for the consecration.
I remember pouring the wine into the chalice as an altar boy and Father adding the water. This is the same thing so not in violation of any rules.

Matthew
 
Soccerant19 said:
After the Lamb of God, the priest then transfers the wine from the jug to other chalices to be used by the EMHCs. The jug that holds the wine, which becomes the Precious Blood, is made out of glass. I know that chalices containing the Blood can’t be made out of glass, so would this count as an abuse. And if so, should I report it?
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Before you report these two abuses (the use of glass and the pouring of the Precious Blood from one vessel to another) please speak with the priest (or your pastor) and let them know about the practices first. If the priest (or pastor) can take care of the situation, give him the chance to.
 
drafdog said:
… have the altar servers trained to bring the chalices to the altar and then to pour from the vessel into the chalices at the offertory. Now you have unconsecrated wine and water mixture in gold-plated chalices in preparation for the consecration.
I remember pouring the wine into the chalice as an altar boy and Father adding the water. This is the same thing so not in violation of any rules.

Matthew
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It is a violation of the rules. From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“142. After this, as the minister presents the cruets, the priest stands at the side of the altar and pours wine and a little water into the chalice, saying quietly, Per huius aquae (By the mystery of this water).”
That is for Mass Without a Deacon.

For Mass With a Deacon, then it is the deacon’s job. From the GIRM:
“178. After the Prayer of the Faithful, while the priest remains at the chair, the deacon prepares the altar, assisted by the acolyte, but it is the deacon’s place to take care of the sacred vessels himself. He also assists the priest in receiving the people’s gifts. Next, he hands the priest the paten with the bread to be consecrated, pours wine and a little water into the chalice, saying quietly, Per huius aquae (By the mystery of this water), and after this presents the chalice to the priest. He may also carry out the preparation of the chalice at the credence table.”
 
drafdog said:
No, you don’t report the pastor for liturgical abuse.
Purchase a tray for the chalices used for distribution at communion. See the liturgical committee chair to have the altar servers trained to bring the chalices to the altar and then to pour from the vessel into the chalices at the offertory. Now you have unconsecrated wine and water mixture in gold-plated chalices in preparation for the consecration.
I remember pouring the wine into the chalice as an altar boy and Father adding the water. This is the same thing so not in violation of any rules.

Matthew
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I do believe that you are wrong on this one.
 
Ok I appreciate all the advice. Maybe I should have clarified this before, but the Church I was talking about is at my college, which is run by Jesuits. At the Masses, there are no deacons or altar serves. It’s just the priest. I’m going to go talk to one of the priests on campus and see what he says.
 
So here’s an added question: does the wine in the cruet also become the Precious Blood during consecration if it is sitting on the altar. In other words what is the determining factor in what bread and wine becomes consecrated - intent or placement?
 
Beno said:
So here’s an added question: does the wine in the cruet also become the Precious Blood during consecration if it is sitting on the altar. In other words what is the determining factor in what bread and wine becomes consecrated - intent or placement?
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Intent. If the priest intends to consecrate the wine that’s in the cruet or flagon then that wine becomes the Precious Blood. If he doesn’t intend it to be consecrated, it isn’t.
 
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