Question about praying for the dead

[Tommy999]

As far as I know, although the Church does not officially ask the souls in Purgatory to pray for us in her liturgies, it does not forbid Catholics from privately praying to the souls in Purgatory.

The canonization process of a saint, which ordinarily requires two after-death miracles attributed to his or her intercession, seems to require that people ask the deceased person to pray for them before it is known that he or she is in heaven.

According to the old Catholic Encyclopedia, in the section on “Invocation of souls” in the article on “Purgatory,” the jury is still out on whether or not we may ask the souls in Purgatory to pray for us. It says, in part:
Do the souls in purgatory pray for us? May we call upon them in our needs? There is no decision of the Church on this subject, nor have the theologians pronounced with definiteness concerning the invocation of the souls in purgatory and their intercession for the living. In the ancient liturgies there are no prayers of the Church directed to those who are still in purgatory. On the tombs of the early Christians nothing is more common than a prayer or a supplication asking the departed to intercede with God for surviving friends, but these inscriptions seem always to suppose that the departed one is already with God. St. Thomas [Aquinas] (II-II.83.11) denies that the souls in purgatory pray for the living, and states they are not in a position to pray for us, rather we must make intercession for them. Despite the authority of St. Thomas, many renowned theologians hold that the souls in purgatory really pray for us, and that we may invoke their aid. (source)

The story Jesus told of the rich man and Lazarus suggests that even those in torment in the afterlife can intercede for the living. (Luke 16:27-28)

If memory serves, recently canonized St Padre Pio routinely sought the intercession of the souls in Purgatory. I found this quote online attributed to him:
The souls in Purgatory pray for us, and their prayers are even more effective than ours, because they are accompanied by their suffering. So, let’s pray for them, and let’s pray them to pray for us. (source)

In this video, Catholic Answers apologist Tim Staples answers in the affirmative the question, Can the souls in Purgatory pray for us?

Thanks, Todd. This definitely helps.

 

[Tommy999]

Good question Tommy. But actually, nothing particular has to happen. The Church in her liturgy usually only invokes those who are canonized, bur we can ask for a loved one’s intercession even if they are not officially canonized by the Church. I’ve prayed for the repose of my friend’s soul and then said “hey, pray for me too.” All Christians - those in heaven, earth and purgatory - are all part of the one Body of Christ and so we all can pray for each other.

As far as closure goes, you probably have already heard this before, but I just want to emphasize that purgatory is not a separate destination from heaven, but more of a “front porch” so to speak. What this means is even though we are praying that the dead person will be cleansed and able to enter Heaven, we aren’t worried about their ultimate salvation. Their destiny is decided.

So even though I still pray for my friend because I’m not sure if she still needs purification, I do have closure, because I know she is in the hands of a loving God. I’m not worried about her eternal destination. It’s possible that she is not in heaven at all and is actually in hell, but that would be a possibility even if I didn’t believe in purgatory. In other words, belief in purgatory doesn’t add any uncertainty to the fate of our loved ones.

I just wanted to mention this in case you may have thought we were worried about our loved ones when we pray. That’s not the case. We pray out of love to help them if they need it, but ultimately we entrust them to God’s mercy.

Thanks, Robyn. I can relate very much to this.

First of all, the analogy of the front porch is very helpful. I don’t know much about purgatory. My concept was of it was a “land of limbo” waiting room kind of place that is neither heaven or hell where people are constantly being burned with fire until their time is up. In other words, a place of pain but with an ultimate ticket to heaven – at some point.

Your reference on praying out of love instead of from worry is helpful, also. It sounds like preciseness is not required. In other words, “I’ll pray for you and you pray for me” may not always be accurate if the other person is already in heaven, but it would be if they were in purgatory, and since we may not know for sure, it’s ok not to know for sure, if I interpret you correctly.

I must admit that there appears to be more a familial feel to Catholicism than in my current faith tradition and I find that appealing. In other words, we’re all in this thing together and we all help each other versus of a more individualistic approach where I fend for myself with God and you fend for yourself with God, too, although we can pray for one another.

One further question:
If a person dies and at the judgment seat of Christ is sent to purgatory, the prayers of others can help him achieve heaven quicker, if I understand the Catholic teaching correctly.

However, no amount of prayer can change things for someone who was sent to hell, right? In other words, someone like Adolph Hitler cannot have his fate changed once he is sent to hell – no matter how many people pray for him, correct?

 

[Robyn_p]

Thanks, Robyn. I can relate very much to this.

First of all, the analogy of the front porch is very helpful. I don’t know much about purgatory. My concept was of it was a “land of limbo” waiting room kind of place that is neither heaven or hell where people are constantly being burned with fire until their time is up. In other words, a place of pain but with an ultimate ticket to heaven – at some point.

Your reference on praying out of love instead of from worry is helpful, also. It sounds like preciseness is not required. In other words, “I’ll pray for you and you pray for me” may not always be accurate if the other person is already in heaven, but it would be if they were in purgatory, and since we may not know for sure, it’s ok not to know for sure, if I interpret you correctly.

Yep that’s it.

I must admit that there appears to be more a familial feel to Catholicism than in my current faith tradition and I find that appealing. In other words, we’re all in this thing together and we all help each other versus of a more individualistic approach where I fend for myself with God and you fend for yourself with God, too, although we can pray for one another.

Yes that’s what the communion of saints is all about really. We’re all linked together in Christ, and we all can help each other. None of us are on our own.

One further question:
If a person dies and at the judgment seat of Christ is sent to purgatory, the prayers of others can help him achieve heaven quicker, if I understand the Catholic teaching correctly.

However, no amount of prayer can change things for someone who was sent to hell, right? In other words, someone like Adolph Hitler cannot have his fate changed once he is sent to hell – no matter how many people pray for him, correct?

Right. Judgment is final. If you are in hell, that’s it.

That said, the Church encourages us to pray for all who have died, even horrible sinners like Hitler. Because they could have repented at their last moment of life and asked God to forgive them, and as a result, they could be in purgatory.

I will say, that’s hard to do. To pray for someone who did evil things in their life. Most of the time I don’t want to. But I try to remember that Christ told us to pray for and love our enemies, and that would include after their death as well. That’s another benefit to praying for the dead. It’s a good exercise in charity.

 

[Tommy999]

Yep that’s it.

Yes that’s what the communion of saints is all about really. We’re all linked together in Christ, and we all can help each other. None of us are on our own.

Right. Judgment is final. If you are in hell, that’s it.

That said, the Church encourages us to pray for all who have died, even horrible sinners like Hitler. Because they could have repented at their last moment of life and asked God to forgive them, and as a result, they could be in purgatory.

I will say, that’s hard to do. To pray for someone who did evil things in their life. Most of the time I don’t want to. But I try to remember that Christ told us to pray for and love our enemies, and that would include after their death as well. That’s another benefit to praying for the dead. It’s a good exercise in charity.

Thanks, Robyn.