Question about praying to the Saints

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smsulliva

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I was born and raised a Catholic I have struggled with this believe all of my life. I just don’t understand praying to Saint’s and the purpose of saints. As it is said in Exodus:

“And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. "You shall have no other gods before me. "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:1-6‬ ‭ESV‬‬
bible.com/59/exo.20.1-6.env

Isn’t by having statues of saints in the church and praying to the Saints against the 10 commandments? Are we not breaking the first commandment? The Catholic Church started having Saints and statues there it was not said in the Bible to do this. So I am confused. Please explain Have this cannot be sin.
 
smsulliva said:
I was born and raised a Catholic I have struggled with this believe all of my life. I just don’t understand praying to Saint’s and the purpose of saints. As it is said in Exodus:

“And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. "You shall have no other gods before me. "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:1-6‬ ‭ESV‬‬
bible.com/59/exo.20.1-6.env

Isn’t by having statues of saints in the church and praying to the Saints against the 10 commandments? Are we not breaking the first commandment? The Catholic Church started having Saints and statues there it was not said in the Bible to do this. So I am confused. Please explain Have this cannot be sin.
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Common misconception that is constantly used against Catholics.
Like the above poster said, there is plenty of good material countering this argument.

Short summary: We are not praying to the saints, we are asking them to pray for us.
It is the exact same thing as someone on earth approaching you and asking them to say a prayer for them or an intention.

The saints are much closer to God than we are right now, and we need all the help we can get
 
Thank you for responding. Those do help me understand better. Can you help me understand where we as Catholics can make someone into a saint? I dont see anywhere in the Bible about that. (confused)
 
smsulliva said:
I was born and raised a Catholic I have struggled with this believe all of my life. I just don’t understand praying to Saint’s and the purpose of saints. As it is said in Exodus:

“And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. "You shall have no other gods before me. "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:1-6‬ ‭ESV‬‬
bible.com/59/exo.20.1-6.env

Isn’t by having statues of saints in the church and praying to the Saints against the 10 commandments? Are we not breaking the first commandment? The Catholic Church started having Saints and statues there it was not said in the Bible to do this. So I am confused. Please explain Have this cannot be sin.
Click to expand...
Right. Some day you are having some difficulties and you say to your Mom, “Hey Mom, would you mind saying a prayer for me?”

Is that worshipping your Mom as a Godess?

No it isn’t. Asking a friend to pray for you is not worshipping your friend.

And your friends on earth continue to pray for you in heaven.

Is having photos of your Mom in your house a worship of your Mom? No it isn’t. It’s simply just a reminder of your friendship.

Is having a poster of your favourite author, singer or actor an act of worship?
Not if you are using it just as an act of inspiration to be a better person and imitate the values you admire in that person.
 
Saint,s take our pray,s too God, for what we need their help for.
 
We pray to God WITH the Saints… Simple distinction, but way more accurate in terms of what we happens.
 
smsulliva said:
I was born and raised a Catholic I have struggled with this believe all of my life. I just don’t understand praying to Saint’s and the purpose of saints. As it is said in Exodus:

“And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. "You shall have no other gods before me. "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:1-6‬ ‭ESV‬‬
bible.com/59/exo.20.1-6.env

Isn’t by having statues of saints in the church and praying to the Saints against the 10 commandments? Are we not breaking the first commandment? The Catholic Church started having Saints and statues there it was not said in the Bible to do this. So I am confused. Please explain Have this cannot be sin.
Click to expand...
Thanks for asking:thumbsup:

The short answer in NO and here’s WHY:

GOD [YAHWEH] HIMSELF COMMANDED MOSES TO BUILD FOR HIM “OTHER gods”

**Exodus 25” 16-20 **
“And thou shalt put in the ark the testimony which I will give thee. Thou shalt make also a propitiatory of the purest gold: the length thereof shall be two cubits and a half, and the breadth a cubit and a half. Thou shalt make also two cherubims [A CLASS OF ANGELS] of beaten gold, on the two sides of the oracle. Let one cherub be on the one side, and the other on the other. Let them cover both sides of the propitiatory, spreading their wings, and covering the oracle, and let them look one towards the other, their faces being turned towards the propitiatory wherewith the ark is to be covered
.
Numbers 21:8
And the Lord said to him: Make brazen serpent, and set it up for a sign: whosoever being struck shall look on it, shall live.

FROM THESE 2 EXAMPLES WE ARE TO DISCERN

That according to GOD Himself; it is NOT the object; NO it is the intended USE & Purpose of that object that determines If it a Good or an Evil object:)

**ANYTHING that can [has the potential] to lead souls to GOD and a closer relationship with Christ is GOOD

ANYTHING that actually competes with God and leads Souls away from Christ is EVIL**

Here are a few critically important things to understand about Praying to Mary & Saints
  1. ALL Catholic Prayers ARE intended to END with God
  2. **While it is grammatically correct to claim that we Catholic Do “pray “TO” Mary & the Saints; it is FAR more accurate to understand that what we ARE doing is actually praying “THROUGH” Mary [Mother of God” & the saints **
  3. Why then do Catholic freely choose to do this?
A: Because it benefits US!

Mary & and the Saints ARE have attained the Beatific Vision [ARE in God’s actual Divine presence in Heaven]

They take OUR prayers and petitions and then on our behalf personally ADD their own prayers ON TOP of our and then PERSONALLY present them to God for US; aming them far more efficacious. [effective**

Two additional FACTS are relative to this discussion

1 Lk 1:42-50

" And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. [45] And blessed art thou that hast believed, because those things shall be accomplished that were spoken to thee by the Lord. **And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord. And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name. And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him.
**
  1. The Hail Mary; by a HUGE margin is the most often recited Marian Prayer and it IS SOLIDLY biblically grounded:)
This discussion would be incomplete without an explanation of WHY we do what we do. To try to make the issue clear we will use the ”HAILMARY” [used in the Rosary] prayer, which is by far the most used prayer next to the LORDS PAYER, as our example of what we Catholics actually do, and why we do it.

Hail Mary, [Lk. 1:28]
Full of Grace Lk. 1:28]
The Lord is with thee [Lk 1:27]
Blessed are you among all women [Lk 1:42]
And Blessed in the fruit of your womb: Jesus [Lk. 1;42]
Holy Mary [Lk.1: 28]
Mother of God Lk 1:35
Pray for us sinners [our catholic petition]
Now and at the hour of our death
Amen I- BELIEVE!]

SUMMARY:

Praying THROUGH Mary & the Saints is a GOOD thing as it CAN lead SOULS CLOSER to God

Doing this adds to the effectiveness of our prayer [a GOOD thing]

Doing so in NO WAY competes with God; just the opposite

Pray much!

GBY

Patrick**
 
smsulliva said:
Thank you for responding. Those do help me understand better. Can you help me understand where we as Catholics can make someone into a saint? I dont see anywhere in the Bible about that. (confused)
Click to expand...
Catholics, or really the Catholic Church, doesn’t ‘make someone into a Saint’. A Saint is someone who cooperated with God’s grace to achieve holiness and obtain Heaven. When the Catholic Church formally declares someone to be a Saint they are simply recognizing the life of holiness that person led.

Both questions you ask are asked with a troubling premise. You seem to be asking where in the Bible these practices are justified. It seems you might be supposing that only if something is explicitly found in the Bible can it be good practice. I could ask where in the Bible does it say everything you believe or do should be found in the Bible? You won’t find such a passage. The Catholic Faith teaches that we follow Sacred Tradition which includes Holy Scripture but also the teachings of the Church. The Church has always taught and practiced that praying to the saints, really asking for their intercession, is a worthy practice.
 
quote
Originally Posted by smsulliva View Post
Thank you for responding. Those do help me understand better. Can you help me understand where we as Catholics can make someone into a saint? I dont see anywhere in the Bible about that. (confused) end quote
exnihilo said:
Catholics, or really the Catholic Church, doesn’t ‘make someone into a Saint’. A Saint is someone who cooperated with God’s grace to achieve holiness and obtain Heaven. When the Catholic Church formally declares someone to be a Saint they are simply recognizing the life of holiness that person led.

Both questions you ask are asked with a troubling premise. You seem to be asking where in the Bible these practices are justified. It seems you might be supposing that only if something is explicitly found in the Bible can it be good practice. I could ask where in the Bible does it say everything you believe or do should be found in the Bible? You won’t find such a passage. The Catholic Faith teaches that we follow Sacred Tradition which includes Holy Scripture but also the teachings of the Church. The Church has always taught and practiced that praying to the saints, really asking for their intercession, is a worthy practice.
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Thank you! Very well done!

Personally I don’t see what the 'big-deal" is here.

Surely there ARE Souls that do make it to heaven; AND in the RCC process of “Canonization” the NORM is the 2 miracles must be independently verified [BUT the Pope can overrule this as its a “Church PRACTICE”]

So it is GOD who preforms the miracles and it is GOD who makes the final determination of SAINTHOOD:thumbsup:

GBY

Patrick
 
smsulliva said:
Isn’t by having statues of saints in the church and praying to the Saints against the 10 commandments? Are we not breaking the first commandment? The Catholic Church started having Saints and statues there it was not said in the Bible to do this. So I am confused. Please explain Have this cannot be sin.
Click to expand...
There were statues and images in the Temple. This was commanded by God Himself. Ezekiel 41, as a random example, tells of carved cherubs with one face of a man and another of a lion.

Having statues isn’t forbidden. Worshiping or, more precisely, adoring statues as if they were gods is forbidden … and was a massive reason that Israel was allowed to be taken away into Babylon. Jeremiah had lots to say about the idiocy of treating an idol as if it were literally a god.

In terms of the Bible not commanding certain things: well, here we have an interesting problem. The Bible likewise never commands that it should be widely published and that each, individual Christian should own a copy from which they determine theology for themselves. It doesn’t say to pray about things while reading Sacred writ, and if anyone disagrees with you on some essential doctrine, then maybe they just need to pray more. Rather, it speaks of Christ founding a Church, which is then commanded to teach the world all that He taught it.
 
Isn’t by having statues of saints in the church and praying to the Saints against the 10 commandments? Are we not breaking the first commandment? The Catholic Church started having Saints and statues there it was not said in the Bible to do this. So I am confused. Please explain Have this cannot be sin.Isn’t by having statues of saints in the church and praying to the Saints against the 10 commandments? Are we not breaking the first commandment? The Catholic Church started having Saints and statues there it was not said in the Bible to do this. So I am confused. Please explain Have this cannot be sin.
Click to expand...
When we pray to saints we are also praying to God at the same time, as for statues Pope John Paul the 2 used to kiss a staue of mary all the time.

The reference God is making is to pagan Idols and gods. If there is a statue you pray to thats also causing you to pray to God and whatever saint thats depicted on the statue at the same time theres nothing wrong with that.

We have to remember that if you think about it alot of prayers people use are also glorifying God at the same time as paying tribute to the saint.

I think one would have to in a pray to the individual saint like he or she is a God by themselves for it to be sin.
 
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