Question about Prophets

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How about marriage between a man and 27 women? Your proclamation seems to leave that part out.

How about a man marrying both a woman and her daughter? Is that ordained of God? (See Lev 18:17 and Lev 20:14)

How about a man marrying a girl and her sister? Is that ordained of God? (See Lev 18:18)

Joseph Smith committed both of these abominations. Actually he married two pair of sisters

Joseph Smith certainly perished from the midst of his people, didn’t he?

The Proclamation on the Family was a slick PR move, but has little to do with the reality of Mormon history.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
Have you ever read the proclamation? My guess is no, or if you have that the lack of pologamy from it continues that, as I called it, the usual “folklore” that your claim should be part of my beliefs, and yet I submit to you — you do not know what I believe, you choose to believe the “folklore”, of which you can do so.
 
Ok…NOW we can get somewhere. What specific “Biblical Criteria” are you talking about?
The main one would be the essential role of a prophet (Ephesians 4:11-14) even since the time of Christ.
Baptism for the dead (1 Corinthians 15:29)
Baptism by full immersion.
God the Father and Jesus Christ are separate and distinct individuals.
The church must be restored by an angel from heaven (Revelation 14:6)

And before you start a counter-argment first realise that I could argue your perspective also. I know what it is you believe about these same scriptures and issues as we do, and I understand for the most part where your interpretation comes from, and how you regard these passages in relation to it.
But just because I understand what you say, doesn’t mean I agree with it.
 
Have you ever read the proclamation? My guess is no, or if you have that the lack of pologamy from it continues that, as I called it, the usual “folklore” that your claim should be part of my beliefs, and yet I submit to you — you do not know what I believe, you choose to believe the “folklore”, of which you can do so.
Of course I’ve read it. I don’t think you understood my post.

My point is that the Proclamation was a PR move that tries to paint the LDS church as a defender of monogamy, when its history shows that its founders were no such thing.
 
The main one would be the essential role of a prophet (Ephesians 4:11-14) even since the time of Christ.

Read it again. It was a very specific situation. Y’all took it out of context. Even more, the verse does NOT say that prophets would continue indefinitely.

Baptism for the dead (1 Corinthians 15:29)

Another verse taken out of context. Read it again. Read it in the context of all Paul said. Show me any other verse or archaeological locations where it was done. It wasn’t, except in error.

Baptism by full immersion.

Could you please show me in the Bible where it said someone HAD to be baptized by immersion? You are committing the sin of adding to the Bible here. In fact, there is pretty good evidence that immersion was not always done. Show me your verse

God the Father and Jesus Christ are separate and distinct individuals.

How can that be when Joseph taught God is Spirit and Jesus is flesh (Lectures on Faith, Lecture 5). Jesus and God are two parts of the Trinity. You are guilty of the sin of trying to put God in a box that you can understand

The church must be restored by an angel from heaven (Revelation 14:6)

Jesus does not need any help. You are, as usual, misreading the Bible. Peter warns that the Bible is not for private interpretation. Be very careful

And before you start a counter-argment first realise that I could argue your perspective also. I know what it is you believe about these same scriptures and issues as we do, and I understand for the most part where your interpretation comes from, and how you regard these passages in relation to it.
But just because I understand what you say, doesn’t mean I agree with it.

That is ok. Some folks have disagreed with me that the sun is a star…you remind me of them
 
I am observing that the Mormon method, now that it is starting to look at Christian writers and Early Church Fathers is to apply Mormon teachings looking for a phrase that matches their mindset, then using it to prove their position while ignoring the rest of the text…

In other words, taking something out of context and making it try to say something it is not saying.

That creates a moral issue. And also questions what is the base belief of Mormonism anyway?..
 
Mormonism has split into 50+ groups - short time as a “restoration” failed out of the gate. Christ’s clarion call for unity is side tracked from the beginning. Unity is one of the 4 transcendentals & they could only hold it together for such a mere few years since their inception only to de-rail into RLDS, later the 50 other groups. On the scene of history, that was a very, very short time indeed. I don’t believe that’s what the Lord intended - a troubled, short lived “repair” job.
 
I will post it again, as Mormon_Cultist has only partially answered the questions. It is really important that you can give an answer to these questions Mormon_Cultist, as it will really help the discussion move along.

You accept that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and all that followed from him. Now, what are the specific reasons why you do not accept the following the prophets who also claim divine revelation? What are your criteria for not accepting them?
  1. Mohammed and the Qur’an
    -Why is he not credible? The Qur’an claims to be the truth in its very pages, just as your scriptures do. Why are they not true? How do we know that Mohammed is not God’s final messenger to mankind?
  2. Ellen G. White
    -Why is she not credible?> She too claims that she had visions of God and heaven, and even the end of the world. She started her own movement, the Seventh-Day Adventists. Why are they wrong, and how do you know? Why are you not a member of the SDA church that claims to be the remnant church of Christ on earth?
  3. Herbert W. Armstrong
    -Started the Worldwide Church of God movement and claimed to be a prophet, indeed, a kind of latter-day Elijah. Why are his prophecies wrong? Why is the Church of God movement not the true church? Why are you not a believer in Armstrong’s prophecies and teachings?
  4. George Fox
    -Founded the Quaker movement. How do you know that his mystical experiences were erroneous? Why are you not a Quaker?
  5. Charles Taze Russell
    -Started the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Claimed to be a mouthpiece for Christ. Why are you not JW, as they decried the doctrine of the Trinity as well, and claimed to be the true church too? On what grounds do you reject Russell and his movement?
  6. Emanuel Swedenborg
    Esoteric visionary, theologian, and mystic who claimed all sorts of new teachings. Why is he not credible? Why are you not a member of the Swedenborgian church? Are his visions false, and if so, how do you know?
Also, what do you think of the LDS groups that split from the main church? Why do you not follow any of their teachings, as some of them have prophets still claiming to speak to God, apostles, and the like. Why are they not credible, specifically? What criteria do you use to evaluate why they are not correct and your church is?
 
The main one would be the essential role of a prophet (Ephesians 4:11-14) even since the time of Christ.

Baptism for the dead (1 Corinthians 15:29)

But just because I understand what you say, doesn’t mean I agree with it.
Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?" (1 Cor. 15:29, NASB).

(carm.org/baptism-for-the-dead-in-1-corinthians-15-29)

So, let’s examine 1 Cor. 15 briefly so we can see what Paul is talking about when he mentions baptism for the dead.

In verses 1-19, the fact of Christ’s resurrection is detailed by Paul. Beginning in verse 20 and going through verse 23, Paul speaks about the order of the resurrection. Christ was the first one raised - in a glorified body - and next will be those who are His at His return. Verses 24 - 29 then mention Christ’s reign and the abolition of death. This is when this controversial verse occurs: “Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?”

Just north of Corinth was a city named Eleusis. This was the location of a pagan religion where baptism in the sea was practiced to guarantee a good afterlife. This religion was mentioned by Homer in Hymn to Demeter 478-79.1 The Corinthians were known to be heavily influenced by other customs. After all, they were in a large economic area where a great many different people frequented. It is probable that the Corinthians were being influenced by the religious practices found at Eleusis where baptism for the dead was practiced.

Paul used this example from the pagans in 1 Cor. 15:29, when he said, “…if the dead are not raised, then why are they baptized for the dead?” Paul did not say we.2

This is significant because the Christian church was not practicing baptism for the dead, but the pagans were.

Paul’s point was simple. The resurrection is a reality. It is going to happen when Jesus returns. Even the pagans believe in the resurrection, otherwise, why would they baptize for the dead?

However, some are not convinced by this argument and state that the word “they” is not in the Greek and, therefore, Paul is not speaking about the pagans. Let’s take a look.

Literally, the verse is translated as “Since what will do the being immersed on behalf of the dead if wholly dead not are raised why also are they immersed on behalf of them.”

The issue here is the word, “baptizontai” – “they are baptized.” It is the present, passive, indicative, 3rd person, plural. In other words, it is THEY ARE BEING BAPTIZED or, THEY ARE BAPTIZED.
Code:
I -- first person singular
you (singular) -- second person singular
he/she/it -- third person singular
we -- first person plural
you (plural) -- second person plural
they -- third person plural
It is the latter form, the third person plural (they) in which the verb “baptizo” is found. Therefore, the best translation is “THEY are baptized.”

Well, M_C…the LDS are using a pagan practice…for baptizing the dead.

So is part of the LDS restoration a restoration of pagan practices?
 
The church must be restored by an angel from heaven (Revelation 14:6)

.
Let us tackle this one…(comparing-views.com/)

Revelation 14:6-7 is not describing the angel Moroni bringing the gospel to Joseph Smith as Mormonism teaches but is describing angels proclaiming imminent judgment, the everlasting gospel is the good news that God’s eternal reign is about to begin (NAB Revelation 14:6-7). Ezekiel 37 is not a prophecy about the Book of Mormon as Mormonism teaches (LDS Ensign, Feb 1987). The symbolic action of joining two sticks into one signifies the future union of Israel and Judah under one messianic King (NAB Ezekiel 37). Joseph translated the Book of Mormon by “put the seer stone into a hat and put his face in the hat” (LDS GP Chap 10; LDS Ensign, Sep 1977). The Bible reveals that a false prophet can come in sheep’s clothing and can show a great sign like the Book of Mormon to deceive many (Matt 24:11,24; Matt 7:15). Mormons say that John 10:16 refers to Jews who allegedly migrated to South America around 600 B.C… " Most Catholic biblical scholars, following the teaching of the early Church Fathers, agree that the “other sheep” are the Gentiles, to whom the gospel was sent after the Jews rejected Christ (Rom 11:11-12)." (Catholic Answers)

Jesus taught that we can know the truth by continuing in his words (John.8:31-32). In the Bible "they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts.17:11). As we search the Holy Scriptures to determine whether things are so we can “ask of God” if we “lack wisdom” (James.1:5), “the Holy Ghost … shall teach you all things” (John.14:26). The Book of Mormon comes from the alleged prophet Joseph Smith, he was given gold plates by an angel and Joseph Smith translated them by putting a “seer stone into a hat and put his face in the hat” (LDS Ensign, Sep 1977). The Bible warns us that an angel from heaven can preach a different gospel than what the apostles preached (Gal.1:6-8).

The Bible reveals some will give "heed to seducing spirits (1Tim.4:1), “for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light” (2Cor.11:14). A testimony is based on personal revelation which is subjective, scripture tells us that “the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets” (1Cor.14:32). Feelings are not based on scripture, using scripture is greater than using “feelings”, “the witness of God is greater” than the witness of a man (1John.5:9). Holy Scripture is the inspired word of God (2Tim.3:16). Mormons testify that the Book of Mormon is true; the Bible testifies that the Book of Mormon is false since it “pervert the gospel of Christ” (Gal.1:7)
 
The main one would be the essential role of a prophet (Ephesians 4:11-14) even since the time of Christ.
.
Now this one… comparing-views.com/

. The Mormon Church does not have the same organization as the Church established by Jesus, in the New Testament Church prophets are secondary (1Cor.12:28). Prophets were secondary when there was a dispute in the New Testament Church, prophets exhorted the exhorted the brethren after “much disputing” by the church council (Acts.15:7,32). The Church established by Jesus has many prophets in the church and these prophets judged other prophets (Eph.4:1,11; 1Cor.14:26-37). Prophets like Judas and Silas exhorted the brethren after a council settled a dispute (Acts.15; 2Pet.1:19-21; John.14:16-26; Acts 13:1). The Bible warns us not to believe prophets but to test them, we can test them by comparing their words to the inspired word of God (1John.4:1; Acts.17:2,11; 2Tim.3:16). A prophet like Barnabas was sent away and preached (Acts 13:1-5).

A prophet is not head of the church like the Mormon President, the Bible reveals prophets are secondary. We can know a false prophet because they bring forth heresies. Joseph Smith is an example of a false prophet because he brought the heresy of “three Gods”. Joseph Smith did not restore truth, Joseph Smith teaching “three Gods” is not the truth that Jesus revealed. The Bible tells us that false prophets can show great signs and wonders. The alleged prophet Joseph Smith brought forth the Book of Mormon, the Book of Mormon is a sign to Mormons that Joseph Smith is a prophet and many Mormons wonder how a young farm boy with limited education could have brought forth the Book of Mormon and they wonder about the archaeological evidence to support the Book of Mormon since there is no archaeological evidence to support the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon comes from the alleged prophet Joseph Smith, he was given gold plates by an angel and he translated them by putting a seer stone into a hat and putting his face into the hat.
 
  1. Charles Taze Russell
    -Started the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Claimed to be a mouthpiece for Christ.
Charles Taze Russell did not “start” the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Russell did not believe in nay such organization, and he preached against such authoritarianism. He did not view any “outward organization” as being the true church.

Nor did Russell believe in the message that is preached by the Jehovah’s witnesses, that is, that bad tidings that is to be more most of the people that they will be eternally destroyed in Armageddon if they don’t submit themselves to the JW leadership.

Russell did claim to be a mouthpiece for Christ; he claimed that all Christians should be mouthpieces for Christ. He did not claim that being a mouthpiece for Christ meant that he or any other Christian was infallible, or that everything he or any other Christian wrote and stated about the Bible was without error.
 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Taze_Russell

Charles Taze Russell (February 16, 1852 – October 31, 1916), or Pastor Russell, was a prominent early 20th century Christian restorationist minister from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA, and founder of what is now known as the Bible Student movement,[1][2] from which Jehovah’s Witnesses and numerous independent Bible Student groups emerged after his death.

Beginning in July, 1879 he began publishing a monthly religious journal, Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence. The journal is now published by Jehovah’s Witnesses on a semi-monthly basis under the name, The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom.

In 1881 he co-founded Zion’s Watch Tower Tract Society and in 1884 the corporation was officially registered, with Russell as president. Russell wrote many articles, books, tracts, pamphlets and sermons, totaling approximately 50,000 printed pages.

From 1886 to 1904, he published a six-volume Bible study series originally entitled Millennial Dawn, later renamed Studies in the Scriptures, nearly 20 million copies of which were printed and distributed around the world in several languages during his lifetime.[3] (A seventh volume was commissioned by his successor as society president, Joseph Rutherford, and published in 1917.)

The Watch Tower Society officially states that it ceased publication of Russell’s writings in 1927,[4] though his books continue to be published by several independent groups.
 
The Watch Tower magazine appears to partially exist in atleast having one article with pictures that are anti-Catholic…every one I have seen has something…found some at the Catholic hospital…
 
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