Question about rape by proxy

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BornInMarch

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Here is the scenario. A man and a woman are kidnapped, and the kidnappers tell the man “rape this woman or I will kill you both”. If the man complies, is he culpable of rape? If he does not comply, and the kidnappers kill them both, is he culpable for the woman’s death?
 
BornInMarch said:
Here is the scenario. A man and a woman are kidnapped, and the kidnappers tell the man “rape this woman or I will kill you both”. If the man complies, is he culpable of rape? If he does not comply, and the kidnappers kill them both, is he culpable for the woman’s death?
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I generally don’t believe in fake scenerios like this but the kidnappers are culpable for both the kidnappings, forced rape as well as murder. You have a flawed scerario and it really in completely unlikely that people who kidnap others are going through the exercise of forcing some man to rape some women to save their lives. If there is rape involved in kidnappings, it is done by the kidnappers not the victims on each other. kidnappers have no respect for others, that is what enbable them to kidnap in the first place. Why are you making up an unlikely and unrealistic story? What is your point?
 
I was just asking a question. I had no intent to inflame anyone.

It is unfortunately not an unrealistic scenario; child pornographers sometimes force children to do this to each other for the purpose of making perverse video’s of it.

Please do not assume that I was just making up something that could never happen.
 
BornInMarch said:
Here is the scenario. A man and a woman are kidnapped, and the kidnappers tell the man “rape this woman or I will kill you both”. If the man complies, is he culpable of rape? If he does not comply, and the kidnappers kill them both, is he culpable for the woman’s death?
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Nobody can be forced to sin. The kidnappers are fully culpable.
 
this is a realistic senario the japanese forced many men to rape chinese women in a siege in the early 1920s, it is known to happen in parts of africa, latin america, and even in the US by perverts who kidnap couples and force the man to rape the woman so they can watch.

During war this is a common scenario as well, and no the men involved are not culpable in my opinion since they are forced to do it to save their lives and the woman’s life and the woman of course is not culpable at all.
 
In my view, those “forced” would still be culpable. Their culpability would be lowered, because they were being pressured at gunpoint, but not absent. They still had a choice. They still could have said “No.”, come what may come. This is the behavior that is befitting a Christian, or any fully moral person.

But it is above what probably most of us would do. Imagine if all good men refused to do evil’s bidding, no matter what. The world would be a much better place. Bu we make excuses due to fear and lack of faith. And no, I am not putting myself above that level. I am not among the saints.

As for being culpable for the woman’s death- I think that is clearly “No,” because we are not responsible for anyone’s free choices and behavior (unless it is a minor or a chain of command, etc… and even then the responsibility is limited). Unfortunately, this wouldn’t stop some guilt from coming about however.
BornInMarch said:
It is unfortunately not an unrealistic scenario; child pornographers sometimes force children to do this to each other for the purpose of making perverse video’s of it.
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With children the situation is different. They are not able to consent morally nor legally, and thus are generally free from culpability.
 
The kidnappers are threatening to kill them both if the man refuses. If you think he should still say “no”, would he be culpable for the woman’s death?

Just asking, no intention of inflammation.
 
BornInMarch said:
The kidnappers are threatening to kill them both if the man refuses. If you think he should still say “no”, would he be culpable for the woman’s death?

Just asking, no intention of inflammation.
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there are a number of saints known as martyrs of purity in which they refused to either be raped or partake in such evil. They ended up giving up their lives for the sake of their own moral integrety. google this and read their stories because many of them are very inspiring.
 
BornInMarch said:
The kidnappers are threatening to kill them both if the man refuses. If you think he should still say “no”, would he be culpable for the woman’s death?

Just asking, no intention of inflammation.
Click to expand...
Nope, the kidnappers would still be fully culpable.
 
BornInMarch said:
Here is the scenario. A man and a woman are kidnapped, and the kidnappers tell the man “rape this woman or I will kill you both”. If the man complies, is he culpable of rape? If he does not comply, and the kidnappers kill them both, is he culpable for the woman’s death?
Click to expand...
If he rapes a woman, he is guilty of rape regardless of the circumstance. It may be a tough choice, but it’s his choice to make and he must choose the right path. If he rightly chooses not to rape her (or any other crime committed under duress) and they kill the woman, he is not culpable in her death, her murders are culpable.
 
robwar said:
I generally don’t believe in fake scenerios like this but the kidnappers are culpable for both the kidnappings, forced rape as well as murder. You have a flawed scerario and it really in completely unlikely that people who kidnap others are going through the exercise of forcing some man to rape some women to save their lives. If there is rape involved in kidnappings, it is done by the kidnappers not the victims on each other. kidnappers have no respect for others, that is what enbable them to kidnap in the first place. Why are you making up an unlikely and unrealistic story? What is your point?
Click to expand...
This scenario has been played out in real life before. It’s a legitimate question.
 
robwar said:
there are a number of saints known as martyrs of purity in which they refused to either be raped or partake in such evil. They ended up giving up their lives for the sake of their own moral integrety. google this and read their stories because many of them are very inspiring.
Click to expand...
This is heroic purity–going above and beyond what is required to a supernatural degree It in no way implies that a victim of rape is at all culpable.
 
robwar said:
I generally don’t believe in fake scenerios like this but the kidnappers are culpable for both the kidnappings, forced rape as well as murder. You have a flawed scerario and it really in completely unlikely that people who kidnap others are going through the exercise of forcing some man to rape some women to save their lives. If there is rape involved in kidnappings, it is done by the kidnappers not the victims on each other. kidnappers have no respect for others, that is what enbable them to kidnap in the first place. Why are you making up an unlikely and unrealistic story? What is your point?
Click to expand...
The kidnappers were gay!!!
 
As distasteful as this scenario is, the man is not fully culpable. “Do this or we kill both of you” is coercion, and if someone is forced into doing something that would normally be sinful, he isn’t fully culpable.

The OP seems to be primarily concerned with children, and there the answer is even more clear-cut- of course the children are not responsible.
 
It would be a demand of my Christianity not to rape a woman no matter what the consequences. I hope I would find the courage to accept death before dishonour. There is never an excuse to rape a woman, period. You may die but you die as a man of honour and a servant of God. You are not responsible for the actions of the kidnappers to either victim.
 
So if the kidnappers cut her throat in front of you, you won’t feel the least bit guilty knowing you might possibly have saved her life?
 
BornInMarch said:
So if the kidnappers cut her throat in front of you, you won’t feel the least bit guilty knowing you might possibly have saved her life?
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As opposed to raping her? The guilt is that of the one who murders this person, not the one who refused to commit his own violent crime against the woman. Guilt, of course, but not for refusing to rape her.
 
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