Question about RCIA and annulments

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MAINEGIRL2014

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question about RCIA and annulments

I would like to become Catholic (currently Jewish).
I was married twice before to non Christians who were never baptized.
Neither was I.
Since there was no sacrament do I still need to have annulments?
I am currently married to a baptized man (non Catholic).
He was married once before to a Catholic but not in the church
(lack of form)
My priest told me I would need to go through the annulment process
but what about the Pauline Privilege?
Is the only way to convert is go through the annulments?
 
The short answer is yes you need to go through the annulment process. I’m sure a catholic will be along shortly to answer properly but the Catholic Church recognizes **non Catholic **marriages as valid whether they are religious or not. I don’t think baptism has anything to do with it.

Your husbands first marriage was invalid since his first spouse was a Catholic and the Church requires Catholics to be married in the Catholic Church.

Your second and currently this marriage are invalid since you were divorced (this one I am not sure on - I am sure the Catholic Church views NON-CATHOLIC marriages as invalid if one of the spouses are divorced)

The unsure one is your first marriage - was he divorced? If he wasn’t then the Church will view this marriage as valid and will view you as still being married to your first husband. During the annulment process the church will need to find a reason BEFORE the marriage for it to be invalidated and therefore annuled.

As I said, Im not 100% sure though, I’m sure a catholic will be along shortly.
 
I’m sort of going through the same situation, and I’ve done quite a bit of research into the matter, and this is what I’ve discovered through several channels:
Holy Mother Church assumes all marriages to be valid until proven otherwise. Considering you are presently civilly married, the Church assumes this marriage to be valid, so a petition for a Decree of Nullity would be necessary to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation. The Pauline Privilege may be the way to go as well, and someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that you have to petition Vatican for the Pauline Privilege, and I think that would take much, much longer than the annulment Tribunal.
I am in no way, shape, or form an authority in these matters. I’m not 100% certain if I have my information stated accurately, so someone please correct me if I’m off base, and please forgive me if I am wrong.
My prayers are with you. Just know that whatever and however the process my be, it’s going to take a bit of time. Try to be patient, and remember that all things work for the good for those that love the Lord!
 
MaineGirl,

Your situation is somewhat complicated, on a number of fronts. It would be irresponsible for someone on an internet forum (regardless how well intentioned) to try and break down the situation for you. So, your best bet is your pastor (who, unless he is a canon lawyer, would hopefully touch base with the diocesan canon law office on this matter).

The notion of the Pauline Privilege carries with it a number of considerations: first, the person who ‘departs’ must be the unbaptized person, not the person who was (subsequently) baptized. Second, the unbaptized person must be given the opportunity to convert or to live peacefully within the marriage. In your situation, this might be rather problematic, since you have two previous marriages to unbaptized persons. (Perhaps this is the reason that your priest suggested the nullity process – he might be making the judgment that it would be more straightforward to proceed with that process than through the route of the Pauline Privilege. However, you’ll need to ask him, if you want clarification.)

The situation with your current husband also comes into play. Assuming that there is no additional relevant information (e.g., was he married prior to his marriage to the Catholic woman? was she married prior to his marriage to him?), and assuming that your characterization of a ‘lack of form’ is accurate, then it would seem that his first marriage might be resolved via a documentary process, rather than the full nullity proceedings.

In short: seek your pastor’s advice; he’s the one who has all the information about the situation, and we can only go on what you’ve told us (which might be leaving out crucial information). And besides which – do you really want to go with the advice of an armchair canonist, when you can deal with the real thing through your pastor? 😉
 
Gorgias said:
MaineGirl,

Your situation is somewhat complicated, on a number of fronts. **It would be irresponsible **for someone on an internet forum (regardless how well intentioned) to try and break down the situation for you. So, your best bet is your pastor (who, unless he is a canon lawyer, would hopefully touch base with the diocesan canon law office on this matter).
Click to expand...
Sorry :o guilty as charged.

OP, ignore my post!
 
NewCatholic1974 said:
Holy Mother Church assumes all marriages to be valid until proven otherwise.
Click to expand...
Not always – there has to be reason to believe the marriage is valid. In the case of a lack of form, that presumption doesn’t exist, since it can be demonstrated through documentation that the Catholic spouse(s) were required to follow the Church’s requirements for the form of the sacrament and did not do so.
Considering you are presently civilly married, the Church assumes this marriage to be valid
Click to expand...
Not necessarily, considering she was married previously. If one of those marriages were valid, then the current marriage would be considered invalid due to the existence of a prior marriage.
so a petition for a Decree of Nullity would be necessary to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation.
Click to expand...
what’s necessary, rather, is that the OP get some clarity on the question of the validity of her marriage(s). I think, NewCatholic, that you seem to be saying that she receive a decree of nullity for her current marriage in order to be confirmed? That’s not accurate.
The Pauline Privilege may be the way to go as well, and someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that you have to petition Vatican for the Pauline Privilege
Click to expand...
You’re thinking of the Petrine Privilege. 😉
 
Thanks for the corrections. I wasn’t 100% sure if I had my information stated accurately, as these types of situations can get rather complicated. My apologies for the inaccurate info.:o
 
I have to believe your priest would have the correct answer for you and would know what is to be done far better then any of us could explain. If he says you need an annulment then that’s probably exactly what you’ll need to do. Begin the process right away and maybe it will be possible to have this and RCIA completed at the same time.
 
Since the Church presumes the validity of the marriages of non-Catholics, providing there is no impediment such as previous marriages or close kinship, the Church considers you married to your first husband.

With your three civil marriages it all becomes very complicated.

You can read more about Pauline Privilege here.
 
Thanks all for answering me…especially G…
I am afraid annulment process is too much…
Don’t like being interrogated by a panel of strangers…
Don’t have witnesses…Those previous marriages happened over a decade ago…
And no I did not keep any information from explaining my situation.
First marriage was at 19, lasted less than a year, to a Jew in Israel.
Second marriage was also a Jewish one…but in the U.S.
The divorce was Jewish and civil.
I read somewhere if none of the parties were baptized it is not sacramental.
As for my current husband, yes, it was his only marriage before me,
and his ex-it was her only marriage for her.
I heard the Vatican is working on changing some of the stiff rules.
I would like to convert to Christianity and picked Catholicism because
I like how universal it is and my belief in the purgatory.
I am kind of afraid to waste my pastor’s time…I am shy by nature.
Any of you could recommend a Christian denomination that is
friendly and accepting of a Jewish woman who has accepted Christ?
Who believes in Christ as her savior?
The way I understand it, it is not necessary to go through annulment in a non Catholic church in order to become Christian because annulments exist only in the Catholic church? Perhaps a church that would be more interested with my faith than prior marriages? Thank you all who gave me so much advice.
Your sister in Christ,
MaineGirl
 
I found this in Wiki

Non-sacramental marriage

The kind of marriage to which the “favour of the faith” applies is a valid but non-sacramental marriage. Baptism is required for valid reception of the other sacraments, and because in marriage two people are involved together, if either of them is not baptised, there is no sacrament. A non-sacramental marriage, while recognised as valid, is classified as not confirmed (non ratum) and can be dissolved for the sake of the higher good of a person’s faith.[5]

Arlington Diocese, “Dissolution of the Bond of Marriage – Favor of the Faith- Petrine Privilege”
 
NewCatholic, thank you for your prayers.
TruthFaith, my first husband was just insane…
And no he was not divorced before he married me, he was single.
It would be unsafe for me to open a can of worms about him…
He was a stalker and a dangerous man.
Everybody-thanks for looking into this matter.
I am so dismayed that it is so difficult to become Catholic.
How can I be still considered married to my first husband,
when a Jewish rabbinical court divorced us???
This is making it all so difficult to enter the Catholic world.
 
Is there a Protestant alternative to the RCIA?
What are the requirements to convert to Christianity?
Christ is my Lord in all my heart and soul but I would like to make it “official”.
Is Baptism enough? How do I choose a church?
What I like about Catholics is that there is no women in priesthood.
I am used to that because of my Jewish background.
I don’t want to be a part of some temporary and confusing stream.
I love how Catholics are so organized…I love the Saints, and Mary of course.
I would like to pray with a rosary and take communion.
What do you know of the “born again Christian” movement?
Should it matter my previous marriages to my conversion?
Sorry for so many questions but it seems I met the right people here to answer 🙂
Thank you all, again, for your thoughts and comments.
Truly appreciate that!
By the way, what does it mean trial member? (my status)
 
MAINEGIRL2014 said:
question about RCIA and annulments

I would like to become Catholic (currently Jewish).
I was married twice before to non Christians who were never baptized.
Neither was I.
Since there was no sacrament do I still need to have annulments?
I am currently married to a baptized man (non Catholic).
He was married once before to a Catholic but not in the church
(lack of form)
My priest told me I would need to go through the annulment process
but what about the Pauline Privilege?
Is the only way to convert is go through the annulments?
Click to expand...
 
I was also Jewish and in 1977 became a Catholic. It is not hard to get a annulment through the church if you can show the marriage was defective. December 3rd I will be married to a wonderful man who is Catholic for 37 years. The church has brought so much into my life. Do this because you want to not because your dating a Catholic. When you go through RCIA you will learn what we believe and why. Becoming Catholic is a commitment we don’t bounce from one church to another . It’s a life long commitment and RCIA. will show you why it’s worth it. Everyone has to decide for themselves. You won’t regret your decision. The Lord has made a difference in my life and I feel so Blessed. We take the sacrament of marriage seriously as all sacraments. Your past life will be in the past all sins will be forgiven and you will start a new life in Christ. Keep going to Mass and don’t let anyone tell you what to do. Open your heart listen to what the Priest or Deacons preach and your journey into the Catholic faith will be a good one.

God Bless You
Ann Long
 
Maine,

Please don’t worry about what I said about you possibly still being considered married to your first husband. I didn’t know that there was an exception with a marriage between unbaptized people when one person is converting to the faith. To answer your question in a general sense though, the Catholic Church believes that no man can undo what God has joined together. So it doesn’t matter if someone has a legal divorce, unless there is an annulment as well, the CC still upholds the marriage.

As for choosing a Church, if you believe that the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus Christ established on this earth, then you shouldn’t let a “process” put you off joining. Churches are not supposed to be about what best suits us and our lifestyles or how patient we are. Its about where the TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL is. If you believe in purgatory and the saints, then the Catholic Church is your only “option”.
 
MAINEGIRL2014 said:
Thanks all for answering me…especially G…
I am afraid annulment process is too much…
Don’t like being interrogated by a panel of strangers…
Click to expand...
Oh, dear, it’s not like that. In some cases you are given a questionnaire that you answer to the best of your abilities. It covers your upbringing, courtship and the marriage.

In some cases, they will have one person interview you and ask those same questions so that they have a verbal record of the answers. There is no ‘panel’.
Don’t have witnesses…Those previous marriages happened over a decade ago…
And no I did not keep any information from explaining my situation.
First marriage was at 19, lasted less than a year, to a Jew in Israel.
Second marriage was also a Jewish one…but in the U.S.
The divorce was Jewish and civil.
Click to expand...
It would still be worth your while to try. Your ex need never find out where you are, there is no need for YOU to contact him and the Tribunal would never reveal that to him.
I read somewhere if none of the parties were baptized it is not sacramental.
Click to expand...
That’s right, both have to be baptized for a marriage to be sacramental.
As for my current husband, yes, it was his only marriage before me,
and his ex-it was her only marriage for her.
Click to expand...
He’d only have to prove she is Catholic and that she didn’t receive a dispensation to marry outside the Church. Her certificate of Baptism would be all he needed along with the marriage records and the divorce records.
I heard the Vatican is working on changing some of the stiff rules.
Click to expand...
The media says a lot of things. I wouldn’t hold my breath for the changes some people are hoping for. The media did the same thing in the 60s with the advent of the Pill but nothing changed in the Catholic Church, just a reiteration of the rules as they had always been.
I would like to convert to Christianity and picked Catholicism because
I like how universal it is and my belief in the purgatory.
I am kind of afraid to waste my pastor’s time…I am shy by nature.
Click to expand...
I’m sure your pastor would not consider it time wasted. He’s there to help you if you want to be baptized.
 
MAINEGIRL2014 said:
…Don’t have witnesses…Those previous marriages happened over a decade ago…

Any of you could recommend a Christian denomination that is
friendly and accepting of a Jewish woman who has accepted Christ?
…
Perhaps a church that would be more interested with my faith than prior marriages? …
Click to expand...
Hello,

No matter what process you are involved in, you will need the (name removed by moderator)ut of witnesses. It should be possible to explore the Pauline Privilege but even that process requires that you are able to establish that you and the man were not and are not baptized. This usually means that your parent(s) or other, elder relative(s) who have known you since birth testify that you are unbaptized. The same is true for the man.

I’d never recommend anything other than the Catholic Church…which is interested in *you *as a person.

I’ll pray for you.

Dan
 
MAINEGIRL2014 said:
Thanks all for answering me…especially G…
I am afraid annulment process is too much…
Don’t like being interrogated by a panel of strangers…
Don’t have witnesses…Those previous marriages happened over a decade ago…
And no I did not keep any information from explaining my situation.
First marriage was at 19, lasted less than a year, to a Jew in Israel.
Second marriage was also a Jewish one…but in the U.S.
The divorce was Jewish and civil.
I read somewhere if none of the parties were baptized it is not sacramental.
As for my current husband, yes, it was his only marriage before me,
and his ex-it was her only marriage for her.
I heard the Vatican is working on changing some of the stiff rules.
I would like to convert to Christianity and picked Catholicism because
I like how universal it is and my belief in the purgatory.
I am kind of afraid to waste my pastor’s time…I am shy by nature.
Any of you could recommend a Christian denomination that is
friendly and accepting of a Jewish woman who has accepted Christ?
Who believes in Christ as her savior?
The way I understand it, it is not necessary to go through annulment in a non Catholic church in order to become Christian because annulments exist only in the Catholic church? Perhaps a church that would be more interested with my faith than prior marriages? Thank you all who gave me so much advice.
Your sister in Christ,
MaineGirl
Click to expand...
The Vatican cannot change the fact that a valid sacramental marriage is a lifelong bond. That was instituted by Christ Himself. A valid natural marriage can be dissolved in certain situations, as we have stated above. The problem is that if you previously married, and those marriages were valid AND cannot be dissolved, you are not validly married to your current husband. To continue to live with him in a marital relationship is adultery. I’m not trying to be cruel - it’s a statement of fact.

In terms of the declaration of nullity, you will not be going up in front of “a panel of strangers”. My husband received a declaration of nullity for his first marriage (only married because of pregnancy and wife left him when their daughter was almost 4). He only had to submit a questionnaire and attend an interview with our priest. Everything else was done through paperwork.

Please feel free to PM me if you’d like more information about how the process worked for us. I can’t guarantee that the way his went is exactly how yours will go (I think it differs to a certain extent depending on the diocese) but I can give you a general idea of what to expect. You can also research my other posts in which I’ve explained the process in detail.
 
I would like to thank you all again for your blessed help.
Yes, I believe truly becoming Catholic is the only option for me.
I cannot fathom a female priest-especially because of my background.
Also, I believe in and love all the Saints. And of course the purgatory.
I feel any other Christian denomination will be second to Catholicism.
I feel “home” the way Catholics do things. It just rings right for me. I need to be closer to God and Jesus Christ. With all your help I finally made the call today to meet my priest. The first time we spoke I was a bit scared and overwhelmed but now I am more emotionally prepared for the journey. I know my soul will never be complete unless I become Catholic. I feel peace inside just thinking about being Catholic.
I do not believe my husband has any access or records to his ex’s baptism papers.
She was a Philippine and they lost touch over 20 years ago and the last thing he would want is to look for her. Their relationship ended in a messy divorce.

As for testimony from my parents, that’s impossible for many reasons. They are elderly and incapable of giving testimony, and further than that, they had already told me they would never help me to become Christian as they are very “Jewish”. My parents and I were never close. I am sorry to disclose to you that certain Jewish people view Jesus in a very negative way and for me to become Catholic is for them the ultimate betrayal and they would disown me. Therefore, that option does not exist for me. I do not have witnesses about the personal details of my ex marriages that happened decades ago. I did not confide in friends and am rather an introvert. It would be tragic if for the lack of “witnesses” I could not become Catholic? There is a great tense between my parents and I and has been since I confessed Jesus at age 18. Surely it would bring me harm if I told them of my plans. I am not planning to ever tell them.

I will need your prayers.

I would like to be cleansed of my sins and Judaism and be a devout Catholic. I would like to take communion and be a full member of the Catholic Church. I would like a Christian burial. With a husband who is not “religious” delicately speaking (he was raised Methodist) and parents who were emotionally and verbally abusive it takes a great effort and some courage to become Catholic. I therefore can only hope not to be subjected to more obstacles. Does the fact I am married now makes it more difficult to become Catholic? I am coming from a complete different background of law and rules. I am not a “cradle Catholic” but rather need to learn and practice everything from the very beginning-I am just starting, or rather, would like to. I would like to correct whatever needs correction, so I can become Catholic. I am wondering from a Catholic point of view: do Catholics encourage people to enter their world? Are they happy someone new, but an outsider wants to join? Does it count that a Jewish person wants to convert? Given the history of Jesus and his crucifixion I was hoping there would be salvation for a Jewish person.

That salvation for me is to become Catholic.
 
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