Question About Real Presence in Eucharist

  • Thread starter Thread starter jinc1019
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jinc1019

Guest
Hello All,

I hope all is well. I’ve been thinking a lot about the doctrine of the Real Presence of our Lord in the Lord’s Supper, and I’m wondering … If Jesus has ascended into Heaven and is seated at the right of the Father, how can he be locally present in the Eucharist? Certainly you could say “it’s a mystery,” but doesn’t this teaching somehow harm Jesus’ absolute humanity? Humans can’t be in two places at one time, and nowhere in scripture do we hear about Jesus in two places at one time.

Thoughts on this? Thanks for your time!
 
Actually, Scripture does record Jesus being in several places at one time: “This is my body” – “This is the chalice of my blood.”

If multi-location violates human nature, then much more does sanctifying grace, which makes us partakers of the divine nature. Not to mention other phenomena which I think you probably accept – inexplicable healings, speaking unknown languages, impossible military victories, etc – which things human beings could not do except for supernatural (or preternatural) intervention. This does not violate human nature, but elevates it, as does bilocation.

Some saints have been known to bilocate, for example, St. Pio of Pietrelcina (1887-1968), a humble Franciscan friar.
 
I’m not sure how Jesus multiplies His presence, but if St. Padre Pio could bi-locate (or even tri-locate), surely God can do this at the very least.

Personally, given that Our Risen Lord now sits on a throne in Heaven, outside our temporal realm, I find the bi-location of the Saints even more mystifying.
 
jinc1019 said:
Hello All,

I hope all is well. I’ve been thinking a lot about the doctrine of the Real Presence of our Lord in the Lord’s Supper, and I’m wondering … If Jesus has ascended into Heaven and is seated at the right of the Father, how can he be locally present in the Eucharist? Certainly you could say “it’s a mystery,” but doesn’t this teaching somehow harm Jesus’ absolute humanity? Humans can’t be in two places at one time, and nowhere in scripture do we hear about Jesus in two places at one time.

Thoughts on this? Thanks for your time!
Click to expand...
If you can believe in the doctrine of the hypostatic union, then the real presence presents no difficulties. There is no legitimate teaching of Jesus’ “absolute humanity” btw. Meaning this: that Jesus is 100% human just like us. The legitimate Christian belief since the 5th century is in the Hypostatic Union; which is this: The PERSON Jesus is a hypostatic union of a human nature (Body and Soul) and the Divine Nature (2nd Person of the Blessed Trinity.) There is no admixture or separation in this union.

However it is symptomatic of the fundamentalist/evangelical semi-arianism.
 
I asked a similar question fairly recently and was explained to by several posters that the Hypostatic Union is exactly what makes this possible.

I had a Calvinist friend who was trying to argue against the Real Presence because of the Hypostatic Union and was basically saying that Jesus’s Divinity was limited by His humanity; however, the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union really teaches the opposite: Jesus’s Divinity enables His humanity to do things that we, in our humanity, can’t, nor can we even fully understand. The Resurrection is the prime example of this. It was Jesus’s Divinity that enabled the resurrection of His humanity (His Body). It’s that same Divinity that enables Him to be truly present (Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity) in the Eucharist.

From what my feeble mind can understand, because Jesus can present His humanity (His Body and Blood) in the Eucharist by virtue of His Divinity, His Soul and Divinity MUST also be present because of the Hypostatic Union. That’s why the miracle of feeding the 5,000 that immediately precedes the Bread of Life discourse in John 6 is so significant, strategic, and meaningful.
 
In his 1968 Apostolic Letter Credo of the People of God, Pope Paul VI says:
26. The unique and indivisible existence of the Lord glorious in heaven is not multiplied, but is rendered present by the sacrament in the many places on earth where Mass is celebrated. And this existence remains present, after the sacrifice, in the Blessed Sacrament which is, in the tabernacle, the living heart of each of our churches. And it is our very sweet duty to honor and adore in the blessed Host which our eyes see, the Incarnate Word whom they cannot see, and who, without leaving heaven, is made present before us.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that the consecrated bread and wine become some kind of portals or wormholes directly into heaven where Jesus is in glory.
 
slh3016 said:
I asked a similar question fairly recently and was explained to by several posters that the Hypostatic Union is exactly what makes this possible.

I had a Calvinist friend who was trying to argue against the Real Presence because of the Hypostatic Union and was basically saying that Jesus’s Divinity was limited by His humanity; however, the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union really teaches the opposite: Jesus’s Divinity enables His humanity to do things that we, in our humanity, can’t, nor can we even fully understand. The Resurrection is the prime example of this. It was Jesus’s Divinity that enabled the resurrection of His humanity (His Body). It’s that same Divinity that enables Him to be truly present (Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity) in the Eucharist.

From what my feeble mind can understand, because Jesus can present His humanity (His Body and Blood) in the Eucharist by virtue of His Divinity, His Soul and Divinity MUST also be present because of the Hypostatic Union. That’s why the miracle of feeding the 5,000 that immediately precedes the Bread of Life discourse in John 6 is so significant, strategic, and meaningful.
Click to expand...
I see you are trying to make a logical explanation, but it is not biblical. When the Lord died, His spirit left His body.(Lk23:46)
The question of how a human body can be in many places at the same time was a question that troubled the Roman church for a thousand years, if you study the literature. You are not the first to ask. The way it was finally solved was to make an explanation that the presence of Jesus’ body is a “real presence” but not actually the same way that we exist. It is just called a “third mode of existence”, for lack of a better explanation since no one really knows what that is, except that it is not spiritual and not the physical human body as we have it. This is the Catholic explanation, but few are familiar with it.

Shalom,

Jerry
 
eazyduzit said:
I see you are trying to make a logical explanation, but it is not biblical. When the Lord died, His spirit left His body.(Lk23:46)
The question of how a human body can be in many places at the same time was a question that troubled the Roman church for a thousand years, if you study the literature. You are not the first to ask. The way it was finally solved was to make an explanation that the presence of Jesus’ body is a “real presence” but not actually the same way that we exist. It is just called a “third mode of existence”, for lack of a better explanation since no one really knows what that is, except that it is not spiritual and not the physical human body as we have it. This is the Catholic explanation, but few are familiar with it.

Shalom,

Jerry
Click to expand...
The Real Presence is incredibly Biblical.

Jesus always uses the terminology “truly, I say to you” or “Amen, Amen” before he speaks literally. The people around him departed from him because what he was saying in John 6 was a “hard saying”. If the Eucharist was merely symbolic, because Jesus is the truth, he would have had to tell them, in perfect honesty, that they misunderstood. They did not. They knew exactly what he was talking about.

Also, I encourage you to watch this with an open mind.

youtube.com/watch?v=qbg_dhI4XCs

It proves that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist.
 
Abide_in_Love said:
The Real Presence is incredibly Biblical.

Jesus always uses the terminology “truly, I say to you” or “Amen, Amen” before he speaks literally. The people around him departed from him because what he was saying in John 6 was a “hard saying”. If the Eucharist was merely symbolic, because Jesus is the truth, he would have had to tell them, in perfect honesty, that they misunderstood. They did not. They knew exactly what he was talking about.

Also, I encourage you to watch this with an open mind.

youtube.com/watch?v=qbg_dhI4XCs

It proves that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist.
Click to expand...
Yes, they did understand what He was talking about. That is why (at the beginning of the next chapter) the Jews sought to kill Him. What they correctly understood was that He was claiming to be equal with God. If He was only talking about cannibalism, that would not be worthy of death.

Shalom,

Jerry
 
eazyduzit said:
I see you are trying to make a logical explanation, but it is not biblical. When the Lord died, His spirit left His body.(Lk23:46)
Click to expand...
How is it unbiblical? The Bible doesn’t say His soul and divinity were separated, but that His life was His to lay down and His to take up again. So the part about His resurrection is perfectly biblical. And the separation of soul and body was temporary: He rose again, bodily; so the part about the unity of His Person is also perfectly biblical.
 
eazyduzit said:
Yes, they did understand what He was talking about. That is why (at the beginning of the next chapter) the Jews sought to kill Him. What they correctly understood was that He was claiming to be equal with God. If He was only talking about cannibalism, that would not be worthy of death.
Click to expand...
You’re conflating two events. First, the Bread of Life discourse, in which He repeats that His flesh is meat indeed, and His blood drink indeed. Second, the Jews seeking His life, which is clearly narrated as a separate event in a different location. “After these things Jesus walked in Galilee…”
 
eazyduzit said:
Yes, they did understand what He was talking about. That is why (at the beginning of the next chapter) the Jews sought to kill Him. What they correctly understood was that He was claiming to be equal with God. If He was only talking about cannibalism, that would not be worthy of death.

Shalom,

Jerry
Click to expand...
Did you watch the video? A consecrated host was evaluated and it was found to be heart muscle from a tortured man, and the heart beat in front of the scientist.

Also, if they walked away because he claimed to be equal with God, why did they ask, “How can he give us his flesh to eat?” They argued amongst themselves because it was a “hard saying”.
 
jinc1019 said:
Hello All,

I hope all is well. I’ve been thinking a lot about the doctrine of the Real Presence of our Lord in the Lord’s Supper, and I’m wondering … If Jesus has ascended into Heaven and is seated at the right of the Father, how can he be locally present in the Eucharist? Certainly you could say “it’s a mystery,” but doesn’t this teaching somehow harm Jesus’ absolute humanity? Humans can’t be in two places at one time, and nowhere in scripture do we hear about Jesus in two places at one time.

Thoughts on this? Thanks for your time!
Click to expand...
His humanity is omnipresent
 
jinc1019 said:
Hello All,

I hope all is well. I’ve been thinking a lot about the doctrine of the Real Presence of our Lord in the Lord’s Supper, and I’m wondering … If Jesus has ascended into Heaven and is seated at the right of the Father, how can he be locally present in the Eucharist? Certainly you could say “it’s a mystery,” but doesn’t this teaching somehow harm Jesus’ absolute humanity? Humans can’t be in two places at one time, and nowhere in scripture do we hear about Jesus in two places at one time.

Thoughts on this? Thanks for your time!
Click to expand...
His humanity now exists in a resurected, glorified body, which has different properties than our material bodies. His humanity, like all those in heaven, now exists outside the space/time continuum.
 
eazyduzit said:
I see you are trying to make a logical explanation, but it is not biblical. When the Lord died, His spirit left His body.(Lk23:46)
The question of how a human body can be in many places at the same time was a question that troubled the Roman church for a thousand years, if you study the literature. You are not the first to ask. The way it was finally solved was to make an explanation that the presence of Jesus’ body is a “real presence” but not actually the same way that we exist. It is just called a “third mode of existence”, for lack of a better explanation since no one really knows what that is, except that it is not spiritual and not the physical human body as we have it. This is the Catholic explanation, but few are familiar with it.

Shalom,

Jerry
Click to expand...
Please explain to me 1st Corinthians chapter 11 verses 23 to 27. Because it seems your belief is unbiblical.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top