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AkronPonderer
Guest
Julianna:
You “win” if you get the last word (post), is that the silly game you’re playing?
You “win” if you get the last word (post), is that the silly game you’re playing?
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gogogirl
Guest
I am not slamming you. I just want to use your post to illustrate a few points.
I know the church teachings but I choose not to follow them on some occasions. Stating the teachings of the church is not supposed to incite the feelings of guilt. God gave us all free will to do as we choose.
It is not about these people. It is about people trying to share their knowledge of the Catholic Church with others. I joined the Catholic Church a little over a year ago and there is no way that a person can know everything on their own. The Catechism spells out pretty much everything but there are times that I have to seek out ancilliary documents to further my understanding. There is no way that the Catechism could possilby contain 2000 years worth of church history and church teachings.
It is not about having them in your bedroom. It is a matter of completely understanding the teachings of the church. A covenant marriage must meet certain requirements. According to the Catechism:
While I don’t like to go around citing the Catechism, I think it is fitting in this situation because it defines that a marriage covenant is ordered toward procreation. It’s not about having the church in your bedroom. Many of the people around here just want to be sure that you are making “educated” decisions. God gave us free will to do as we choose.
The sin of Onan can be found in Genesis. I think it is somewhere in Chapter 38. Many of the newer books do not expand on it as much as the older books do. Yes, most of the books were penned by humans but many of those humans happen to be doctors of the church and are part of the rich history of Catholocism. To say that all books, teachings, etc. are faulty because they were penned by man is to deny all religion. After all, wasn’t the Bible written by men from that era. The Bible was divinely inspired but it was ultimately man who put the “pen” to the paper as it were.
I know the church teachings but I choose not to follow them on some occasions. Stating the teachings of the church is not supposed to incite the feelings of guilt. God gave us all free will to do as we choose.
Absolutely, but in the political arena, I also choose not to use a label so that I do not get mistaken for an expert on a topic. There is absolutely nothing on this earth that isn’t tainted by us humans.
No, there is no guilt here. I simply want to make sure that my opinions are clearly delineated as such. I do not want to misguide anybody that is seriously seeking information about what the church teaches. I want to be taken seriously and not be seen as a noisy gong. Sin is not something that is a subjective matter.
I find some of the teachings to be repressive because they require that we repress certain urges. If we want to be in 100% agreement with the church, there are certain things that we cannot do.
It is not about these people. It is about people trying to share their knowledge of the Catholic Church with others. I joined the Catholic Church a little over a year ago and there is no way that a person can know everything on their own. The Catechism spells out pretty much everything but there are times that I have to seek out ancilliary documents to further my understanding. There is no way that the Catechism could possilby contain 2000 years worth of church history and church teachings.
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setter
Guest
It may be helpful to read the article link that I cited in its entirety.
You will never see, understand, or come to a joyful acceptance of the truth of the Church’s teaching in this area on your own. What is necesary is a grace from the Holy Spirit to know, accept and do in faith what is right in God’s eyes. When one finds a particular Church a stumbling block, and persists in a sin pattern, one needs for the welfare of their soul to pray for conversion and enlightenment of mind and the grace to accept and live the truth. This is embracing the cross and dying to one’s own limited, unenlightened understanding and reasoning, in order to discover and experience new and fullness of life of Jesus Christ. That is why He is called Lord. The goal of the Christian life is to come to know and love and serve the person of Jesus Christ so that we may live a life worthy of the sacrifice of the Cross and when the final curtain falls to want to live with Him in heaven for all eternity. There is a price of admission into heaven, do not fool yourself, or allow others, this world or the devil, to fool you otherwise. Holiness of life and person is a wonderful, wonderful, clean, vibrant, exciting thing, and brings untold blessings to one’s marriage.
Sometimes truth is not revealed unless one is seeking and attempting to live the truth despite not being convinced of the reasoning of the Church’s teaching. Our rationalizations for sin are quite convincing and pumped full of pride. To persist acting knowingly in grave sin and say that one will take responsibiliy and face the consequences of such unrepentent sin, is not courageous, it is plain stupidity and lacking in reality checks on a rational level. I do not pretend to judge the heart.
One can pray for their own personal conversion and to come to desire, know and live the truth. Pray. Just do it – meaning just don’t sin. Or do it and be honest that one ultimately is operating on the selfish and lack of faith principle and is choosing a self destructive path that may ultimately deprive themself of the [sanctifying] grave needed to live in heaven.
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setter
Guest
And is Jesus pleased with the activity that He is seeing in there, or is He disappointed and discusted with sin activity? This is the question that every serious Catholic must honesty ask themself. I suggest a a big picture of the sacred heart of Jesus and Mary above the bed to bring this reality home so it is not so much just a removed [from Church teaching] notional idea that “God is there”.
The bible was likewise “penned by a human being(s)”. Jesus is about truth, seeking holiness of life and person, having Lordship over ALL areas of our lives.
Terrible example and rationale.To differ on a political platform is diferent to differ (as in willful dissent in words and actions) from authoritative Church taching in matters of faith and morals.
If one does not have corresponding guilt ofr sin choices, then one should seriously be concerned and about the task of finding and figuring out what “spirit” they are “filled” with. I am not being quip, I am being serious.
There is nothing bravado or courageous about actively and willfully rationalizing and choosing sin that is leading one down the road to personal destruction. This is plain stupidity and seriosuly lacking in reality checks and walking in spiritual darkness. Do not fool yourself, God does not leave the authority of His Church out of the bedroom. To coach and try to convince a fellow Catholic otherwise is participating with the Enemy of our souls, and all but evidences that one has been captured by sinful lies and darkened understanding themselves.
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gogogirl
Guest
You miss what I have been stating. The church teaches that it is okay to use NFP. I am stating that I would rather not use any means of deliberately planning relations. I prefer to only use ecological breastfeeding. Are you telling me that I am sinning in making these choices? For the purposes of this discussion on this thread, you need to take note that I am specifically referring to NFP and the notions of procreative and unitive. I fail to see how not using NFP is a sin. I am living the truth of the teachings that all relations must be procreative. We do not deliberately time our relations to avoid pregnancy.
It is rather uncharitable to say that I or anyone else is plain stupid and lacks courage. I think it is very courageous to want to know and understand the teachings of the church. I have stated repeatedly that God gave us free will so that we may read, study, pray, and make our own decisions. It is not your place to be constantly rubbing our noses in the fact that you know so much more than we do. I have not rationalized any of my sins. I know the church teachings.
How long have you been a Catholic? There is a big difference between somebody that has lived the faith their entire life versus somebody that is just learning. It is difficult to learn and explore when people imply that we do not have the free will to learn and study so that we may accept the teachings without reservation of heart or mind.
Can you honestly state that you do not sin? I didn’t think that any of us mortals could claim that we do not sin. Based on this statement, it is rather easy to just not sin. I suppose you have it all figured out and are able to go about your day sin free. We each have our own weaknesses. Would it make you happy if I said that I am horribley selfish and lack faith? Sure, I will be happy to say that but I challenge you to find a human that is not selfish on some level and has perfect faith. I am not justifying anything here. I am only stating the obvious. Are any of us free from sin?
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Peter_DiMitri
Guest
I have to say that it is incredible that you would determine without any indication from me that I want to crawl into a hole somewhere. How on earth did you decide what I felt in response to my question?
I wanted to know if it was considered a sin. I got my answer. I’m not going to crawl anywhere, declaring my feelings (when I don’t even know you) is hubris.
I get the idea that you aren’t going to be “guilted” (sounds like feminism to me), and surely you are entitled to live your life your own way, but please do not speak for me. Thanks.
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Texas_Roofer
Guest
I tried to read your article but it infuriated me in the overall context presented. Reading it in another context it probably would just be frustrating. In summary sex is holy( may it should be done in church), as it creates children , and fun when it does not- thank you for that opinion. II) As for intent we are okay with the intent as we use a different “means” - you kidnapping* money hungry * III) Is NFP really contraception? - Of course not and to prove it will discuss “spontaneity” - assumes that I am to dump to under stand the direct answer spontaneity provides to contraception - hint look up the meaning of the word “Planning” it is the “P” in NFP. Frankly, I read Freud and have much respect for him but he should not be in this discussion. Nor does the prevention of birth of 1.1 million Muslims appear a religious victory to me.
- reference to article comments
I know this was not your intent, thanks for the attempt.
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Julianna
Guest
I owe you an apology…I did not mean to lump you in any one catagory. For that I am sorry. Experience is the best teacher.
I based my OPINION on the “asking if this or that” is a sin…on the many posts I have read throughout this forum.
So a woman who asks a question, and dares to think for herself is a feminist? I myself have never been able to find out just what a feminist is, I only know that I am called a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat.
How is living a spirit filled Christian life beneficial if it done with guilt, fire and damnation? Seems a fundy-evangelical approach. How can we teach as Jesus did, if we don’t come to the table as little children and ask a question, or present a thought without fear of being reprimanded with 1000 pages of canon law raining down on our soul? How can approach the sacraments as an outward sign of grace, if we don’t ask a question? This was my initial thought, when you posed the question.
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Peter_DiMitri
Guest
I understand, and thanks for the apology. We all sometimes jump to conclusions.
Well, you’re phrasing is definitely what I associate with feminist phrasing. “Dare to think for herself”, “differentiate me from a doormat”; these phrases are classically feminist in that they pose exaggerated and false choices (in my view of course). In any case, I just said that your approach does sound like feminism to me.
Okay, but you are going a little over the top here. It’s not about “guilt, fire and damnation”. I understand that there are different schools of thought, and that some Catholics – perhaps even the majority of them – take a “Cafeteria” approach to the faith and interpolate their own politics/views/desires and try to determine for themselves what they think is right or wrong regardless of Church teaching.
I’m not in that category. I believe that the Church was founded by Jesus Christ. I believe the Pope is infallible in matters of Doctrine or Morals. That means (to me) that when I disagree with a matter of Doctrine or Morals that I’m wrong. Obviously, you see it differently.
My main objection of course, was that you spoke for me. But I gladly accept your apology, even though I differ somewhat in what I consider to be “faithful”.
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LittleDeb
Guest
Uh oh,
I am jumping in where I might not belong again. But here goes: Head-long with both feet!!
I have a checkered past. So checkered in fact, that you could make a kilt out of it. (I am seamstress, believe me I know. They take yards and yards! That’s meters and meters to you Brits and Aussies!) Catholic all of my life. I came through the back door into this understanding on the body and our relationship to God through our bodies. God gave us the front door. I ignored it.
There are too many things going in too many directions right now. Please slow down and take them one at a time. God has a design. It is our job as His creation to use that design according to His order for it. To know how to use it, we must first understand it. That is the underlying principle to Pope John Paul’s Theology of the Body. There is no new information there. It is just a wonderful description by a holy, inspired pope.
Why now? Why did He, Jesus, and he, the pope, make this teaching more crystal clear now? What sort of attack is our sexuality under right now that is worse than ever before? What is going on that has made women more “door-matted” than any other time in history? We are supposedly more free now than ever. So what is it about our sexual nature as men and women that is so completely under attack?
Semen has a design. It is to carry sperm. If sperm is not present, it doesn’t change the design of semen. Nor does it change the design of the penis. (That sentence just doesn’t work because the visual is just plain funny. But I don’t know how to fix it.
)
Let’s talk about this. God wants us to have all of that wonderful, fun sex within His perfect design. The marital union on earth is just a little, little, glimmer of the marital union of Christ and His Bride,The Church. Please, let’s remember who our role models are for marriage. Christ and His Church. If they don’t belong in our bedrooms then neither do we.
I am jumping in where I might not belong again. But here goes: Head-long with both feet!!
I have a checkered past. So checkered in fact, that you could make a kilt out of it. (I am seamstress, believe me I know. They take yards and yards! That’s meters and meters to you Brits and Aussies!) Catholic all of my life. I came through the back door into this understanding on the body and our relationship to God through our bodies. God gave us the front door. I ignored it.
There are too many things going in too many directions right now. Please slow down and take them one at a time. God has a design. It is our job as His creation to use that design according to His order for it. To know how to use it, we must first understand it. That is the underlying principle to Pope John Paul’s Theology of the Body. There is no new information there. It is just a wonderful description by a holy, inspired pope.
Why now? Why did He, Jesus, and he, the pope, make this teaching more crystal clear now? What sort of attack is our sexuality under right now that is worse than ever before? What is going on that has made women more “door-matted” than any other time in history? We are supposedly more free now than ever. So what is it about our sexual nature as men and women that is so completely under attack?
Semen has a design. It is to carry sperm. If sperm is not present, it doesn’t change the design of semen. Nor does it change the design of the penis. (That sentence just doesn’t work because the visual is just plain funny. But I don’t know how to fix it.
)Let’s talk about this. God wants us to have all of that wonderful, fun sex within His perfect design. The marital union on earth is just a little, little, glimmer of the marital union of Christ and His Bride,The Church. Please, let’s remember who our role models are for marriage. Christ and His Church. If they don’t belong in our bedrooms then neither do we.
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setter
Guest
Apparently you cannot see your own self-contradiction which is readily evident in your posts on these CA forums. Contrast your above highlighted statements with the your below highlighted statements from a previous related thread. A crucial point that you repeatidly omit: It not only a matter of knowing the Church’s teaching, but a matter of attempting to live out faithfully the Church’s teachings and seeking forgiveness when one fails.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1483404#post1483404
Were you not fully informed before taking on the faith what it means to be a Catholic in good standing with the Church? Again, to learn, explore and study the teahings of the Church is a very commendable and responsible apsect of livng out one’s Catholic faith. To knowingly continue in grave sin once taking on the profession of being a Catholic is a self-contradictory and untenable position to take if one wants to consider themself a faithful and serious Catholic. No personal offense intended, I am only telling you matter of fact what it means to be a Catholic.
God only asks of us once we have been made aware of our sin and sought His forgiveness, that we make an honest effort to “go, and do not sin again”. (John 8: 11)
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gogogirl
Guest
Why is it so important to you to bring in an unrelated thread? It has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I am well aware that oral sex to completion is a sin. That should be quite evident from my posts in this thread. I don’t see why you feel such a need to continue to beat me over the head with things. I really don’t see that my personal beliefs are that contradictory. Frankly, my attitude is that as long as you don’t do anything to deliberately prevent conception what is the problem. I see NFP as deliberately preventing conception. I do not feel that oral sex as it is approached by my husband and I is so wrong. It is not done to replace the sex act. It is done in addition to. If you read all of my posts in the other thread, you might understand where I am coming from.
As a matter of fact, the priest that taught the RCIA class emphasized free will and learning and understanding the teachings. He never ever presented it such that I had to completely abandon myself to the church or go straight to hell. He always emphasized doing the best that we can. If he had presented things the way you have, I would have run from the church screaming. From what you have stated, I was very poorly catechized. That is fine. I am following my conscience and trying to learn and study like the priest recommended. I hold my priests opinion in much higher esteem than I do yours. Are you a priest or do you have any religious training? I have confessed to my struggles in the past and the priests have always been very understanding, loving, and forgiving.
For the record, I have completely quit referring to myself as Catholic on these forums so I wish you would leave it alone. Hey, if it would make you happy, I will completely renounce Catholocism altogether. But, even if I do that, it is not going to stop me from continuing to study it and try to understand it so that I can someday consider myself Catholic again because I will be following out of a complete understanding rather than blind obedience. I will continue to share on these forums because I have been given the indication by several people that they share some of the same struggles that I do. If you have a problem with this, I apologize. If you would like me to cease posting, please let me know. It is obvious that you think I am stupid.
To you, everything is as obvious as the nose on your face. To me, it is not that obvious. Unless or until, I have a complete understanding and knowledge of things I do not intend to blindly follow anybody or anything. If you find that offensive, I apologize. You are making it very difficult for me to share my struggles and opinions with others so that maybe they can learn from my mistakes. Frankly, the more I converse here, the more of an understanding that I have. Again, I think it is rediculous that you continuously attack me. I AM NOT CATHOLIC SO PLEASE STOP TRYING TO CONVERT ME TO WHOM OR WHAT YOU THINK I SHOULD BE!!! I AM NOT CATHOLIC SO I AM NOT SUBJECT TO THE AUTHORITY OF THE CHURCH. Can I be any more clear?
I have tried to be completely clear about what is my opinion versus what the church teaches. I do not want anybody to mistake any of my own opinions or personal experiences as church teachings. If you see that I am blurring things or leaving things out, then please let me know.
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Texas_Roofer
Guest
setter
I would ask you to consider a different mind sit before you make such comments. I think she was not confused on the current church teachings, and she told you that. She and I see problems and/or contradictions in the church teaching on NFP verses other church teachings, and thus the discussion. We are trying to work that out. If you tell us a thousand times what the church teaches it is just a waste of time because we already knew that. What is desired is a base of understanding why this teaching is correct.
Here is an example "Why do married people need sex with out conception?, Please address the issue of the church teaching no one else needs sex. In fact these people did not need sex until they married, so what about marriage changed them in to sex needers? and if widowed what in them changes back to a person who no longer needs sex? .
Thanks for your help
I would ask you to consider a different mind sit before you make such comments. I think she was not confused on the current church teachings, and she told you that. She and I see problems and/or contradictions in the church teaching on NFP verses other church teachings, and thus the discussion. We are trying to work that out. If you tell us a thousand times what the church teaches it is just a waste of time because we already knew that. What is desired is a base of understanding why this teaching is correct.
Here is an example "Why do married people need sex with out conception?, Please address the issue of the church teaching no one else needs sex. In fact these people did not need sex until they married, so what about marriage changed them in to sex needers? and if widowed what in them changes back to a person who no longer needs sex? .
Thanks for your help
J
Julianna
Guest
To you, everything is as obvious as the nose on your face. To me, it is not that obvious. Unless or until, I have a complete understanding and knowledge of things I do not intend to blindly follow anybody or anything. If you find that offensive, I apologize. You are making it very difficult for me to share my struggles and opinions with others so that maybe they can learn from my mistakes. Frankly, the more I converse here, the more of an understanding that I have. Again, I think it is rediculous that you continuously attack me. I AM NOT CATHOLIC SO PLEASE STOP TRYING TO CONVERT ME TO WHOM OR WHAT YOU THINK I SHOULD BE!!! I AM NOT CATHOLIC SO I AM NOT SUBJECT TO THE AUTHORITY OF THE CHURCH. Can I be any more clear?
I have tried to be completely clear about what is my opinion versus what the church teaches. I do not want anybody to mistake any of my own opinions or personal experiences as church teachings. If you see that I am blurring things or leaving things out, then please let me know.
gogogirl…it’s called a guilt trip. That was the old way of doing things…if you could believe that you are the most horrible being on this earth for having a thought…then you must be stripped of that thought, by killing your spirit. In all the readings about Jesus, he only got ticked off once…the rest of the time, he was visiting with people that some of the people on here wouldn’t give the time of day to. He was constantly questioned for his association with tax collectors, partiers, hookers, and yes, Romans…geez louise…what a guy. Do you remember what he said, "if you are sick, don’t you need a doctor…? But remmber, he was not “heavy handed”. He even told the apostles, "if the town doesn’t want to listen, you can’t make them, dust off your shoes and move on…? Children and women back in the day were to be seen and not heard. Children, question everything and the people around Jesus were afraid he would suffer some embarassment if they were to ask a pointed question…maybe that he couldn’t answer…so the kidlets were not to approach him…well we all know what he said about that.
I have to wonder why these forums are here. Are they so like minded trad rads can nod their heads at each other in agreement that they follow the canon law to the letter? Is it because they need to evangelize the “liberal catholics” (not sure what that means…a duck is a duck) by beating them over the head with centuries old manuscript that would take a wall street lawyer to decifer to the “regular people”? I have often noticed the hostility towards women who dare to ask a question or think for themselves. I have been called a feminist. (amazing, strangers know everything about me, and have condemned me) I responded with I only know that I am called a feminist when I express senitments that differenciate me from a doormat. I doubt BVM was doormat…she is the strongest woman I know. I don’t think Mary Magdeline was a doormat either…or any of the other women that Jesus called to be with him.
How about this…so you are a questioning catholic and disagree with private issues. I will pray for you. case closed.
I have tried to be completely clear about what is my opinion versus what the church teaches. I do not want anybody to mistake any of my own opinions or personal experiences as church teachings. If you see that I am blurring things or leaving things out, then please let me know.
gogogirl…it’s called a guilt trip. That was the old way of doing things…if you could believe that you are the most horrible being on this earth for having a thought…then you must be stripped of that thought, by killing your spirit. In all the readings about Jesus, he only got ticked off once…the rest of the time, he was visiting with people that some of the people on here wouldn’t give the time of day to. He was constantly questioned for his association with tax collectors, partiers, hookers, and yes, Romans…geez louise…what a guy. Do you remember what he said, "if you are sick, don’t you need a doctor…? But remmber, he was not “heavy handed”. He even told the apostles, "if the town doesn’t want to listen, you can’t make them, dust off your shoes and move on…? Children and women back in the day were to be seen and not heard. Children, question everything and the people around Jesus were afraid he would suffer some embarassment if they were to ask a pointed question…maybe that he couldn’t answer…so the kidlets were not to approach him…well we all know what he said about that.
I have to wonder why these forums are here. Are they so like minded trad rads can nod their heads at each other in agreement that they follow the canon law to the letter? Is it because they need to evangelize the “liberal catholics” (not sure what that means…a duck is a duck) by beating them over the head with centuries old manuscript that would take a wall street lawyer to decifer to the “regular people”? I have often noticed the hostility towards women who dare to ask a question or think for themselves. I have been called a feminist. (amazing, strangers know everything about me, and have condemned me) I responded with I only know that I am called a feminist when I express senitments that differenciate me from a doormat. I doubt BVM was doormat…she is the strongest woman I know. I don’t think Mary Magdeline was a doormat either…or any of the other women that Jesus called to be with him.
How about this…so you are a questioning catholic and disagree with private issues. I will pray for you. case closed.
G
gogogirl
Guest
Thank you!
I know I keep referring to an old moral theology book that was written in 1957 but it is really helping me to understand some of these issues. From what I understand, the church recognizes everybody’s need/desire for sex. That is why we have marriage.
It isn’t that we don’t all have the need or desire, it is just that sex is for procreation. You cannot have sex without the possibility of procreating. It is basically saying don’t have sex until you can take care of your offspring in a proper and fitting manner. I have yet to see any kind of child spacing, birth control, or whatever you want to call it that is one hundred percent effective. Sex equals possible child no matter what “method” you are using unless there are circumstances such as infertility.
In the book that I am reading, it recognizes that you cannot separate sex from procreation. Since the possible/probable outcome of sex is a child, the church requires sex to be done within the bounds of marriage for the sake of the children. If people went around having sex with whomever they wanted, there would be a bunch of children born without two parents to constantly care for them and love them. Caring for children is a two person job. While it is possible for a single parent to raise children, the optimal situation would be for children to have two loving and committed parents.
Please do not take this as church teaching. This is just MY understanding of the teachings based upon what I have read. Also, I don’t want any single parents to take offense. My sister is a single parent and I know she would love it if the father of her children were responsible enough to be around and help with the care of the children.
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Listener
Guest
I have to say this is an interesting thread. Has anyone considered what Jesus said about marriage? He said “They shall be two in one flesh!” That is all He said. Notice that there is nothing in this statement about having to have a certain number of children or going on a guilt trip because you’re not in your fertile time.
For all of you who think sex within marriage is just loaded with guilt, what are you going to say to those of us who are past the age of menopause? There must be something we can feel guilty about, or I guess we wouldn’t be normal Catholics.
For all of you who think sex within marriage is just loaded with guilt, what are you going to say to those of us who are past the age of menopause? There must be something we can feel guilty about, or I guess we wouldn’t be normal Catholics.
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RyanL
Guest
Um…are you serious? I haven’t read any of your other posts, so I’m guessing you’re being funny? You’re sentiments are 180 degrees away from my experience, so I can only figure that you’re either being funny or simply haven’t been paying attention. If you’re being funny, a few smiley faces would help clue others in. If you haven’t been paying attention, may I suggest you start doing so now?
God Bless,
RyanL
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RyanL
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setter
Guest
The “topic” is directly related, see your post #4 where you directly linked the two.
…as I have already posted as such.I have read all your other OS related posts …If you can’t stand the community interaction of fellow Catholics simply citing Church teaching in matters of sexual morality, then …
The Church (and God) accepts each one of us exactly where we are at, and thank goodness for this! But, the Church (and God) loves us too much to leave us where we are at, and thank goodness for this! I cannot comprehend a competent Catholic priest “accepting” one into full communion with the Church if that person is unable to profess assent to of the Church’s teachings in matters of faith and morals, especially involving grave matters of sin (whether beliefs or behaviors). I thought that this is what it means to become a Catholic. Please correct me if I am wrong.
You are taking this way too personally.
As Catholics we do submit to Christ’s Lordship given to us through authoritative Church teaching in a trusting and obedient faith relationship with the person of Jesus Christ.
With this said, I will unplug myself from further posting to you on this thread, since you seem to be taking my feedback way too personally and can only be counterproductive at this point.
S
setter
Guest
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