Question about stealing and salvation

  • Thread starter Thread starter natedagw824
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
N

natedagw824

Guest
Hello everyone,

I have a question about stealing and the potential, eternal effects. We all know the commad from God: Thou shalt not steal. Well, do any of you “download” music for free off the internet?
I’m a college student and I’ve been “downloading” music, games, movies and software since the days of Napster.
When it comes to statistics, I’m not the only one who does this. On a filesharing website, it shows that around 90million people are illegally downloading in America ALONE. Since this is considered stealing, can I go to hell if I don’t repent?
I will say this again: Millions are doing it; I’m not the only one. Heck, even my counselor at school downloads. My philosophy is this: Those record executives have been ripping us off for years! They make too much money anyway.
I could be right, yet I could be wrong. You may have even downloaded something illegally once in your life. Tell me your experiences and give me some feedback.

Thank you,

Nathan D. Brown =)
 
Church teaching is very clear.

A mortal sin requires serious matter, full knowledge, and full consent of the will.

Stealing is a serious matter - it is one of the ten commandments.

You are fully aware that this is stealing - that you are taking something created by somebody else. It is against the law, and you are robbing someone of the money due them for their hard work. That is full knowledge.

You clearly have full consent of the will - this is not accidental downloading. This is not being forced to steal by someone who has power or authority over you. It’s not even “I needed to steal bread for my poor hungry family.” You are choosing to disobey the law, because it is easy, because it is commonly done, and because it benefits you.

Therefore, this is a mortal sin. That everybody does it does not make it right.

The Church and Scripture teach that Hell is the consequence for unrepented sin. The Church also teaches that fear of hell is vastly inferior to the desire to please God. Which is more important to you - obeying your Savior who died on the cross for you, or a cheap movie? If you think about it that way, I’m sure you will have no problem realizing that what you are doing is just silly! 🙂 It’s an easy (relatively) sin to give one, and Jesus will be so proud of you when you do.

And yes, when I was a teenager, I downloaded music illegally, because “we all did it” - this was even before anyone was thinking about lawsuits and what not. But now that I have come to repentance and the desire to live a holy life for Jesus, I do not. my soul is worth more to me that a 99 cent song download.

I applaud you for bringing this issue into the light, and I pray that Jesus will give you the courage to do what’s right, for His sake. 👍
 
Thanks so much for replying to my post! Yes, I think this is an important issue. Yes, you are right about it being a sin. Ya see, I desire to be holy: I go to mass and confession every saturday. And, yes, I pray my rosary.
I guess I will confess this mortal sin to my confessor and throw out all my DVDs. This is gonna be a very hard thing for me to do. GR.
But, like you, I want to serve Jesus and live a holy life.

I welcome more feedback from you all. I also welcome your opinions!

Thanks,

Nathan =)
 
I never download music because I don’t listen to them.

But quite a while ago I realized making copies with the company copy machine and printing online articles with company printer are stealing. I confessed the sin and have never done it since. Now even if I just have one page of copy to make, I’ll drive to Staples to make the copy. I think this is in the same nature of downloading music.
 
Actually I thought the gravity of stealing was based on what the value/situation of what was being stolen. I’ve never heard that because its against one of the 10 commandments that automatically makes it serious matter. Almost every sin is against the 10 commandments in some way.

Stealing bread cause your starving to death is not a sin. Stealing Gum is a very trivial sin. Stealing a starving mans bread differently seriously sinful. Stealing a car definitely seriously sinful. Downloading music if you own the CD not even stealing. Downloading music I would ask my confessor but would be seriously surprised if it was a mortal sin.

As to the copy machine thing, all the offices I’ve ever worked in didn’t care if I asked permission before I used the office equipment for personal use 😉
 
natedagw824 said:
Thanks so much for replying to my post! Yes, I think this is an important issue. Yes, you are right about it being a sin. Ya see, I desire to be holy: I go to mass and confession every saturday. And, yes, I pray my rosary.
I guess I will confess this mortal sin to my confessor and throw out all my DVDs. This is gonna be a very hard thing for me to do. GR.
But, like you, I want to serve Jesus and live a holy life.

I welcome more feedback from you all. I also welcome your opinions!

Thanks,

Nathan =)
Click to expand...
I would talk to you confessor before tossing stuff 🙂
 
LJN21 said:
As to the copy machine thing, all the offices I’ve ever worked in didn’t care if I asked permission before I used the office equipment for personal use 😉
Click to expand...
I never thought about asking for permission. But when I made my confession, the confessor did not say it was not a sin, though I know it is not a mortal sin.
 
I have to respectfully disagree. Downloading a $20 movie is without a doubt a mortal sin - just like walking up to the pocket of one of the actors and taking a twenty dollar bill out “just because” would be a mortal sin.

But I agree that you should speak with your confessor.

And even if it were a venial sin, it is still a sin without a doubt - and Jesus calls us away from all sin. Nathan, you obviously have been called to be free from sin, so I encourage you to do what is right 😃
 
RachelB said:
I have to respectfully disagree. Downloading a $20 movie is without a doubt a mortal sin - just like walking up to the pocket of one of the actors and taking a twenty dollar bill out “just because” would be a mortal sin.

But I agree that you should speak with your confessor.

And even if it were a venial sin, it is still a sin without a doubt - and Jesus calls us away from all sin. Nathan, you obviously have been called to be free from sin, so I encourage you to do what is right 😃
Click to expand...
newadvent.org/cathen/14564b.htm
The sin of theft is of itself grievous, because it violates the great virtues of justice and charity. St. Paul (1 Corinthians 6:10) enumerates it as one of the transgressions which bars the offender from the kingdom of heaven. Still, as happens with regard to other delinquencies, its guilt may often be venial. This is particularly true when the value of what is filched is inconsiderable, or as the theologians say, is not grave matter. The determination of what is grave matter, whose taking, namely, is prohibited under pain of mortal sin, is beset with great difficulties and has offered room for widespread difference of opinion. It is agreed, however, that a distinction is to be drawn between relatively and absolutely grave matter. The grievousness of theft seems to depend on the way in which the purposes which make the respecting of property rights obligatory are set at naught. These ends are, first the preservation of peace and harmony among individuals, and then the guaranteeing of the security of human society, as well as the providing an incentive for each one to pursue an industrious career. A man who steals may bid defiance to either or both of these ends. So far as the first is concerned it is obvious that the unjust appropriation of goods to such a value as to destroy this concord and furnish reasonable ground for great sorrow to the owner must be reputed a mortal sin. That amount is clearly not a constant quantity. It will vary according to the circumstances of the person injured as well as of place and time in which commodities may be more or less valuable. It will even take account of the special relationship which perchance the thief holds to the one he has despoiled, as when children steal from their parents. The sum so ascertained is termed the relatively grave matter. Thus the theft of an amount equal to a day’s wages from an ordinary artisan would unquestionably be a mortal sin. The same thing must be said of the taking of an insignificant sum from a beggar. Theologians teach that this method of establishing the grievousness of theft cannot be employed indefinitely and exclusively. There is an absolute sum which it is always a mortal sin to take even from the wealthiest person or corporation. Were this not so the very fabric of human society would be imperilled, the stimulus to labour and enterprise extinguished, and the axe laid to the root of that confidence which must accompany human intercourse.
Click to expand...
Taking $20 out of a rich mans pocket would not be a mortal sin.
 
Yeah…you are all posting some very interesting replies. I am definitly talking to my confessor on Saturday.
More feedback is whole-heartly welcome!
 
natedagw824 said:
Hello everyone,

I have a question about stealing and the potential, eternal effects. We all know the commad from God: Thou shalt not steal. Well, do any of you “download” music for free off the internet?
I’m a college student and I’ve been “downloading” music, games, movies and software since the days of Napster.
When it comes to statistics, I’m not the only one who does this. On a filesharing website, it shows that around 90million people are illegally downloading in America ALONE. Since this is considered stealing, can I go to hell if I don’t repent?
I will say this again: Millions are doing it; I’m not the only one. Heck, even my counselor at school downloads. My philosophy is this: Those record executives have been ripping us off for years! They make too much money anyway.
I could be right, yet I could be wrong. You may have even downloaded something illegally once in your life. Tell me your experiences and give me some feedback.

Thank you,

Nathan D. Brown =)
Click to expand...
I don’t think its as straightforward as you might think. I believe the majority of young people who download have no clue that it is illegal and if that’s the case then they are not sinning. Also in Canada and Holland it is legal to download music and movies from the internet, and in other countries its a grey area. So nobody can say clearly if you download music from the internet its stealing.
 
natedagw824 said:
I have a question about stealing and the potential, eternal effects. We all know the commad from God: Thou shalt not steal. Well, do any of you “download” music for free off the internet?
Click to expand...
No, I don’t and never have. It’s illegal and immoral.
natedagw824 said:
Since this is considered stealing, can I go to hell if I don’t repent?
Click to expand...
Well, yes. If you are aware something is wrong and do it anyway-- that’s sinning. If it’s grave matter-- which the cumulative stealing of many items over a period of time can be-- then yes you must repent and confess. You need to talk to your priest.
natedagw824 said:
I will say this again: Millions are doing it; I’m not the only one. Heck, even my counselor at school downloads. My philosophy is this: Those record executives have been ripping us off for years! They make too much money anyway.
Click to expand...
Um, morality is not based on your opinion or on how many others are doing it.

Millions of people get abortions every year-- do you think someone should conclude that abortion is OK based on its frequency of occurrence in America?
natedagw824 said:
. Tell me your experiences and give me some feedback.
Click to expand...
I think you are trying to rationalize that you are stealing. Go talk to your priest.
 
thistle said:
Also in Canada and Holland it is legal to download music and movies from the internet, and in other countries its a grey area.
Click to expand...
Legality does not equate to morality. Abortion and euthanasia are legal in Holland and they are still gravely wrong.
thistle said:
So nobody can say clearly if you download music from the internet its stealing.
Click to expand...
You are quite mistaken. Using copyrighted material without paying for it or without the author’s permission is stealing.
 
I agree that this is obviously wrong, immoral, and sinful.

Whether it’s mortal or venial…how can I know that about another person? Do I really know the degree of ones consent? Can I really know that someone is fully informed or if popular culture has warped their perception to the degree that mortal sin is hardly possible for them in this matter?

To me the biggest concern was “**since this is considered stealing, can I go to hell for this if I don’t repent?” **

Let’s put it this way, you can’t get into Heaven if you don’t repent. God’s not letting anyone in to His kingdom while they cling to even the smallest attachments to sin. So, if someone won’t let go of the sin, if they are to prideful and demand that God recognise some action as acceptable that He has decided isn’t…then even a very tiny sin can put a man in hell. (though magnified of course by the major sin of pride of thinking their judgement equal to God’s)
 
Cradle said:
Excuse me? That is not what the article is saying. :eek:
Click to expand...
The artical says that the degree of the sin is based on the value and the relation of the Value to the person it is taken form.

Taking $20 form a rich guy is a sin, but not mortally so. (Well unless your going to use it to by food to keep your family form starving to death). Taking $20 form a poor man would most likely be a mortal.
 
I apologize if I’m rationalizing. I just think it’s an interesting thing to talk about. Yes, I am very religous, but we have to remember that no one on this earth is perfect. yes, I did talk to my priest about, like I usually do. Yes, stealing IS stealing. Yes, I have repented.

My priest said it is very clear about church teaching on stealing. Basically he said that if you steal from someone you should make reparation to them. Or if you steal and you have repented you should give it to the poor. That’s what he told me. So, I think I might take my many burned DVDs and give them to the salvation army.
This will probably be a very hard thing for me to do, but I guess I’ll have to do it.

And finally, I am not trying to rationalize my stealing. Again, I apologize if it came off that way.

I would like to say one more thing though. I think there is a big difference between downloading an MP3 and having an abortion. When one has an abortion, that unbaptized baby goes to a place called limbo(that’s what my dad has told me). So, that child is deprived of heaven because he/she is not baptized. When you download an mp3, you can delete it later on and go to confession. However, once a baby is dead. You can’t bring them back to life.I think God is a lot more concerned with all of the abortions in the world, then people infringing on copyright law.

Thanks for responding to my post,

Nathan =)
 
natedagw824 said:
II would like to say one more thing though. I think there is a big difference between downloading an MP3 and having an abortion.
Click to expand...
]

Yes, of course there is a difference.

However, the *basis *upon which you postured that taking the music was not wrong-- the fact that it is legal in some places-- is the same basis on which some people argue that abortion is not wrong.

It is not a good basis on which to argue morality-- that was my point.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top