Question about sterilization

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To the OP: do not have a vasectomy. If your wife wants to disobey the church, let her to the disobeying herself. (Try to dissuade her, of course.)

Before Dkoinzan jumps in, no, it is not a sin to share the marital embrace with her if she is contracepting or sterilized, as long as you have tried to get her to comply with Church teaching. (That’s from the Ask an Apologist forum.)

Dkoinzan is wrong. We do not have to “repair” our sins. that would be unreasonable.

We have to atone for them, here or in purgatory. There are many ways to atone for a sterilization, like donating to, or volunteering for pro-life causes. Or fasting, or penitential prayer, or… etc.

I have seen it on Ask an Apologist forum more than once that a sterilization does not have to be undone.

Ruthie
 
duskyjewel said:
If the priest is any kind of good priest, then he will speak to the OP about both sins… sterilization and presumption.

If the priest is any kind of good priest, he also will tell the OP what his inclination would be as to a penance for either or both of those sins. But he would also say that he cannot say for sure what penance he would give to any individual in the confessional before actually talking to said person, examining their conscience and reasons for sinning, determining how much culpability the person has (as in, if their choice was not totally free, influenced by outside pressure, unreasonable fear, traumatic history, ignorance, etc…), and finding out whether the person is really sorry and repentant.
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This sounds like a good priest. At any rate he would be talking to more of an expert than any of us. I would not advise anyone that they can go get sterilized and assume they will then just go to confession and they won’t have to reverse it. Go talk to the priest before getting sterilized and make sure you follow through with what the priest asks you to do.
 
Don’t assume I would jump in and say to share the marital embrace is sinful. That isn’t true. Nor would I say it was. I also would never look at my husband and say, “Well your not Catholic you take care of it.” My husband has threatened that very thing and fortunately we live in a state were he would have to get my signature to do it. I have already said I would never sign.

We do have to offer reparation for our sins. In some way we are obligated to try to repair the damage we have done and ONE way to offer reparation for sterilization is to get it reversed. YES there are others, but don’t assume that will be your penance because it very well may not be. Go talk to a Priest!
 
dkoinzan said:
Just because one person has received a certain penance does not mean that that penance is a blanket for everyone. To tell someone that they wouldn’t have to reverse it is irresponsible. Following that thinking, I could do what ever I wanted as long as I could find myself a priest that would forgive me and let me off the hook. If your priest advises that you certainly follow it, but don’t go telling someone else, I got off without having to reverse the situation and you can too. That isn’t very charitable or truthful.
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I’ve seen this very topic asked here and the priest said that you would not have to get a reversal. I’ve never heard of a priest requiring a reversal.
 
Ruthie said:
To the OP: do not have a vasectomy. If your wife wants to disobey the church, let her to the disobeying herself. (Try to dissuade her, of course.)

Before Dkoinzan jumps in, no, it is not a sin to share the marital embrace with her if she is contracepting or sterilized, as long as you have tried to get her to comply with Church teaching. (That’s from the Ask an Apologist forum.)

Dkoinzan is wrong. We do not have to “repair” our sins. that would be unreasonable.

We have to atone for them, here or in purgatory. There are many ways to atone for a sterilization, like donating to, or volunteering for pro-life causes. Or fasting, or penitential prayer, or… etc.

I have seen it on Ask an Apologist forum more than once that a sterilization does not have to be undone.

Ruthie
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I second everything that Ruthie just said! 👍

To the OP: I am so sorry that you have such a heavy cross to bear. I too have lost children because of my health problems and know how painful it is. I hope you will try to learn NFP as it is better (health-wise and spiritually) for both of you!

And I just also wanted to say that the story of your miracle daughter was very encouraging for me in my own struggle with infertility. I know she must make all the pain a little less. :hug1:

God bless,

kevinsgirl
 
Lee_M said:
I’ve seen this very topic asked here and the priest said that you would not have to get a reversal. I’ve never heard of a priest requiring a reversal.
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Judging from the stated location, I think dkoinzan may be in the Diocese of Lincoln, widely known as the most conservative diocese in the nation. Maybe the priests there do give that as a penance… but I too have never actually heard of it, and have seen the questions in AAA and the Apologetics forum stating categorically that a reversal is not necessary to receive absolution for the sin of having oneself sterilized. But, as I said before, it would become necessary if the priest made it part of your penance. I just can’t imagine why he would do that. If someone was extremely rich, did it in full knowledge and for completely selfish reasons? Like, my figure will get ruined and I won’t be able to go on the yacht in the Mediterranean over the summer? Most people who get desperate enough to make that choice do it because they have difficulties that are not going to go away and to which they can’t see another solution. Whether they are wrong about that is another topic. But I can’t see a compassionate priest taking a struggling person’s life from difficult to impossible. Priests shouldn’t be Pharisaical, either.
 
SavedByHim said:
With fear of really dragging this thread off topic, I think the question is not one of whether or not one should have a vasectomy reversed, but one of, Does the person fully understand church teaching on the matter, choose to disregard that teaching and sin anyways, thinking he/she can then just go to confession later?

A person cannot sin with the intent of going to confession afterwards — that is the sin of presumption, no? A person cannot say “I know murder is a sin, but gosh this person really annoys me so I’m going to pop him off and just go to confession afterwards and I will be forgiven.”

Does this make sense?
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Thank you!!! Excellent advise!!!
 
Thank you for everyones suggestions and comments. Please do not think that I somehow think it is OK to go in for the procedure and then confess it later, because that is one of the perks of being a catholic.:eek: In no way do I think this. My wife was raised Catholic, and was pulled out of the Catholic church when she was 12 or 13. She has been pumped full of lies by her family about the Catholic church. This is a very long story but 20 years back there was a priest who decided to have an affair with a married woman, and soon left the church, or was kicked out and decided to feed the congregation with a bunch of lies and pulled 1/2 of them out of the church and to his new formed “Alternative Catholic” church. My wife’s family was part of this.

It has taken me 6+ years to get her to consider coming back to the Catholic church with me and she has made huge strides in the right direction. Even though her family is very opposed to what she is doing, and constantly trying to get her to “come to her senses.” She went through the RCIA program with me and has been very active in the church. However she still has great animosity when it comes to this situation. Deep down in my heart I know that I cannot as a catholic do this. But in order to keep my family together, to keep my daughter from being thrown in the middle of a divorce, to keep my wife in the Catholic faith (even though she still has many hurdles to climb) I have a hard time seeing any other choice. If it means me taking on this sin, in order to prevent another sin and a broken home, how do I have a choice?😦

The only thing that we have complete control over is making the right decisions, and I have tried to live my life according to this. But in this case, I don’t know what that right decision is.
 
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Christopher West’s keen grasp of John Paul II’s theology of the body and his ability to make it accessible to others is changing lives, strengthening marriages, and renewing people’s faith in the Church across the country and internationally. He is on the front lines of the new evangelization and his message should be heard by all.
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I am familiar with the excellent work Christopher West has done and continues to do promoting Catholic teaching on life and love, especially as given to us by Pope John Paul II in his “theology of the body.” I am grateful to count him among the faithful of the Diocese of Harrisburg and to encourage one and all to listen with an open heart to the message of hope he brings.
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The vibrancy of Christopher West, his infectious enthusiasm and penetrating understanding of the thought of Pope John Paul II is well-known to those who have heard his lectures and tapes. The public needs to hear what the Holy Father thinks on issues of sexuality, marriage, and celibacy and West has generously committed his considerable talents to making this a possibility.
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Professor of Life Issues, Sacred Heart Major Seminary, Detroit
 
Longview1818 said:
Thank you for everyones suggestions and comments. Please do not think that I somehow think it is OK to go in for the procedure and then confess it later, because that is one of the perks of being a catholic.:eek: In no way do I think this. My wife was raised Catholic, and was pulled out of the Catholic church when she was 12 or 13. She has been pumped full of lies by her family about the Catholic church. This is a very long story but 20 years back there was a priest who decided to have an affair with a married woman, and soon left the church, or was kicked out and decided to feed the congregation with a bunch of lies and pulled 1/2 of them out of the church and to his new formed “Alternative Catholic” church. My wife’s family was part of this.

It has taken me 6+ years to get her to consider coming back to the Catholic church with me and she has made huge strides in the right direction. Even though her family is very opposed to what she is doing, and constantly trying to get her to “come to her senses.” She went through the RCIA program with me and has been very active in the church. However she still has great animosity when it comes to this situation. Deep down in my heart I know that I cannot as a catholic do this. But in order to keep my family together, to keep my daughter from being thrown in the middle of a divorce, to keep my wife in the Catholic faith (even though she still has many hurdles to climb) I have a hard time seeing any other choice. If it means me taking on this sin, in order to prevent another sin and a broken home, how do I have a choice?😦

The only thing that we have complete control over is making the right decisions, and I have tried to live my life according to this. But in this case, I don’t know what that right decision is.
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Your assumption that you get the vasectomy and everything is then all right may be true and may be not. I bet it runs deeper than this. I would not choose the lesser of two evils. I would do the right thing and then pray to God to take care of the rest. He’ll do better than you will.

While waiting (because sometimes He takes awhile or so it seems) I would take another poster’s suggestion and learn TOB and ask your wife to learn it, too. Will she do that? Start with what is in front of you.
 
duskyjewel said:
However your confessor directs you to do so… the only penance required for absolution to be complete is that assigned by the priest hearing the confession. If the family sterilized for financial reasons, feeling real pressure and fear, but then the regret and sadness of knowing they sinned overwhelmed them and they went to confession, how cruel would it be for the priest to tell that person they are not allowed to make love to their spouse unless they get it reversed? Sterilization is covered by insurance. Reversal is not and costs thousands. No compassionate priest would give an impossible penance. Nor would he ascribe sin where there is none, as in loving marital relations.

You must repair what you can in the way you are directed by your confessor. If reversal is not possible or feasible, it is not necessary. Even if it is possible or feasible, if the confessor does not require it as penance, it is not necessary.

Be careful what you tell people, or they may avoid the blessings of going to confession based on your erroneous words!
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Thanks for typing almost word for word what I was going to! 🙂 Yes, this is true. As part of our penance, our priest did not require either of us to reverse the vasectomy. And, yes, we did know about the church law when we did the vasectomy. That’s why we had to go to confession afterward.
 
Longview,

My heart and prayers go out to you and your family. One thing that has concerned me, however, and which no one has mentioned yet, is that you mentioned your wife using birth control. If this is hormonal birth control, such as a pill or patch, then it is especially harmful–not only is it a sin to use as a contraceptive, but most hormonal forms of birth control act as an abortifacient as well. If the hormones do not succeed in preventing ovulation, then they often have a back-up mechanism of expelling the fertilized egg from the womb. So while your wife is on the pill (if that is the case), then the two of you may be conceiving and aborting children if you have relations during her fertile period.

Just thought I would point that out, since I believe that as a Catholic struggling to be faithful to the Church and your wife, you should definitely know this important information.

God bless you in this trying time.
 
Twice you have mentioned that the sin of vasectomy would prevent the sin of divorce.

If your wife chose to divorce you because you will not have a vasectomy, any sin would be on her part.

I’d very much suggest marriage counseling with an orthodox Catholic counselor. www.exceptionalmarriages.com would give you a place to start.

Prayers!
 
Honestly, if the aunt doesn’t mind, I wouldn’t say a thing. It is really none of your business (I don’t mean that to sound harsh, so I’m sorry if it came across that way.) But, you are a guest in your aunt’s house. If you are uncomfortable there, I would suggest you get a hotel/motel room instead.

PS-Good luck at college!
 
SavedByHim said:
With fear of really dragging this thread off topic, I think the question is not one of whether or not one should have a vasectomy reversed, but one of, Does the person fully understand church teaching on the matter, choose to disregard that teaching and sin anyways, thinking he/she can then just go to confession later?

A person cannot sin with the intent of going to confession afterwards — that is the sin of presumption, no? A person cannot say “I know murder is a sin, but gosh this person really annoys me so I’m going to pop him off and just go to confession afterwards and I will be forgiven.”

Does this make sense?
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Yes, it makes sense. In this scenario, you have to confess the sin of vasectomy and also the sin of presumption. After that, receive your penance, perform it, and the issue is done. The only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Of course, when you confess the above sins, you must be sincere in your sorrow and repentance- which, I would be willing to bet, that any “good” Catholic who wilfully went against church teaching and had a vasectomy will be sincere in his sorrow and repentance. This is not a decision that is made lightly. I personally can relate. i consider myself a very trad. Catholic and after much angst and discussion with my priest, had a vasectomy 6 months ago. I won’t bother with the reasons why, suffice it to say, the reasons were/are grave and the decision was not made lightly. I am not happy about my decision and feel terrible about it. I immediatley confessed my sin and a week or two later realized that i was guilty of presumption- so I went and confessed that too.

I am scrupulous also, so I have confessed the vasectomy on numerous ocassions. No, we are not obligated to have reversal surgery.

I chose the vasectomy because it was a one time act of grave matter as opposed to using condoms, a grave act committed over and over. Or the pill, a grave act committed each day that it is taken.

Scripture clearly shows us through the prodigal son that a pereson can make a poor decision to directly disobey God, see the error of his ways, a return home to a feast. God will not turn him away.

And yes, the only penance we are required to perform for a vasectmy is that which the priest assigns. It would be pious, however to go above and beyond, with something else, such as a regular corporal work of mercy.
 
dkoinzan said:
Boy it would be easy if we could commit a mortal sin and then just confess it the next time we drop by, but it isn’t real. We still have to repair the damage of our sins and we are still held accountable. How do you repair sterilization? You go get it reversed. I am not saying being Catholic is easy. My husband is not Catholic and I flat out told him NFP or nothing. Try reading Christopher West’s books. They really helped me to better approach my husband about this issue. He won’t read the books, but over the past few years I have had the chance to talk to him and explain how God intends a marriage to be an image of him and that God’s rules aren’t to punish us, but are to keep us safe. I know it is hard to deliver a child who is dead. One of the hardest things I ever did was to kiss their little cold heads and say good bye, but they are still gifts even if there was great sorrow attached to the gift. I love those babies just as much as I do the ones that have lived and I wouldn’t ask that I not go through the experience of delivering them if it meant I could no longer be their parent. If you Mother and Father would have sterilized you wouldn’t have the opportunity at life and neither would you daughter.
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Which book by Christopher West do you suggest for just starting out?
 
PotassiumCl said:
Which book by Christopher West do you suggest for just starting out?
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I started with, “Theology of the Body for Beginners” and then read “Good News About Sex and Marriage.” They make reference to each other. I suppose you could read them in either order.
 
Ruthie said:
To the OP: do not have a vasectomy. If your wife wants to disobey the church, let her to the disobeying herself. (Try to dissuade her, of course.)

Before Dkoinzan jumps in, no, it is not a sin to share the marital embrace with her if she is contracepting or sterilized, as long as you have tried to get her to comply with Church teaching. (That’s from the Ask an Apologist forum.)

Dkoinzan is wrong. We do not have to “repair” our sins. that would be unreasonable.

We have to atone for them, here or in purgatory. There are many ways to atone for a sterilization, like donating to, or volunteering for pro-life causes. Or fasting, or penitential prayer, or… etc.

I have seen it on Ask an Apologist forum more than once that a sterilization does not have to be undone.

Ruthie
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So the question I have is…What if the husband insists on BC and you do not want to use it. Can you still have relations w/o sinning or is this only when sterilization (husband) or wife (pill/ IUD/ sterilization) ? Curious on my end, trying to get non Catholic husband to move to NFP…HELP!
 
I learned Naprotechnology on my own. My husband is not Catholic and isn’t all on board with NFP. He and I researched the problems with the pill. Check out Professor Janet Smith’s talks. He understood why I was so against the pill and wanted me healthy. Slowly he has come around to learning more about Napro. and agreed to use it. If he had not, the sin would have been his. I know for awhile he used a form of contraception and I just asked that if that is what he wanted to do, do it on the days when I am not fertile. As time has gone by he has learned more about “The Theology of the Body” and he can see the benefits. Behind the scene I prayed like crazy, went to at least an hour of adoration each week, and made many little sacrifices during the day. I figured if there were any tools that God have us for strength during hard times, I was going to take full advantage of them. I also went to as many daily Masses as I could and I was in the confessional a lot to make sure I was headed in the right direction. We use Napro only now.
 
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