Question about the baby Jesus' visitors in Matthew and Luke

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George_C

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I’m aware that the traditional number of visitors is three and that the Gospels don’t divulge how many actually visited Him.

Matthew calls the visitors from the east magi who followed a star to Bethlehem; Luke calls them shepherds, implies that they were already in the area, and says that an angel came to them with the news of Jesus’ birth.

The giving of gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh occur only in Matthew, while there is nothing of the sort in Luke.

Are these meant to be accounts of two different visits or the same account told from different points of view? :confused:
 
George_C said:
I’m aware that the traditional number of visitors is three and that the Gospels don’t divulge how many actually visited Him.

Matthew calls the visitors from the east magi who followed a star to Bethlehem; Luke calls them shepherds, implies that they were already in the area, and says that an angel came to them with the news of Jesus’ birth.

The giving of gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh occur only in Matthew, while there is nothing of the sort in Luke.

Are these meant to be accounts of two different visits or the same account told from different points of view? :confused:
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*Hi, George!

…actually you are describing two separate groups of visitors:
  1. The angels came to the shepherds, local citizens tending their animals (St. Luke 2:8-20); these are understood to have seen Jesus first since they were in the neighborhood. 😛
  2. The magi, no doubt learned people who studied astrology and the Holy Scriptures (St. Matthew 2:1-12); these were travelers who came from the East–their knowledge and wealth allowed them the trip and the gifts that they brought to baby Jesus; coincidentally, their gifts represent: Gold: Jesus’ Kingship; Frankincense: Jesus’ Priesthood; Myrrh: Christ’s Martyrdom.
Maran atha!

Angel*
 
George_C said:
Thank you, J. :cool: This clears up this week’s confuzzlement. :eek:
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…glad to have been of assistance… by the way or is it btw; that’s an excellent philosophy to have since life’s full of such episodes! 👍

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Quick quiz…

How do you think the Magi knew to find the child Jesus? What prophecy drew them there and who made it? The answer that I’m thinking of can be found in the Old Testament.
 
NotWorthy said:
Quick quiz…

How do you think the Magi knew to find the child Jesus? What prophecy drew them there and who made it? The answer that I’m thinking of can be found in the Old Testament.
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According to what little I know of them, two of the Dead Sea scrolls are astrological in nature and that they and prophesy p(name removed by moderator)ointed Jesus’ birth at a time when Jupiter and Saturn aligned.

However, also according to the theory, His birth was seven years earlier than traditionally given: April 17, 7 BC.
 
George_C said:
According to what little I know of them, two of the Dead Sea scrolls are astrological in nature and that they and prophesy p(name removed by moderator)ointed Jesus’ birth at a time when Jupiter and Saturn aligned.

However, also according to the theory, His birth was seven years earlier than traditionally given: April 17, 7 BC.
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Read Numbers 22 - 24. You’ll find that Balaam is from the East. It could be him.

Num 24:17-19 I see him, though not now; I behold him, though not near: A star shall advance from Jacob, and a staff shall rise from Israel, That shall smite the brows of Moab, and the skulls of all the Shuthites, Till Edom is dispossessed, and no fugitive is left in Seir. Israel shall do valiantly, and Jacob shall overcome his foes.**
 
NotWorthy said:
Read Numbers 22 - 24. You’ll find that Balaam is from the East. It could be him.

Num 24:17-19 I see him, though not now; I behold him, though not near: A star shall advance from Jacob, and a staff shall rise from Israel, That shall smite the brows of Moab, and the skulls of all the Shuthites,* Till Edom is dispossessed, and no fugitive is left in Seir. Israel shall do valiantly, and Jacob shall overcome his foes*.
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I will do that. Thank you. 🙂
 
George_C said:
I’m aware that the traditional number of visitors is three and that the Gospels don’t divulge how many actually visited Him.

Matthew calls the visitors from the east magi who followed a star to Bethlehem; Luke calls them shepherds, implies that they were already in the area, and says that an angel came to them with the news of Jesus’ birth.

The giving of gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh occur only in Matthew, while there is nothing of the sort in Luke.

Are these meant to be accounts of two different visits or the same account told from different points of view? :confused:
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We need to understand that:

1.) Luke recounts the shepherds who visited the newborn child; Matthew tells of magi who came some time later (despite popular depictions which show the magi and shepherds being together).

Luke:
While they were there, the time came for her to have her child, and she gave birth to her firstborn son. She wrapped him in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn. Now there were shepherds in that region living in the fields and keeping the night watch over their flock…
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When the angels went away from them to heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let us go, then, to Bethlehem to see this thing that has taken place, which the Lord has made known to us.” So they went in haste and found Mary and Joseph, and the infant lying in the manger.
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Matthew:
After their audience with the king they set out. And behold, the star that they had seen at its rising preceded them, until it came and stopped over the place where the child was. They were overjoyed at seeing the star, and on entering the house they saw the child with Mary his mother. They prostrated themselves and did him homage. Then they opened their treasures and offered him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh.
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So: Matthew and Luke are actually describing two separate events.
 
NotWorthy, I finally got around to reading Numbers.

I don’t know… :confused:

However, I see where Numbers 23:17 uses the term “Holocaust.”
 
George_C said:
NotWorthy, I finally got around to reading Numbers.

I don’t know… :confused:

However, I see where Numbers 23:17 uses the term “Holocaust.”
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Yes, it does use the term Holocaust. What’s wrong with that. **So he went back to Balak, who was still standing by his holocaust together with the princes of Moab. When Balak asked him, “What did the LORD say?”

The term holocaust was simply a sacrifice that was burned up. It certainly did not have the connotation that it has today.

But regarding Numbers 22-24. I offered up all three chapters because its one of the funniest scenes of the Old Testament. I can see Balaam ready to whack that donkey across the rear, not realizing that the donkey was actually saving Balaam from getting beheaded by the angel.

And then I can see Balak waiting for a terrifying curse on Israel to be issued from Balaam mouth, and the only thing that comes out are blessings!!!

But the three chapters help explain the context of the prophecy in Number 24 and how it may have been the influence of the Magi.

***I see him, though not now; ***(This means its a future event) ***I behold him, though not near: (many years into the future) A star shall advance from Jacob, and a staff shall rise from Israel (The star should begin to strike a chord. And remember, Jacob is the name for the country of Israel), That shall smite the brows of Moab, and the skulls of all the Shuthites, Till Edom is dispossessed, and no fugitive is left in Seir. Israel shall do valiantly,and Jacob shall overcome his foes. (This “star” shall lead Israel to overcome all her foes, including future ones like Rome).
Now, granted, scholars aren’t sure if the Magi are following the prophecy of Balaam, but Balaam did come from the East and was considered one of the most famous shaaman of his time.

But in any event, its a comical story. I laugh wehen I think of Balak wasting all that money on Balaam!
 
NotWorthy said:
Yes, it does use the term Holocaust. What’s wrong with that. The term holocaust was simply a sacrifice that was burned up. It certainly did not have the connotation that it has today.
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Yes, I understand that. I was just making an observation.
NotWorthy said:
Now, granted, scholars aren’t sure if the Magi are following the prophecy of Balaam, but Balaam did come from the East and was considered one of the most famous shaaman of his time.
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St. John Chrysostom of Constantinople believed they were either Persians or Parthians (from what is currently northeast Iran.) They could have also been Zoroastrian priests.
 
George_C said:
This makes sense. 🙂

I noticed you underlined the word newborn in quoting Luke. Why?
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In order to make a contrast between “child” (paidios, which could mean “baby” but is more commonly used to mean “young child”) and “infant” (brephos, meaning “a newborn baby”).
 
George_C said:
Yes, I understand that. I was just making an observation.
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Yes, but why the observation? I’m confused.
St. John Chrysostom of Constantinople believed they were either Persians or Parthians (from what is currently northeast Iran.) They could have also been Zoroastrian priests.
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Yes, the only thing we know about them is that we don’t know about them.
 
George_C said:
I hadn’t realized that the word “holocaust” was in the Old Testament.

That’s it.
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Ahhhhh, I see.

Yeah, it simply means burnt offering. Sort of makes you wonder if the person who coined the phrase “The Holocaust” to describe the Nazi’s attempted genocide of the Jews had a warped (or sick) sense of humor.
 
The magi visited Jesus when He was about two years old and living in Jerusalem. They were still in the East when He was born in Bethlehem.
 
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