Question about the divine office

[scottzacky]

Hi, what does the “ant.” mean in the St. Joseph’s Guide when it says something like

Sat. Immaculate Heart of Mary (1159)
MP (1372) (Ant) 845; DP 1022; EP 851 (615); NP 1034

I know it means “antiphon” but which antiphons is it telling me to use? Am I supposed to take the antiphons for the psalms from the commons but the psalms themselves from the psaltery? Or is it the invitatory antiphon or the benedictus and magnificat or what?

 

[Spirithound]

Sat. Immaculate Heart of Mary (1159)
MP (1372) (Ant) 845; DP 1022; EP 851 (615); NP 1034

I know it means “antiphon” but which antiphons is it telling me to use? Am I supposed to take the antiphons for the psalms from the commons but the psalms themselves from the psaltery? Or is it the invitatory antiphon or the benedictus and magnificat or what?

It is referring to the antiphons of the psalmody of Morning Prayer. It looks like Immaculate Heart of Mary is an Optional Memorial, and so it does not use the Psalms from Sunday I (like a Solemnity does), but just like the usual Saturday Memorial of the BVM, it takes the Psalms from the current Saturday.

So do what you find on page 1159, filling in what you find on page 1372, and further, using the Psalms and antiphons on page 845.

 

[JerrySeibert]

A great book to reference.
“Divine Office for DoDo’s”
I helped me with so much of the confusion.

 

[scottzacky]

I guess I was confused because the St. Joseph’s guide won’t consistently put (ant.), regardless of whether the memorial’s optional or not. For instance, the (Ant.) is missing for June 5th St. Boniface, July 6th St. Maria Gorgietti, but inserted for August 5th St. Mary Major. Is this arbitrary or does it mean something? The Office for Dodos is extremely helpful but doesn’t address this particular issue.

Thanks for your help!

 

[sungirl]

I think that when a page number is given for Ant and Pr, it refers to the antiphon for the Canticle of Zechariah or the Canticle of Mary. I use the 4-volume version, and for yesterday (memorial) I used the psalm antiphons (and readings and intercessions) from the Common of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the psalms from the psalter, and the canticle antiphon and prayer from the Common of Saints. I got all that from the guide.

I don’t think there’s a big difference in ease of use for the 1-volume vs 4-volume versions, but I do think that the guide for the 4-volume version is much easier to understand, especially for days like memorials with complex instructions. For one thing, it explicitly states which Common to use, which I find very helpful.

I hope this helps, and I’m always ready to be corrected if I’m doing it wrong!

 

[Spirithound]

I think that when a page number is given for Ant and Pr, it refers to the antiphon for the Canticle of Zechariah or the Canticle of Mary. I use the 4-volume version, and for yesterday (memorial) I used the psalm antiphons (and readings and intercessions) from the Common of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the psalms from the psalter, and the canticle antiphon and prayer from the Common of Saints. I got all that from the guide.

I don’t think there’s a big difference in ease of use for the 1-volume vs 4-volume versions, but I do think that the guide for the 4-volume version is much easier to understand, especially for days like memorials with complex instructions. For one thing, it explicitly states which Common to use, which I find very helpful.

I hope this helps, and I’m always ready to be corrected if I’m doing it wrong!

lol, I’ve been told there is…I use the 1-volume, as it appears Scott uses, since his page references matched up with my book (note, I don’t have St. Joseph’s guide…that might be a good investment though!), and I’ve been told when I switch to the 4-volume, I won’t have to do “the shuffle” (he had a more clever name for it, I’m sure…).

Anyways, the antiphon for the Canticle of Zechariah and the Canticle of Mary are Proper to the memorial of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, which is referenced by the initial page number (1159), but the number for Ant, (845), falls in the daily 4-week Psalter.

 

[Victorious]

Hi, what does the “ant.” mean in the St. Joseph’s Guide when it says something like

Sat. Immaculate Heart of Mary (1159)
MP (1372) (Ant) 845; DP 1022; EP 851 (615); NP 1034

I know it means “antiphon” but which antiphons is it telling me to use? Am I supposed to take the antiphons for the psalms from the commons but the psalms themselves from the psaltery? Or is it the invitatory antiphon or the benedictus and magnificat or what?

Looks like you’re using the 1-volume breviary, because that doesn’t match up with my four-volume guide. The following may be more than you ever wanted to know. Sometimes the St. Joseph’s guide has errors in it, so in case it does, let’s see if we can’t break this down:

1. Your usual starting point for feasts is the Proper of Saints. (There are exceptions, like the Solemnity of the Sacred Heart, where the entire office is found in the Proper of Seasons; if you don’t find your feast in the Proper of Saints, check the Proper of Seasons.)
2. The Proper of Seasons may or may not contain the entire office, depending on how big a feast it is. If it doesn’t have the entire office, the rubrics will refer you to the Commons, and they will tell you which Common to go to. This is where you’ll find your basic framework for the office.
3. The antiphons for the psalmody will be found either in the Proper of Seasons or in the Common. As far as which psalms to use for the psalmody, the possibilities are:
   a. Whatever is laid out in the Proper of Saints.
   b. No psalms in the Proper of Saints: if you’re saying Lauds, then you can either use the psalms from Sunday, Week I in the Four-Week Psalter (which is what the rubrics will say in the Common), or you can use the psalms that you would otherwise use if it was an ordinary day. For Vespers, you can use the psalms in the Common or the regular psalms for the day.
4. The antiphons referred to in your example above will be the antiphons for the Gospel Canticles (the Benedictus for Lauds, and the Magnificat for Vespers). This will be found (a) in the Proper of Saints; or if there are no proper antiphons, then (b) in the Common; or (c) in the Proper of Seasons.
5. The closing prayer for Lauds and Vespers is frequently the same on feast days. (Though not always.)
6. Be thankful that the Divine Office has been “simplified” since Vatican II.:ballspin:

 

[sungirl]

lol, I’ve been told there is…I use the 1-volume, as it appears Scott uses, since his page references matched up with my book (note, I don’t have St. Joseph’s guide…that might be a good investment though!), and I’ve been told when I switch to the 4-volume, I won’t have to do “the shuffle” (he had a more clever name for it, I’m sure…).

I mostly use the 4-volume version but I started with the 1-volume version and still use it. I find that the page-flipping is almost exactly the same. Other things are easier/better (especially, of course, the Office of Readings), but the shuffle is the same.

 

[OraLabora]

Looks like you’re using the 1-volume breviary, because that doesn’t match up with my four-volume guide. The following may be more than you ever wanted to know. Sometimes the St. Joseph’s guide has errors in it, so in case it does, let’s see if we can’t break this down:

1. Your usual starting point for feasts is the Proper of Saints. (There are exceptions, like the Solemnity of the Sacred Heart, where the entire office is found in the Proper of Seasons; if you don’t find your feast in the Proper of Saints, check the Proper of Seasons.)
2. The Proper of Seasons may or may not contain the entire office, depending on how big a feast it is. If it doesn’t have the entire office, the rubrics will refer you to the Commons, and they will tell you which Common to go to. This is where you’ll find your basic framework for the office.
3. The antiphons for the psalmody will be found either in the Proper of Seasons or in the Common. As far as which psalms to use for the psalmody, the possibilities are:
   a. Whatever is laid out in the Proper of Saints.
   b. No psalms in the Proper of Saints: if you’re saying Lauds, then you can either use the psalms from Sunday, Week I in the Four-Week Psalter (which is what the rubrics will say in the Common), or you can use the psalms that you would otherwise use if it was an ordinary day. For Vespers, you can use the psalms in the Common or the regular psalms for the day.
4. The antiphons referred to in your example above will be the antiphons for the Gospel Canticles (the Benedictus for Lauds, and the Magnificat for Vespers). This will be found (a) in the Proper of Saints; or if there are no proper antiphons, then (b) in the Common; or (c) in the Proper of Seasons.
5. The closing prayer for Lauds and Vespers is frequently the same on feast days. (Though not always.)
6. Be thankful that the Divine Office has been “simplified” since Vatican II.:ballspin:

The Immaculate Heart of Mary is not a feast, it’s a memorial. For memorials, unless otherwise specified in the Propers, the order is as follows:

Hymn can be from the weekday or the Commons
Psalmody and antiphons are of the weekday
Short reading can be either of the weekday, or from the Commons
Benedictus antiphon can be from the weekday or the Commons.
The collect is always proper to the saint/memorial

What you specified above is for feasts and solemnities.

 

[scottzacky]

This is very helpful! So you would never use psalm antiphons from the Commons with psalms from the psaltery?

 

[Spirithound]

This is very helpful! So you would never use psalm antiphons from the Commons with psalms from the psaltery?

Not for a memorial. However, Morning Prayer in the various Commons gives antiphons and directs you to pray the Psalmody from Sunday I. This is certainly for Solemnities, and perhaps Feasts, if someone could confirm or correct me on that.

 

[sungirl]

Morning Prayer in the various Commons gives antiphons and directs you to pray the Psalmody from Sunday I. This is certainly for Solemnities, and perhaps Feasts, if someone could confirm or correct me on that.

I know this one! Yes, the Week I psalms are used for both Feasts and Solemnities.

 

[OraLabora]

I know this one! Yes, the Week I psalms are used for both Feasts and Solemnities.

And for the occasional memorial with proper antiphons. But those will be indicated as such in the proper of the memorial.