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UniversalistGuy
Guest
Is the Nicene Creed recited during Eastern Catholic Masses/Liturgies? Thanks for your help.
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josephdaniel29
Guest
Yes it is, sans the Filioque.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Mostly chanted. Although at times we would recite it so that everyone can join in.
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UniversalistGuy
Guest
Thank you for your help. Would there ever be a question in the minds of Eastern Catholics that the Nicene Creed ought not to be recited or chanted during their worship?
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Nine_Two
Guest
Its quite central to the service, it’s done prior to communion, an affirmation that one is in line with the teachings of the church.
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UniversalistGuy
Guest
Thank you very much.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
As Nine_Two said. Also while the Creed is being chanted/recited, the Holy Spirit descends upon the bread and wine prior to the Consecration. If we take out the Creed, then we take out more than just professing the Catholic faith.
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UniversalistGuy
Guest
Thank you.
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Vico
Guest
I have never heard such a thing before as “the Holy Spirit descends upon the bread and wine prior to the Consecration” rather I have heard that the Holy Spirit changes the bread and wine to the body and blood during the anaphora, which follows the Symbol of Faith.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Isn’t that why they wave the piece of cloth (forgot what its called) during the Creed? I believe the priest is praying something else and this may not be actually connected to the Creed, it just happens when the people are praying the Creed.
Like what they do here → youtube.com/watch?v=rjB3_iBs8no at the 2:05 mark
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Vico
Guest
The Antiochian Orthodox article I read states that “During the Divine Liturgy the Aer is waved over the diskos and chalice during the recitation of the Creed to symbolize the Holy Spirit making efficacious all the spiritual actions of the ecclesia, the assembly”.
What I have learned from various other sources is this; that this practice is from ancient Liturgies to prevent any insect from falling into the unveiled Chalice. (Also at some times a fan may be used is used in the Liturgy by the deacon.) But also, that the aer symbolizes the stone that covered the opening of Our Lord’s tomb when the Holy Gifts are covered with it after the Great Entrance. Then when the priest waves the aer during the symbol of faith, it symbolizes the the earthquake that occurred when Our Lord rose from the dead. The priest stops waving the aer at the point in the creed after he says, “And in the Holy Spirit.” However, waving is also symbolic as a victory flag: The True Faith has triumphed over all heresies.
From the Liturgy (Byzantine Catholic):
When the kiss of peace has been exchanged, the deacon intones:
DEACON: [The doors! The doors!] In wisdom let us be attentive!
The celebrant takes the top two corners of the aer with three fingers of each hand, lifts it above the holy gifts, waves it gently, and says the Creed with the faithful. At the words “and in the Holy Spirit” he lowers it, folds it, and places it to the right side of the holy table.
If there is a concelebrant, the celebrant and concelebrant each hold one corner of the aer as they wave it gently over the holy gifts. If there are several concelebrants, the two main concelebrants hold the top corners of the aer over the holy gifts, while the celebrant holds the two bottom corners as they hold the aer horizontally over the gifts.
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kitkatty
Guest
That has always been my understanding.
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BVM_1221
Guest
Yes, with one minor change. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father
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ConstantineTG
Guest
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stephraim
Guest
Yes, I believe the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed is sung at Divine Liturgies in its original form (without the ‘Deum de Deo’ and ‘Filioque’).
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Vico
Guest
The Byzantine Catholic version 2006 (English) has “God from God” but not “and the Son”.
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stephraim
Guest
Interesting. I didn’t know that.
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Gregory_I
Guest
Is the Original appendix to the Original creed of NIcea “But for those who say…” still in force? Should it IDEALLY be the Original Nicene appendix, then followed by the COnstantinopolitan appendix “and in the Holy Spirit…”
Whatever happened to the original Appendix of Nicea?
Whatever happened to the original Appendix of Nicea?
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Vico
Guest
“And in the Holy Spirit” … “But for those who say…” was in the Nicean Creed 325.
“And in the Holy Spirit …” is in the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed of 381, but the appendix was removed.
Also “God from God” was in the Nicean Creed of 325 but was removed in the Niceno-Constantinopolitan 381 revision, but was added back to the Catholic version of Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed (via the Latin version).
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UniversalistGuy
Guest
Thank you. Could either of you please explain how that works? I don’t even get where the Eastern Catholics come from but I thought that all Catholics were under the pope and that Catholic doctrine had to be accepted by ALL Catholics. If it’s quite central to the service and an affirmation that one is in line with the teachings of the church how is it that Eastern Catholics have this different belief from western Catholics about God and are allowed to actually announce it when they say their creed? Do they get special permission from the pope or something?
No Orthodox Christians have the “and the Son” filioque in their Nicene Creeds, right? Or do some have it? This is very confusing.
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