Question about the Old Covenant and the New Covenant

[pegasusu]

I was wondering, I’ve heard that the Old Covenant was fulfilled by Christ and when he created the New Covenant, it voided the Old Covenant (Excluding the 10 commandments and some minor points). If so, from our perspective, Wouldn’t it make the Jewish People’s (who still awaits a messiah) rituals in Judaism useless since its Core Law is the Mosaic Law?

Or Is the Old Covenant still valid to the Jewish People along side (if they wanted to) The New Covenant? aka Dual-Covenant Theology.
I’m curious because I don’t think personally that God would allow the Mosaic Law and the Abrahamic Covenant to be rendered void to the people he chose and spoke first.

 

[Wesrock]

The old covenant being fulfilled is like saying it’s been brought to fruition. The new covenant is what the old covenant prepared humanity for through Israel. The new covenant was the goal of the old. It’s the interiorization of the Law and made possible by grace.

I wouldn’t say the Old is “void,” exactly. Incomplete (without the New) , maybe. It’s still a covenant the Jews participate in.

 

[BartholomewB]

I’m curious because I don’t think personally that God would allow the Mosaic Law and the Abrahamic Covenant to be rendered void to the people he chose and spoke first.

St. Paul doesn’t think so, either. He is in full agreement with you about that. “The gifts and the call of God are irrevocable,” he says in Romans 11:32. The whole of Chapter 11, in fact, is an analysis of this question:

Romans, CHAPTER 11 | USCCB

 

[fhansen]

The Church has a good teaching on this, as usual.

121 The Old Testament is an indispensable part of Sacred Scripture. Its books are divinely inspired and retain a permanent value, for the Old Covenant has never been revoked.

1962 The Old Law is the first stage of revealed Law. Its moral prescriptions are summed up in the Ten Commandments. The precepts of the Decalogue lay the foundations for the vocation of man fashioned in the image of God; they prohibit what is contrary to the love of God and neighbor and prescribe what is essential to it. The Decalogue is a light offered to the conscience of every man to make God’s call and ways known to him and to protect him against evil:

God wrote on the tables of the Law what men did not read in their hearts.13

1963 According to Christian tradition, the Law is holy, spiritual, and good,14 yet still imperfect. Like a tutor15 it shows what must be done, but does not of itself give the strength, the grace of the Spirit, to fulfill it. Because of sin, which it cannot remove, it remains a law of bondage. According to St. Paul, its special function is to denounce and disclose sin , which constitutes a “law of concupiscence” in the human heart.16 However, the Law remains the first stage on the way to the kingdom. It prepares and disposes the chosen people and each Christian for conversion and faith in the Savior God. It provides a teaching which endures for ever, like the Word of God.

1964 The Old Law is a preparation for the Gospel . "The Law is a pedagogy and a prophecy of things to come."17 It prophesies and presages the work of liberation from sin which will be fulfilled in Christ: it provides the New Testament with images, “types,” and symbols for expressing the life according to the Spirit. Finally, the Law is completed by the teaching of the sapiential books and the prophets which set its course toward the New Covenant and the Kingdom of heaven.

There were . . . under the regimen of the Old Covenant, people who possessed the charity and grace of the Holy Spirit and longed above all for the spiritual and eternal promises by which they were associated with the New Law. Conversely, there exist carnal men under the New Covenant still distanced from the perfection of the New Law: the fear of punishment and certain temporal promises have been necessary, even under the New Covenant, to incite them to virtuous works. In any case, even though the Old Law prescribed charity, it did not give the Holy Spirit, through whom "God’s charity has been poured into our hearts."18

While the Old Covenant was made obsolete by a new and better one (Heb 8:13), it wasn’t revoked because the obligation to be righteous, the need to fulfill the law, doesn’t go away. Rather the New Covenant now provides us with the right means to obedience, something that humankind apparently wasn’t ready for yet while God worked with and prepared us, through His chosen people, up to that point when Christ would come to give us the fullest revelation of God’s nature and will for man, with the grace to finally satisfy that will.

 

[De_Maria]

I was wondering, I’ve heard that the Old Covenant was fulfilled by Christ

Correct.

and when he created the New Covenant, it voided the Old Covenant (Excluding the 10 commandments and some minor points).

Correct. The 10 Commandments were written into stone by the finger of God. They are still in force.

If so, from our perspective, Wouldn’t it make the Jewish People’s (who still awaits a messiah) rituals in Judaism useless

Yes. Judaism does not really exist, anymore. The Temple is gone. The Temple was the center of the Judaic religion.

since its Core Law is the Mosaic Law?

The Ten Commandments were the core of the Mosaic Law and are the only aspect of the Mosaic Law which remains in force.

Or Is the Old Covenant still valid to the Jewish People along side (if they wanted to) The New Covenant?

The Old Covenant remains valid for all people. Including you and I, if we reject the Sacraments.

All people of the world are subject to the Ten Commandments. Sin is the transgression of these Commandments.

aka Dual-Covenant Theology.

In my opinion, all 7 Covenants that God has made with man, remain in force.

1. Adamic - Populate the world and conquer it.
2. Noahic - The world shall not be flooded again.
3. Abrahamic - Faith Covenant
4. Davidic - Your Son will always rule
5. Mosaic - Ten Commandments
6. Christian - The Sacraments.
7. Future glory - We know how it will end.

I’m curious because I don’t think personally that God would allow the Mosaic Law and the Abrahamic Covenant to be rendered void to the people he chose and spoke first.

The Covenant we’re living right now, is the Christian Covenant. But it incorporates all the others within it.

However, anyone who rejects the Christian Covenant, which is also called the Covenant of grace, falls under the Covenant of works. In other words, the Sacraments are the difference. The difference is succinctly expressed in Hebrews 12:17-24.

 

[Justin_Mary]

I’m curious because I don’t think personally that God would allow the Mosaic Law and the Abrahamic Covenant to be rendered void to the people he chose and spoke first.

Like others have said, void is not the right word.

There was a purpose for the old Covenant… all the covenants. That purpose has been fulfilled in Christ. The Messiah.

Keep in mind, the first disciples were all Jews. Many of the first Christians were Jews.

Many (maybe all) of their rituals have been perfected in the Sacrements.

There is no more Jew or Gentile. Only children of God.

 

[PrisonerOfChrist]

I was wondering, I’ve heard that the Old Covenant was fulfilled by Christ and when he created the New Covenant, it voided the Old Covenant (Excluding the 10 commandments and some minor points). If so, from our perspective, Wouldn’t it make the Jewish People’s (who still awaits a messiah) rituals in Judaism useless since its Core Law is the Mosaic Law?

Or Is the Old Covenant still valid to the Jewish People along side (if they wanted to) The New Covenant? aka Dual-Covenant Theology.
I’m curious because I don’t think personally that God would allow the Mosaic Law and the Abrahamic Covenant to be rendered void to the people he chose and spoke first.

The new covenant fulfils the old covenant rather than voids it. The Jews are still the chosen people but their journey is incomplete. They are called to be part of the body of Christ. They are called first before the gentiles.

 

[TMC]

By “real popular” you mean “what the Church says,” right? The Church teaches that the Old Covenant remains in place. The Church does not teach that Judaism ended with the destruction of the Temple or that today’s Jews follow a different religion than that followed by biblical Jews. Those ideas, known as “supersessionism” have been rejected by the Church.

This document, while not doctrinal, provides a good history and summary of the Church’s teaching on Judaism:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...i_doc_20151210_ebraismo-nostra-aetate_en.html

 

[TMC]

I agree that there remains some disagreement in the Church. I don’t know if the Church’s current teaching on Judaism is dogmatic or not, but it is what the Church teaches.

Its interesting that you never heard of the teaching on the Old Covenant before coming to CAF. It was first made explicit by Pope John Paul II, I believe, although it is strongly hinted at in Nostre Aetate. For my part, I never heard it said that the Jews of today were not “real” Jews until I came here to CAF. Since then, I have done some research on that position. I find it troubling because it is one of those claims that some (not all, by any means) have used to justify anti-Semitic positions. I don’t think it is true that Judaism today is a “made up” religion or not “real” or that Jews today are not members of the same religion as Jews in biblical times. But for those that believe differently, I would just say that IMHO, some caution is appropriate because that thought has been used inappropriately by some people.

 

[TMC]

Catholicism is also different today than it was 1,000 years ago, let along 2,000 years ago. Baptists are very different from Catholics, but they are still Christians. I am happy to let Jews define Judaism, just as I hope they are happy to let Christians define Christianity.

I disagree with this, although I understand why many feel this way. The link I provided earlier explains why Christ is necessary but the Old Covenant still remains. Not everyone finds it convincing, I know.

 

[TMC]

Wow. I probably talk to more Jews than that every day. Some are religious, some are not, some are merely “cultural” Jews. But I find that is also true of Catholics that I know.

 

[Elf01]

Out of interest why not Orthodox?

 

[Justin_Mary]

Interesting. Puts a different perspective on the transfiguration for me. Something I will meditate on. Thank you.

There may be fault in my understanding. But the Jewish idea of salvation is different from the Christian idea of salvation isn’t it?

Reading the old testament the Jewish idea of salvation ends in this world. God saves them from death, starvation, drought, slavery. God heard my cry & rescued me.

The Hevrews were called to live a moral life. Which is short of holy.

Christians are called to be holy, to not be overly concerned with this world. To store up treasure in heaven. Salvation isn’t limited to this world but continues into the next.