Question about the sign of peace during mass.

[JimG]

Oh sorry :blushing: I was trying to be proper, ya know with a stranger and all. But you did say you never pass up the opportunity to receive or give a hug, so here ya go :hug3:, I hope this is an appropriate peace hug, it’s the only one I could find.

Thanks, I appreciate that!

Looking back over the thread, it seems that Fr. David has provided the correct answer, and it was better and more concise than mine.

The problem always arises as to whether or not a hug and a kiss constitutes exchanging the peace “in a sober manner.”

If I had my druthers, a simple “peace be with you,” and a hand squeeze or handshake would satisfy the liturgical function of the moment.

But I would hesitate to press the issue because so many feel quite strongly that spouses and children deserve hugs and kisses even at Mass. And it is not a big important matter of doctrine, so there is room for flexibility.

Besides, discussions of such minor liturgical matters can sometimes become more heated than if one were to propose a change in the filioque clause of the Creed.

 

[Isabella1]

Isabella,
This is what the Church has to say on the matter in Redemptionis Sacramentum. I believe it directly answers your question. The emphasis is my own.

[71.] The practice of the Roman Rite is to be maintained according to which the peace is extended shortly before Holy Communion. For according to the tradition of the Roman Rite, this practice does not have the connotation either of reconciliation or of a remission of sins, but instead signifies peace, communion and charity before the reception of the Most Holy Eucharist. It is rather the Penitential Act to be carried out at the beginning of Mass (especially in its first form) which has the character of reconciliation among brothers and sisters.

[72.] It is appropriate “that each one give the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner”. “The Priest may give the sign of peace to the ministers but always remains within the sanctuary, so as not to disturb the celebration. He does likewise if for a just reason he wishes to extend the sign of peace to some few of the faithful”. “As regards the sign to be exchanged, the manner is to be established by the Conference of Bishops in accordance with the dispositions and customs of the people”, and their acts are subject to the recognitio of the Apostolic See

The questions to ask would be
Is hugging and kissing people at this time a sign of “peace, communion and charity?” especially if one treats friends and family one way and strangers another.

Is this truly a “sober manner”?

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut and help. I never thought of it in the light you presented here. I never thought of the fact that anyone would be offended by me hugging and giving a peck on the cheek to my daughter, and then giving a handshake to a stranger. It never appeared as if anyone has been uncomfortable with this around me in all these years. And to me, I would have to say yes, I do this in a sober manner. What I mean is, it is very pure of heart, and I don’t make a big deal of it or make a spectacle of myself.

So now my question would be, if this is not acceptable in the Church, then why is hugging ones family not stopped?

TobyLue expressed: “I have checked with some liturgy experts and they say that giving a hug and a peck to the cheek one’s spouse if perfectly OK.” Do you see my confusion? And he had a really good post with some good points in it.

Soooo… I thought I had my mind settled on the issue according to what the Church was teaching, but now I see that it looks like there is a gray area. Is this correct? Or is is clear cut and I am just not seeing it?

I am obviously confused about it still, or again. UGH! I just know that if I stop giving my daughter a hug and peck on the cheek, she will not understand this (she was born with Down’s). Heck, I don’t think my parents or siblings and their spouses would understand this either. They would be highly offended if I stuck out my hand to them, instead of give them a hug. I don’t think it is a good thing to offend people in mass is it?

Anything you could suggest or offer to help me better understand is appreciated. Thanks

And by the way TobyLue, I agree with no shaking hands with someone when they are coughing and sneezing. Yuck! I would of sanitized too. You had a good post, and it was helpful also. Thanks.

 

[FrDavid96]

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut and help. I never thought of it in the light you presented here. I never thought of the fact that anyone would be offended by me hugging and giving a peck on the cheek to my daughter, and then giving a handshake to a stranger. It never appeared as if anyone has been uncomfortable with this around me in all these years. And to me, I would have to say yes, I do this in a sober manner. What I mean is, it is very pure of heart, and I don’t make a big deal of it or make a spectacle of myself.

So now my question would be, if this is not acceptable in the Church, then why is hugging ones family not stopped?

TobyLue expressed: “I have checked with some liturgy experts and they say that giving a hug and a peck to the cheek one’s spouse if perfectly OK.” Do you see my confusion? And he had a really good post with some good points in it.

Soooo… I thought I had my mind settled on the issue according to what the Church was teaching, but now I see that it looks like there is a gray area. Is this correct? Or is is clear cut and I am just not seeing it?

I am obviously confused about it still, or again. UGH! I just know that if I stop giving my daughter a hug and peck on the cheek, she will not understand this (she was born with Down’s). Heck, I don’t think my parents or siblings and their spouses would understand this either. They would be highly offended if I stuck out my hand to them, instead of give them a hug. I don’t think it is a good thing to offend people in mass is it?

Anything you could suggest or offer to help me better understand is appreciated. Thanks

And by the way TobyLue, I agree with no shaking hands with someone when they are coughing and sneezing. Yuck! I would of sanitized too. You had a good post, and it was helpful also. Thanks.

Well, remember that I merely quoted what the Church has to say on the matter in the Liturgical laws (not liturgical “suggestions”).

When we ask ourselves “what should we do?” we realy need to look at what this gesture truly means. All too often people say that it means “greeting people” or “recognizing them” or “expressing my love for my family” but none of these emotions (valuable though they might be, and usually are) express the true meaning and purpose of the Rite–the meaning and purpose defined by the Church. The exchange of peace is a symbolic gesture of peace, communion, and charity and it to be done “in a sober manner.”

As for the “liturgy experts” frankly, if we look hard enough we can find an “expert” who will say almost anything (not that the person who posted the comment had that motivation, mind you). I think it was some NYC district attorney who famously said “I can indict a ham sandwich”? Well, likewise, some “liturgy experts” will say just about anything if given half a chance.

All we need to do is to look at the documents of the Church, read them, and apply them. If a “liturgy expert” says one thing, but the written documents of the Church say otherwise, who should we believe?

I do hope that I’m not taking us “off topic” with that, but I feel that the point needs to be made. When we want to know what is “right” to do at the Mass, we must look at what the Church tells us is to be done–nothing and no-one else. The questions being asked here are legitimate ones, yet if we want to know the answers, please remember that the Church has already provided the answers (and sometimes people here can guide someone to those answers by providing the teaching and liturgical laws of the Church.)

 

[Thomas63116]

Isabella,
This is what the Church has to say on the matter in Redemptionis Sacramentum. I believe it directly answers your question. The emphasis is my own.

[71.] The practice of the Roman Rite is to be maintained according to which the peace is extended shortly before Holy Communion. For according to the tradition of the Roman Rite, this practice does not have the connotation either of reconciliation or of a remission of sins, but instead signifies peace, communion and charity before the reception of the Most Holy Eucharist. It is rather the Penitential Act to be carried out at the beginning of Mass (especially in its first form) which has the character of reconciliation among brothers and sisters.

[72.] It is appropriate “that each one give the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner”. “The Priest may give the sign of peace to the ministers but always remains within the sanctuary, so as not to disturb the celebration. He does likewise if for a just reason he wishes to extend the sign of peace to some few of the faithful”. “As regards the sign to be exchanged, the manner is to be established by the Conference of Bishops in accordance with the dispositions and customs of the people”, and their acts are subject to the recognitio of the Apostolic See

Thank you for providing the relevant Church document on this subject. Has the USCCB issued any further guidelines for the US?

Isn’t it possible that the way we soberly express “peace, communion, and charity” with a close friend or family member is somewhat different than the way we express it with a stranger or acquiantace?

Personally, I have seen people exhange hugs with family or close friends in a manner that is sober, and which I believe reflects the appropriate liturgical meanng. Other times I have seen people greet each other with a hand shake but in manner more appropriate for a social function, rather than the liturgy. So I think it is more about a proper decorum which flows from an appropriate understanding than any one particular expression.

 

[napoli426]

The sign of peace is not a part of the liturgy. The sooner it is removed the better. I find this practice to be both distracting and in some cases very disturbing, especially when the priest comes down from the altar to have a “love in” with the laity. Or, when people are having some sort of competition to see how many people they can make the sign of peace with, very annoying.

 

[japhy]

The sign of peace is not a part of the liturgy. The sooner it is removed the better.

It is an optional element of the liturgy, but it is part of the liturgy.

 

[Isabella1]

Thank you for providing the relevant Church document on this subject. Has the USCCB issued any further guidelines for the US?

Isn’t it possible that the way we soberly express “peace, communion, and charity” with a close friend or family member is somewhat different than the way we express it with a stranger or acquiantace?

Personally, I have seen people exhange hugs with family or close friends in a manner that is sober, and which I believe reflects the appropriate liturgical meanng. Other times I have seen people greet each other with a hand shake but in manner more appropriate for a social function, rather than the liturgy. So I think it is more about a proper decorum which flows from an appropriate understanding than any one particular expression.

I couldn’t agree with you more! If I hug a friend or family member for the sign of peace, it is always in a sober manner. Sometimes when I exchange a hand shake with others around me, I don’t even get looked in the eyes, so to me that is not giving a symbolic gesture of peace, communion, and charity. It is even less than a social hello.

As for me, I have decided to keep giving the sign of peace hug, to my family, and friends (who want them and will accept them from me), because I am saying to them from my heart in a sober manner, that which is required. Just like I would in a genuine handshake of someone I don’t know.