Question about vespers/presanctified liturgy

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Just learning Byzantine liturgy, and last night attended vespers and presanctified liturgy.
I thought it was one of the most beautiful services I have ever been to.

My question is that during prayers when you could have made a prostration on the floor (I saw one man do this), some people looked like they were maybe reaching down to touch the floor then blessing themselves? The prayers were being said fairly quickly, and I was trying to keep my place in the book while I watched them. Is that what you do, touch the floor? Thanks for any answers.
 
-]/-]
Just learning Byzantine liturgy, and last night attended vespers and presanctified liturgy.
I thought it was one of the most beautiful services I have ever been to.

My question is that during prayers when you could have made a prostration on the floor (I saw one man do this), some people looked like they were maybe reaching down to touch the floor then blessing themselves? The prayers were being said fairly quickly, and I was trying to keep my place in the book while I watched them. Is that what you do, touch the floor? Thanks for any answers.
You can either bow and touch the floor before blessing yourself or make a full prostration.

If I may suggest…do not try to follow along in a book. The Byzantine services are so rich and engage all of our senses, you really miss out on a lot if you have your nose buried in a book. Stand and experience the service…pray along with the repetative responces…and allow the service to flow over you.-]/-]
 
Just learning Byzantine liturgy, and last night attended vespers and presanctified liturgy.
I thought it was one of the most beautiful services I have ever been to.

My question is that during prayers when you could have made a prostration on the floor (I saw one man do this), some people looked like they were maybe reaching down to touch the floor then blessing themselves? The prayers were being said fairly quickly, and I was trying to keep my place in the book while I watched them. Is that what you do, touch the floor? Thanks for any answers.
They are doing a half prostration (essentially a bow), which has the advantage of being faster than a full prostration.
 
-]/-]

You can either bow and touch the floor before blessing yourself or make a full prostration.

If I may suggest…do not try to follow along in a book. The Byzantine services are so rich and engage all of our senses, you really miss out on a lot if you have your nose buried in a book. Stand and experience the service…pray along with the repetative responces…and allow the service to flow over you.-]/-]
Great advice on both counts! 👍👍👍

There are a few moveable parts of the Liturgy of the Presantified Gifts, so its easy to let that be a distraction or frustration. I serve as Cantor (leading the responses) in most of the services in my parish, and I thus have to rather consciously attempt to focus of the experience as opposed to the book / text / music, but it is possible to do so. Just let the Holy Spirit dwell within you!
 
Just learning Byzantine liturgy, and last night attended vespers and presanctified liturgy.

My question is that during prayers when you could have made a prostration on the floor (I saw one man do this), some people looked like they were maybe reaching down to touch the floor then blessing themselves? …
I would add more context to the answer to your question. Variations will be found in all things in the East. That being said we do not kneel in the East, we rather prostrate and we do not prostrate on Sundays at all. I have not read this not heard it but I suspect the reverence (signing oneself with the Cross and a bow or bow reaching for/touching the floor) is a kind of modification of that prostration since the prostrations are not permitted on Sundays, or a pious posture for those who are physically unable to prostrate outside of Sundays. Prostrations are a part of weekday services and most certainly involved in services during Great Lent, other than Sundays, every Sunday being a little Pascha.

As for the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts, I’m really surprised only one person prostrated, unless everyone else was physically unable to do so. The clergy I assume got down on the floor and prostrated. I usually worship in a Russian Church, my own Russian ECC or a Russian Orthodox Church (ROCOR and OCA) and Lent is filled with prostrations. The Prayer of Saint Ephrem features prominently in our services of Great Lent, prayed each time divided into three parts, with a prostration after each part. At the Greek Orthodox Cathedral where I am for some of these services those few of us in attendance tend to stand in the aisles not the pews so we can easily prostrate. The Russian temples have no pews. During the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts when the Presanctified Gifts are brought out through the deacons’ door and processed through the temple, as during the Great Entrance, all prostrate, and unlike DL, are silent.

During the non liturgical services of Great Canon & Compline this week for those who have begun Great Lent, those of us old calendar will have this next week, we also have the Prayer of Saint Ephrem with its prostrations.

The Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts is traditionally an evening service, although many places will have one weekly Presanctified Liturgy as a morning service and one as an evening service, I assume as an oikonomia ). An excellent book on Vespers and Presanctified Liturgy is Evening worship in the Orthodox Church by Nicholas Uspensky. Most of this is available on googlebooks. The section on Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts begins on page 111 there. That may be more than what you are interested in but I include it because I’ve found it a helpful book as regards evening services, even though I fail to remember most of what I’ve read :sad_yes: , and I wish someone had recommended it to me sooner. 🙂

P.S. Great Compline services are very rich. If you able to get there one or more nights this week I encourage you to go.
 
The Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts is traditionally an evening service, although many places will have one weekly Presanctified Liturgy as a morning service and one as an evening service, I assume as an oikonomia ).
The Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts is, in fact, a form of Vespers, properly taken in the evening. Indeed to have it at other times would likely be an oikonomia. Our parish is served by a priest who is responsible for two parishes, so it is impossible for him to have evening services in both places. He will typically do Presanctified on Wednesdays at one parish and on Fridays at the other to avoid this conflict.

In an article written by Fr. Elias L. Rafaj, he explains that there are a number of “specific actions” that take place during the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts:
  • Lenten Vespers
  • Readings for the Old Testament Books of Genesis and Proverbs, reminding us of the static relationship between God and humankind
  • Blessing with a lit candle, a reminder of the Catechumens who are preparing for their initiation before Pascha
  • The offering of incense in preparation of the procession of the Eucharistic Gifts
  • The procession of the Presanctified Gifts
  • Chanting of the Lord’s Prayer and reception of the Holy Eucharist
This service is one of the most profound expressions of Lenten worship in the Eastern Churches. I’d recommend all Catholics to attend at least once if there is an Eastern Catholic (or Orthodox) church nearby. Of course, respectful witness at an Orthodox service would preclude us from receiving the Holy Eucharist at this time, but we pray for the day we are fully reconcilied as One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
 
Just learning Byzantine liturgy, and last night attended vespers and presanctified liturgy.
I thought it was one of the most beautiful services I have ever been to.

My question is that during prayers when you could have made a prostration on the floor (I saw one man do this), some people looked like they were maybe reaching down to touch the floor then blessing themselves? The prayers were being said fairly quickly, and I was trying to keep my place in the book while I watched them. Is that what you do, touch the floor? Thanks for any answers.
stuffcatholicslike.com/2008/06/29/xxiv-stuff-byzantine-catholics-like-liturgical-gymnastics/
 
Vico, that helped a lot.
Thanks everyone.
Glory to Jesus Christ!
 
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