Question about voting issue

[LeafByNiggle]

The OP is probably thinking of this from the Catechism:

CCC 2240 Submission to authority and co-responsibility for the common good make it morally obligatory to pay taxes, to exercise the right to vote, and to defend one’s country:

I sort of agree. I would also compare this to the moral obligation to support the Church or give to the poor or to pray. The Catechism does not say how much we must give or how often we must pray. But someone who never gives anything to either the Church or to charity and never prays at all would be in violation of these admonitions.

Similarly, someone who never votes at all would be in violation of CCC 2240. But someone who votes sometimes and not at others might be OK. I think it comes down to having an informed conscience and then listening to that conscience, rather than declaring it a sin not to vote in every signal election that comes your way.

 

[Aquinas11]

Not voting is not taking a stance. In the first level of Hell in Dante’s Comedy, he encounters’ the Opportunists, “they stood for neither good, nor for evil, but only for themselves. They stood for nothing and thus have nowhere to rest. Hornets and wasps (symbolizing their guilty conscience) chase them and bite them, causing their blood to seep down into the soil where it is consumed by worms”. They also chase a banner with ever-changing text which disappears and then is replaced by new text as they continue to chase the banner, symbolizing that they are willing to change their opinions based on changing social trends, etc, provided it fulfills their own interests (e.g. be anti-gay marriage in 2000, but pro-gay marriage in 2019, etc).

 

[TheLittleLady]

Dante is not a theologian, he wrote fiction.

 

[PatK63]

If you have no third choice.

 

[Aquinas11]

Dante is not a theologian

Yeah he’s more than a theologian.

POPE FRANCIS: "a prophet of hope, herald of the possibility of redemption, liberation and the profound transformation of every man and woman, of all humanity.”

fiction

POPE FRANCIS: an invitation ““to rediscover the lost or obscured meaning of our human path and to hope to see again the glowing horizon on which the dignity of the human person shines in its fullness,””

 

[Lemuel]

This is not to argue, but when don’t you have a third choice? I don’t know how it works in other countries, only how it works in the USA. Here, we have all the choices we want. In Australia, for instance, I believe that voting is a requirement. You vote or you get fined. Can you write in a candidate or vote for someone other than the two viable candidates?

I just don’t know where a third (or more) choice is not an option.

 

[Lemuel]

Not voting is not taking a stance.

Sure it is. It’s saying that you don’t agree with any of the candidates. It says you don’t consent to being ruled by a wicked government. It says you don’t agree with the outcome of the election. In fact, only those who refuse to vote have just cause to complain. If you vote, you are agreeing to the rules of the game and are morally obligated to accept the outcome by your participation.

If you vote, don’t complain.

 

[Aquinas11]

It says you don’t consent to being ruled by a wicked government.

Sure you do - assuming you’re not in North Korea where you can’t voluntarily leave, but they can’t vote anyway. By choosing to stay in a country, you are consenting to be ruled by the “wicked” government.

Sure it is. It’s saying that you don’t agree with any of the candidates.

Well I mean its not taking a stance on good v. evil. It is taking a stance (as Dante says) for onself, to promote onself. You even are doing it in your post. Saying that you are in a unique class above everyone who votes:

only those who refuse to vote have just cause to complain

 

[MikeInVA]

If you vote, you are agreeing to the rules of the game and are morally obligated to accept the outcome by your participation.

If you vote, don’t complain.

Even if you don’t vote you are still morally obligated to accept their outcome. You just chose not to have a say in that outcome.

 

[PatK63]

I was speaking in general not just voting.

 

[Lemuel]

By choosing to stay in a country, you are consenting to be ruled by the “wicked” government.

Not really. Just as an example, of which there are many. There are many thousands of citizens who refuse to pay taxes and they legally don’t. They live here. The are not consenting to be ruled by the wicked. Living here doesn’t give tacit acceptance of the rules.

 

[Lemuel]

Even if you don’t vote you are still morally obligated to accept their outcome.

Really? I’m morally obligated to accept the outcome of a game that I had no interest in? I guess I’m immoral then . . . and I’ll be glad to take that up with my Maker at the judgment bar.

 

[Aquinas11]

There are many thousands of citizens who refuse to pay taxes and they legally don’t

Ok I see, so your posts about not voting are only directed to a subgroup of thousands of citizens and not to citizens in general.

 

[MPat]

plus i am from Croatia

Then it is probably the elections to European Parliament you’re interested in. In such case things are somewhat different.

Elections to European Parliament have to use proportional representation, as opposed to majoritarian system used in USA (and, since most of participants in this forum are from USA, some advice might have to be adapted). According to 2019 European Parliament election in Croatia - Wikipedia (Croatian Wikipedia seems to have a worse article), you will get to vote for one party list and for some of the individual candidates in that list.

What does that change?

First, when elections use proportional representation, you get not a two-party system, but a multi-party system. That, in turn, means that votes for “minor” parties are not necessarily wasted.

Second, when you get to choose candidates in party lists, you get more chances for “tactical voting”. For example, you can vote for a party list and a specific candidate in that list specifically to show support, to encourage him, to encourage the party to move closer to his position.

and i dont have interest in politic

That, specifically, is what the Church wants to discourage. As a citizen of a democratic state you are partially responsible for your government.

So, what can you do (if not for this election then, at least, for another)?

Read about the parties (at least the main ones). What ideologies they represent? What issues they find important? What have they done when they got power? (Lying politicians haven’t been unheard of.) What disagreements they have?

And read about Catholic Social Doctrine. For example, the Compendium of the social Doctrine of the Church (http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...peace_doc_20060526_compendio-dott-soc_en.html).

Then think how they match.

 

[MPat]

i suffer from social anxiety that s why its hard

It shouldn’t cause you much trouble. There isn’t much socialising during voting. Perhaps about as much, or even less than during Mass.

Most likely you will have to deal with one or two members of local electoral commission, to show your passport or identity card, to sign somewhere, to take the ballot paper.

To see the process you can look at the video by your Ministry of Defence, showing how soldiers vote -

To illustrate that the man in video doing some talking is actually uncommon, I guess a Lithuanian video (by Supreme Electoral Commission) will have to do:

- it is obviously in Lithuanian, but the pictures should show the approximate process pretty clearly. The process itself is unlikely to be very different.

 

[sebo3e]

Hey does that mean i am responible for my goverment where i dont know a thing?
yeah i feel that i dont live in this word i know i will probably be seen as crazy but i depend on others because i cant act on my own sadly because of my disablity hope you understand?

plus in my country everything is corupted and almoust half of politic party is supporting either drugs abortion homosexuality plus the other problem is that not shure how whould i say to understand you wont belive that that this what s done in Croatia in America whould be treated probably more harsh
can i know something also when we ignore all these facts i explain my

To this i readed as being obligated to do things nobody cares if you have disablity suffer or enything else depend on others you know i mean whu feel like is mentally messed up

I know its so strange i said but i wish i could do something about this someone whu will show compassion and understanding i go trough

 

[sebo3e]

What do you think that if is possible to you that you can pray for me to do the right thing?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It is not a sin to not vote.

Wrong. The Catechism (CCC 2240) in the section on “Duties of Citizens” says voting is “morally obligatory”:

[2240] Submission to authority and co-responsibility for the common good make it morally obligatory to pay taxes, to exercise the right to vote, and to defend one’s country.

You are expected to vote for the candidate who in your opinion is best going to put into practice Christian values. Obviously if it is a case where both candidates seem awful, you can vote third party, or write-in, or vote for all other issues and people on the ballot besides the one problematic race, but you are morally obligated to vote and not just sit home on your tuchis.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

just learned that its a sin if we dont vote

Please see the catechism section I posted.

When the Catechism says it’s “morally obligatory”, then yes it’s a sin if we fail to meet our moral obligation without an extremely good reason for the failure. For example, if the state put some kind of onerous unfair burden on voting, such as a large poll tax that we couldn’t afford, it would be morally acceptable to not vote.

I have no idea how so many Catholics are thinking it’s perfectly okay to not vote when it’s right in the Catechism as a moral obligation.

 

[MPat]

Hey does that mean i am responible for my goverment where i dont know a thing?

plus in my country everything is corupted and almoust half of politic party is supporting either drugs abortion homosexuality

Um, if you “don’t know a thing”, how do you know all that?

To this i readed as being obligated to do things nobody cares if you have disablity suffer or enything else depend on others you know i mean whu feel like is mentally messed up

The things you listed as scary are simply not things that have to be dealt with while voting. Thus, presumably, your disability is unlikely to cause you much trouble (in this specific case). Of course, if there are problems you didn’t list, things might be different.

Yet I still hope that if you try, next time you won’t be scared of voting at all.

What do you think that if is possible to you that you can pray for me to do the right thing?

Yes, that looks like a good idea. Speaking of which, you might wish to post in “Prayer Intentions” subforum.