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Barbkw
Guest
Is this the direct quote from the YouCat?
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Barbkw
Guest
If so, it’s a very poor choice in wording.
The word demonizing shouldn’t have been used at all.
Simply stating that masturbation is a mortal sin, would have been a sufficient end to the matter.
It then should have gone on to detail how prevelant immoral sexual activity is and how it is accepted in society but that that attitude is a learned disorder to the human condition.
So much can be said here.
To express compassion for those who in various ways addict themselves to this activity and how damaging it is to chastity and their relationship with other people. How difficult it becomes to break this habit and what steps are most helpful in tempering sexual desire.
The word demonizing shouldn’t have been used at all.
Simply stating that masturbation is a mortal sin, would have been a sufficient end to the matter.
It then should have gone on to detail how prevelant immoral sexual activity is and how it is accepted in society but that that attitude is a learned disorder to the human condition.
So much can be said here.
To express compassion for those who in various ways addict themselves to this activity and how damaging it is to chastity and their relationship with other people. How difficult it becomes to break this habit and what steps are most helpful in tempering sexual desire.
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Cristiano
Guest
First this is a translation from a German text. Second this book is written to put things in the proper context for young people. Third I do not think that there is a common agreement on the verb “to demonize”. In some cases to demonize is to make something an agent of evil, more than being evil in itself. I think that people waste too much time in chasing heresy in individual words instead of trying to educate the youth on the concept of sin and why it is to be avoided. A lot of people look at sin a something black and white just to be avoided and do not look a it as how it causes separation between man and God. I truly think that the eastern Catholics do a better job than the Latin Catholics when it comes to teach about sin to the young ones. Remember this is a book for the youth, youth that usually is not that well educated or catechized. We have already seen a worst case than this in the Italian translation of this same book, that is a bigger can of worms.
If we were really concerned about heresy associated with specific words then we would freak out at hearing some of the older Catholic prayers that make perfect sense when accepted with consideration to their poetic form but they would be borderline heretical if taken literally.
If we were really concerned about heresy associated with specific words then we would freak out at hearing some of the older Catholic prayers that make perfect sense when accepted with consideration to their poetic form but they would be borderline heretical if taken literally.
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Joe_5859
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Yes, that is the actual wording in the English edition of the YouCat.
I tend to agree with the blogger that the phrase he underlined could have been worded better, but that’s a far cry from being “heretical theology”.
This is an area where many youth struggle, and they likely sought to phrase it in such a way that inspires hope rather than despair in those who are entrenched in the throes of this vice. Simply saying that it is a mortal sin, so don’t do it, is not sufficient.
Some of the comments to that blog post are somewhat troubling. One commenter says “YouCat ought to be made to scat! I hope Pope Benedict reads this thing and orders it to be thrown into a bonfire!” Um, does he not realize that Pope Benedict wrote the Foreword to YouCat?
I’m pretty sure he read it and approves of it.
I’ve looked through the YouCat quite a bit and I have no problems recommending it. Any resource is going to have areas where clarification is needed (and two people may come to different interpretations of the same text regardless of how well crafted it is). I think YouCat is hands down the best resource of this type available.
Pope Benedict writes in the Foreword: “Study this Catechism! This is my heartfelt desire.” I certainly would be very cautious about going against the heartfelt desire of the Pope. But maybe that’s just me.
I tend to agree with the blogger that the phrase he underlined could have been worded better, but that’s a far cry from being “heretical theology”.
This is an area where many youth struggle, and they likely sought to phrase it in such a way that inspires hope rather than despair in those who are entrenched in the throes of this vice. Simply saying that it is a mortal sin, so don’t do it, is not sufficient.
Some of the comments to that blog post are somewhat troubling. One commenter says “YouCat ought to be made to scat! I hope Pope Benedict reads this thing and orders it to be thrown into a bonfire!” Um, does he not realize that Pope Benedict wrote the Foreword to YouCat?
I’m pretty sure he read it and approves of it.I’ve looked through the YouCat quite a bit and I have no problems recommending it. Any resource is going to have areas where clarification is needed (and two people may come to different interpretations of the same text regardless of how well crafted it is). I think YouCat is hands down the best resource of this type available.
Pope Benedict writes in the Foreword: “Study this Catechism! This is my heartfelt desire.” I certainly would be very cautious about going against the heartfelt desire of the Pope. But maybe that’s just me.
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Joe_5859
Guest
:clapping:
Amen to that! Reading through some of St. Louis de Montfort’s writings might convince a person that certain Protestants are right when they accuse Catholics of worshipping Mary.
In our present culture which can be so inimical of our faith, we understandably become guarded in regards to right teaching. But I think we can also do damage by being constantly on heresy patrol – particularly concerning resources like this that are given to us by the Church Herself.
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Duga
Guest
Facts to have in mind about Youcat :
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8066856&postcount=7
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8066856&postcount=7
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highcalling
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waywardson
Guest
Except that such a statement would not be the teaching of the Catholic Church.
The “grown up” Catechism says that masturbation is “intrinsically gravely disordered”, however, it also says: “To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that lessen or even extenuate moral culpability.” CCC 2352.
It also says that mortal sin is the kind of sin that goes against the love of God and of neighbor. CCC 1856. It also says that passions and psychological issues may reduce the full consent of an objectively seriously disordered activity. CCC 1860.
YouCat got it right. The Pope knows what he is talking about–imagine that!
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twoangels
Guest
I completely agree. I don’t think teens would interpret “does not intend to demonize” to mean that masturbation is not gravely sinful. Its a confusing thing to talk about because how the Church uses words and how common people use words is different. In academic circles masturbation occurs in all acts of foreplay. Any manual stimulation is masturbation whether it occurs as foreplay before intercourse or not. The Church here isn’t defining masturbation but working with the teen’s language. As such, in not “demonizing” it is avoiding the misinterpretation that sexual pleasure is evil or can only be morally rationalized through procreation (like a necessary evil). It rather focuses on understanding that seeking sexual pleasure in isolation is morally disordered. These faculties were designed to unite husband and wife together. There is no one to unite to when you masturbate, as such it can encourage an objectifying attitude that can affect your marriage later on.
Honestly, you can nitpick how things are worded all the time, but the process of being formed in your faith is a process. Everyone has moral misunderstandings whether it leans toward being scrupulous or too permissive. Catechesis is a part of forming the conscience, but its not all about what the words say. Its also about developing your prayer life and allowing the Holy Spirit to help you understand. Words at times (especially when using common language) can be fairly vague and kids tend to think the definition of terms are so universal that defining terms for clarity can become confusing and tedius for teens.
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