Question abt Mass

[vince2paul]

Few weeks ago, I attended a Sunday mass in a charismatic community, because I had to accompany the priest. It was so painful to see:

1. The priest gave a 45-minute homily, because usually he only gives 10 minutes homily. I pressumed that the committee made the priest do so.
2. All the hymns are charismatic hymns.
3. They changed the Lord have mercy, psalm, and holy. We sang some charismatic songs for Lord have mercy and psalm, and for the Holy, they sang a ‘different’ version of Holy. Somehow, the song only consists of this;
   “Holy, holy holy Lord,
   God of power and might,
   Heaven and earth are full of your Glory.”

Btw, this mass is done in their native language and they only had this mass once a month. So is it permissible?

I know that they shouldn’t change the psalm, but is there any supporting document abt it?

I don’t think I’ll ever want to attend their mass again, although it’s done in my native language. I feel as if I was in a charismatic prayer group meeting instead of mass. It’s nothing against charismatic as I’m also active in charismatic prayer group in my parish, but only this one makes me uncomfortable.

All comments are appreciated. Peace~

 

[Caesar]

Attempts at mixing pentecostal protestantism with Catholicism. Disrespect for the Mass. Tempted to use the word relativist here.

 

[Walking_Home]

Few weeks ago, I attended a Sunday mass in a charismatic community, because I had to accompany the priest. It was so painful to see:

1. The priest gave a 45-minute homily, because usually he only gives 10 minutes homily. I pressumed that the committee made the priest do so.
2. All the hymns are charismatic hymns.
3. They changed the Lord have mercy, psalm, and holy. We sang some charismatic songs for Lord have mercy and psalm, and for the Holy, they sang a ‘different’ version of Holy. Somehow, the song only consists of this;
   “Holy, holy holy Lord,
   God of power and might,
   Heaven and earth are full of your Glory.”

Btw, this mass is done in their native language and they only had this mass once a month. So is it permissible?

I know that they shouldn’t change the psalm, but is there any supporting document abt it?

I don’t think I’ll ever want to attend their mass again, although it’s done in my native language. I feel as if I was in a charismatic prayer group meeting instead of mass. It’s nothing against charismatic as I’m also active in charismatic prayer group in my parish, but only this one makes me uncomfortable.

All comments are appreciated. Peace~

---

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter%20III

[114.] “At Sunday Masses in parishes, insofar as parishes are ‘Eucharistic communities’, it is customary to find different groups, movements, associations, and even the smaller religious communities present in the parish.”[202] While it is permissible that Mass should be celebrated for particular groups according to the norm of law,[203] these groups are nevertheless not exempt from the faithful observance of the liturgical norms.

 

[vince2paul]

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter%20III

[114.] “At Sunday Masses in parishes, insofar as parishes are ‘Eucharistic communities’, it is customary to find different groups, movements, associations, and even the smaller religious communities present in the parish.”[202] While it is permissible that Mass should be celebrated for particular groups according to the norm of law,[203] these groups are nevertheless not exempt from the faithful observance of the liturgical norms.

off topic, I believe there’s a divine power guiding me just now. I was looking at the vatican website and instead of 114, I ‘find’ 104.

I was so sad at the moment as I realised I received the Holy Eucharist illicitly last nite. The priest held both the concetrated bread and wine and he went around letting the people do self intinction. But he was already right in front of me and said “body and blood of Christ.” I knew I shouldn’t ‘take’ and dip it, but I don’t know what to do. I and this morning I read through the GIRM but couldn’t find it. And now it’s right there, 104!

[104.] The communicant must not be permitted to intinct the host himself in the chalice, nor to receive the intincted host in the hand. As for the host to be used for the intinction, it should be made of valid matter, also consecrated; it is altogether forbidden to use non-consecrated bread or other matter.

I’m going to meet the parist priest as it’s been done like this for years. thanks!

 

[lak611]

Few weeks ago, I attended a Sunday mass in a charismatic community, because I had to accompany the priest. It was so painful to see:

1. The priest gave a 45-minute homily, because usually he only gives 10 minutes homily. I pressumed that the committee made the priest do so.

Nothing wrong with that!

1. All the hymns are charismatic hymns.

That might be acceptable too, depending on what the hymns are.

1. They changed the Lord have mercy, psalm, and holy. We sang some charismatic songs for Lord have mercy and psalm, and for the Holy, they sang a ‘different’ version of Holy. Somehow, the song only consists of this;
   “Holy, holy holy Lord,
   God of power and might,
   Heaven and earth are full of your Glory.”

Btw, this mass is done in their native language and they only had this mass once a month. So is it permissible?

Their native language *is *the vernacular, so this is acceptable.

I know that they shouldn’t change the psalm, but is there any supporting document abt it? The psalm is determined by the lectionary, but there are many different musical settings of the same Psalm. This, too may have been ok.

I am not a fan of Charismatic/Pentecostal style Masses, but they can be done in a manner that is valid and licit. There is a young woman at my parish who loves Charismatic Masses, but yet wears a Mantilla to all Masses that she assists at. So, you cannot judge the validity/licitnous of a Mass or the congregation that attends one by any special “formula”.

I don’t think I’ll ever want to attend their mass again, although it’s done in my native language. I feel as if I was in a charismatic prayer group meeting instead of mass. It’s nothing against charismatic as I’m also active in charismatic prayer group in my parish, but only this one makes me uncomfortable.

All comments are appreciated. Peace~

 

[jbuck919]

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vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter%20III

[114.] “At Sunday Masses in parishes, insofar as parishes are ‘Eucharistic communities’, it is customary to find different groups, movements, associations, and even the smaller religious communities present in the parish.”[202] While it is permissible that Mass should be celebrated for particular groups according to the norm of law,[203] these groups are nevertheless not exempt from the faithful observance of the liturgical norms.

That may qualify as the most ambiguous instruction of all time.

 

[Walking_Home]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home

vatican.va/roman_curia/co…#Chapter%20III

[114.] “At Sunday Masses in parishes, insofar as parishes are ‘Eucharistic communities’, it is customary to find different groups, movements, associations, and even the smaller religious communities present in the parish.”[202] While it is permissible that Mass should be celebrated for particular groups according to the norm of law,[203] these groups are nevertheless not exempt from the faithful observance of the liturgical norms.

That may qualify as the most ambiguous instruction of all time.

---

What is abiguous about it. The charismatics are not exempt from following liturgical norms.

 

[Rykell]

1. The priest gave a 45-minute homily, because usually he only gives 10 minutes homily. I pressumed that the committee made the priest do so.
   This is customary, for it is not the regular Sunday mass, but a monthly celebration primarily for charismatic catholics. They usually allot more time for a homily.

1. All the hymns are charismatic hymns.
   Not a problem. At funerals, the hymns chosen reflect the resurrection and eternal life. At marriages, they speak of the union of man and wife. Children’s liturgies have music scaled to the young who are present and the mass has its own canon in language suited to their understanding – it is very beautiful! Charismatics choose songs specifically adapted to praise of God in contemporary music settings.

1. They changed the Lord have mercy, psalm, and holy. We sang some charismatic songs for Lord have mercy and psalm, and for the Holy, they sang a ‘different’ version of Holy.
   The rubrics allow for alternate psalmody, providing these are taken from scripture. There is a lawful book published for music ministers to use called “Respond & Acclaim.”
   I don’t know what the hymn was for the Sanctus, but I have seen children’s liturgies use a different version as well.
   The penitential rite permits other prayers besides the traditional Kyrie, but you may not have seen this if you attend traditional rite masses.

Btw, this mass is done in their native language and they only had this mass once a month. So is it permissible?
Once a month? Why not? Was it a weekday celebration specific for charismatics? Perfectly legit. If it was a regular Sunday liturgy, the bulletin should state this. Some churches in the south have a vernacular celebration for the Spanish on Sunday solely for this ethnic group, but it is celebrated at 7 PM and also announced in the bulletin.

I don’t think I’ll ever want to attend their mass again, although it’s done in my native language.
Then why the fuss? Simply tell the priest you do not wish to accompany him the next time.

 

[Walking_Home]

Btw, this mass is done in their native language and they only had this mass once a month. So is it permissible?
Once a month? Why not? Was it a weekday celebration specific for charismatics? Perfectly legit. If it was a regular Sunday liturgy, the bulletin should state this. Some churches in the south have a vernacular celebration for the Spanish on Sunday solely for this ethnic group, but it is celebrated at 7 PM and also announced in the bulletin.

I don’t think I’ll ever want to attend their mass again, although it’s done in my native language.
Then why the fuss? Simply tell the priest you do not wish to accompany him the next time.

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Whether its once a month or two months----they are not exempt from the norms.

 

[Rykell]

I agree, Walking Home.

However, from what I see in the OP’s post, nothing he stated is beyond the norm. Did you see anything that you consider illicit?

 

[Walking_Home]

I agree, Walking Home.

However, from what I see in the OP’s post, nothing he stated is beyond the norm. Did you see anything that you consider illicit?

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I wasn’t there. The OP was in attendance and only he–will be able to determine whether the charismatic Mass followed the norms. I just provided a statement from RS.

Oh—I guess you missed the following in the OP’s post #4.

Quote=vince2paul

off topic, I believe there’s a divine power guiding me just now. I was looking at the vatican website and instead of 114, I ‘find’ 104.

I was so sad at the moment as I realised I received the Holy Eucharist illicitly last nite. The priest held both the concetrated bread and wine and he went around letting the people do self intinction. But he was already right in front of me and said “body and blood of Christ.” I knew I shouldn’t ‘take’ and dip it, but I don’t know what to do. I and this morning I read through the GIRM but couldn’t find it. And now it’s right there, 104!

 

[Rykell]

I was so sad at the moment as I realised I received the Holy Eucharist illicitly** last nite. ** I’m going to meet the parist priest as it’s been done like this for years.

Yes, I saw it W.H. Did you see the OP?

Few weeks ago, I attended a Sunday mass in a charismatic community, because I had to accompany the priest.

I hope you are not thinking the two are one and the same? I had the impression he would not be going back to a charismatic mass, so there is no visible evidence to conclude that the latter abuse occured in the charismatic mass.

 

[Walking_Home]

Yes, I saw it W.H. Did you see the OP?

I hope you are not thinking the two are one and the same? I had the impression he would not be going back to a charismatic mass, so there is no visible evidence to conclude that the latter abuse occured in the charismatic mass.

---

I missed it (last night)----but it makes no difference. Only the OP can determine if the charismatic Mass was according to the norms. As to the self intinction ----well that is not allowed in any Mass.