Question: are women to blame for being raped if they were wearing revealing clothing according to teaching?

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Hey this is sort of a sidebar, maybe I need to start another thread but I have never, ever understood the saying that rape is about violence and power and not about sex. Say a man slips a knockout drug into a women’s drink, isn’t it really just about him having the opportunity to have easy sex? And I read a poll one time that asked if men could get away with rape, would they do it? And the percentage who said yes was uncomfortably high–it was over 50%! If it were really all about power, wouldn’t a man just as likely to rape a weaker man than a woman? And not to mention a really, really high number of rapists view pornography on a regular, ongoing basis. I don’t get it!
 
LemonAndLime said:
Ah I see, thank you all for explaining it to me. I do agree with what one poster said - that linking the discussion of modesty and rape is a dangerous one because they’re not really related. I can see how a woman is asking for sexual attention by dressing provokatively, but I don’t think that’s a “green light” for rapists. How they chose their victim rarely relates to how their victim is dressed from what I know of it. The majority of rapes in the western world are committed by someone the victim knew - usually a partner or close friend/relative. That fact in itself seems to disprove the idea that how you dress can lead to rape - in some cases, perhaps - but not in most. I still don’t think the victim is ever at fault, but as someone else said - may be responsible for putting themselves in that situation with a stranger (if it is a stranger, I remember hearing somewhere that stranger-rape is less than 10% of cases (around 2% in some areas)).
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Brendan said:
It is never the woman’s fault, but that does not mean that a woman should not have taken prudent steps to prevent it.

For example. If I left a Porsche unlocked, windows down, with the keys in the ignition overnite on an inner city street, would it be my ‘fault’ if it was stolen?

No, I did not ask for the Porsche to be stolen. But that does not mean that what I did was prudent.
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You leave a brand new computer, tv, microwave, whatever in you unlocked car. Are you to blame for them being stolen?
 
turtle18 said:
Hey this is sort of a sidebar, maybe I need to start another thread but I have never, ever understood the saying that rape is about violence and power and not about sex. Say a man slips a knockout drug into a women’s drink, isn’t it really just about him having the opportunity to have easy sex? And I read a poll one time that asked if men could get away with rape, would they do it? And the percentage who said yes was uncomfortably high–it was over 50%! If it were really all about power, wouldn’t a man just as likely to rape a weaker man than a woman? And not to mention a really, really high number of rapists view pornography on a regular, ongoing basis. I don’t get it!
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Psych 101 - rape is about power and degrading a woman. The “high” they get is not from the sex but from the power. We aren’t talking normal sexual mores here. . . . . 🤷
 
LemonAndLime said:
I read this quote on a Catholic website explaining teachings of the Church -

scripturecatholic.com/modest_dress.html

Does this imply that women are to blame if they are raped while wearing immodest dress? I may not know a lot about Catholicism but it seems to be implying so here. I don’t know which is more likely to be insulting to people - the suggestion that men are sexual creatures who can’t help themselves, or that women who wear short skirts are asking for it.
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Dressing immodestly can tempt men toward impure thoughts and masturbation as well as sexual activity with a woman he is not married (I refer to consenual sexual activity rather than rape). The man is still at fault if he rapes her and even if the sexual activity is consensual, he still is culpable for the parts he played and consented to. However, out of charity and chastity, women should dress modestly just as dating couples should avoid all other near occassions of sin. I don’t believe it is at all saying that dressing immodestly leads a man to rape because he lacks total self control. It rather acknowledges that it is immoral for her to sexually entice the man.
 
kozlosap said:
Psych 101 - rape is about power and degrading a woman. The “high” they get is not from the sex but from the power. We aren’t talking normal sexual mores here. . . . . 🤷
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Psych 101 - Everyone is different and nothing applies to all people. I think the poster had a valid point. I have seen where it has happened and it was about the sex.
 
I would like to take a moment to applaud the responses to the OP for there gentleness. It would be hard for me to be so kind. One of the good things about the feminist movement is that it has helped us leave this kind of thinking in the dark ages. Gone are the days when a woman was called a whore if she did not defend her honor to the death. The shame victims were forced to endure was often worse than the crime itself. It is sad that some interpretations of the Bible were used to perpetuate this gross cruelty.

I will add though that we can not say that rape is never about sex for the rapist. I may well be for some. But we can say that no woman, or any victim of this vicious demeaning crime, should feel any guilt or shame, or that they are ever in any way responsible. They are simply victims.
 
mcteague said:
I would like to take a moment to applaud the responses to the OP for there gentleness. It would be hard for me to be so kind. One of the good things about the feminist movement is that it has helped us leave this kind of thinking in the dark ages. Gone are the days when a woman was called a whore if she did not defend her honor to the death. The shame victims were forced to endure was often worse than the crime itself. It is sad that some interpretations of the Bible were used to perpetuate this gross cruelty.

I will add though that we can not say that rape is never about sex for the rapist. I may well be for some. But we can say that no woman, or any victim of this vicious demeaning crime, should feel any guilt or shame, or that they are ever in any way responsible. They are simply victims.
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👍
 
I just want to say, as the OP, that I never actually thought that women were to blame for rape, ever. I am a staunch feminist myself.

I just misunderstood that particular paragraph and I was confused, that’s all.
 
NO! WOMEN ARE NEVER TO BLAME FOR RAPE! EVER! EVEN IF SHE WAS WALKING AROUND NAKED SHE WOULD NOT TO BE BLAMED! RAPE IS A CRIME OF CONTROL NOT SEX. :mad:
  • Yes, I am aware I was shouting. Yes, it was justified.
 
Everyone should dress modestly, but lack of modesty is not an invitation for rape, nor should a victim be blamed for being immodest because this is very damaging to their recovery. Rape is more about violence and humiliating the victim. It also gives the perpetrator a sense of power and control. Sadly, even religious sisters and nuns have been raped.

I see that you are considering becoming Catholic. God bless you on your journey of faith!
 
Thank you! I am going to start attending RCIA classes in 2 weeks, I’m very excited 😃 everyone on this forum has been so kind it’s really encouraging.
 
vera docere said:
I took the quote to mean that men might see a barely dressed woman and then go off to the bathroom and commit impure acts against himself thinking of her, or might go home to his wife and think of the barely dressed woman while he’s with his wife, or go hire a prostititue because his sexual desires were hyped up.

Frankly, I think the whole “its the woman’s fault if she gets raped because she was wearing [or not wearing] certain clothing” thing speaks volumes against men, its a male hatred isn’t it, implying men can’t control themselves, that they’re weak willed and can’t control their baser instincts.

And as someone said, rape isn’t about sex, its about power.

Doesn’t matter what anyone ever does or wears, it does not justify rape or lessen the seriousness of the man’s action.

Men get raped too, and chances are those that do might not have been wearing mini skirts and heels at the time.
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Exactly True.

NOBODY! deserves the poignant destruction of rape or incest assault in their lives.

Being an Asexual/Heterosexual Male Victim of Gang-Rape & Torture at Gunpoint I have a strong distaste for any person who blames a woman who is raped.

I see some self-righteous finger pointing in this thread. Perhaps those who would do this finger-pointing would best ingrain themselves in thorough intent study on how children and adult victims of rape, incest and spousal abuse whose souls are destroyed in shattered pieces. Many whom take a lifetime to find genuine healing, peace or some tangible form of closure within themselves. Educational resources from a psychiatric and psychotherapy avenue only scratch the surface of suffering that victims go through in ongoing physical, mental and spiritual turmoil with unspeakable anguish. Nobody who has never gone through rape or incest could not ever fully imagine.

Being a Victim myself I would have a difficult time articulating everything its done to me.

But thankfully God has helped me find (“some”) tangible forms peace.
 
LemonAndLime said:
I read this quote on a Catholic website explaining teachings of the Church -

scripturecatholic.com/modest_dress.html

Does this imply that women are to blame if they are raped while wearing immodest dress? I may not know a lot about Catholicism but it seems to be implying so here. I don’t know which is more likely to be insulting to people - the suggestion that men are sexual creatures who can’t help themselves, or that women who wear short skirts are asking for it.
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Women are never to be blamed for rape. However immodest clothing is immoral as and can be an act of vanity and for some an occasion of sin. Neverthless men must never consent to any evil temptation. “My grace is sufficent for thee”
 
I’m reassured with the replies to this topic, since it did seem that from some of the endless modesty discussions I’ve read here (as well as non-Catholic Christian sites), that the logical conclusion would be that a woman who dresses immodestly is somehow responsible for raising uncontrollable desires in poor, innocent men who are absolved of responsibility for their actions. However, while it seems there’s a consensus that men who commit rape are still responsible for their actions, the consensus also seems to be that rape isn’t really about sex, anyway. So, what if a man doesn’t commit rape, but does react to temptation in other ways such as masturbating, trying to seduce the lightly dressed woman, hiring a prostitute (especially if the immodestly dressed woman is a prostitute), etc? Would everyone still agree that such a man is still responsible for his actions? Or would his culpability be mitigated by the scandalous actions of “that woman”?
 
ToeInTheWater said:
I’m reassured with the replies to this topic, since it did seem that from some of the endless modesty discussions I’ve read here (as well as non-Catholic Christian sites), that the logical conclusion would be that a woman who dresses immodestly is somehow responsible for raising uncontrollable desires in poor, innocent men who are absolved of responsibility for their actions. However, while it seems there’s a consensus that men who commit rape are still responsible for their actions, the consensus also seems to be that rape isn’t really about sex, anyway. So, what if a man doesn’t commit rape, but does react to temptation in other ways such as masturbating, trying to seduce the lightly dressed woman, hiring a prostitute (especially if the immodestly dressed woman is a prostitute), etc? Would everyone still agree that such a man is still responsible for his actions? Or would his culpability be mitigated by the scandalous actions of “that woman”?
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**Hmm; if put many of the things you describe where a man’s over eager libido and sexual urges basically viewed as lust from his heart into moral question. I’d say in many of these instances a man challenged with lust in his own heart is definitely his own fault in not being able to control his sexual urges of lust.

Sure a woman who dresses provocatively in a deliberate manner doesn’t help the weak nature of men who may look at her. But ultimately it is the man who needs to curb his urges of lust and prudently remove himself from places where there is temptation that play on his weakness. We all have the Freedom and responsibility of choice to deliver ourselves up from our own selfish lower nature or not. A man takes full responsibility for his own lusts. One cannot blame a woman who dresses sleazy, that is her immoral choice.** I don’t see where its completely fair to blame a woman for a man’s own lusts even if she is wearing sexy clothing. Ultimately it is the man who has the choice to look away instead of entertaining his thoughts with lust.

I would say that Jesus knew men very well in man’s weakness when He said; even if a man looks at a woman with lust he has already committed the sin of adultery in his heart.
 
No, absolutely not! The only thing that they would be guilty of is immodesty. It is up to the man to control his sexual urges.
 
catholicgirl201 said:
Rape is never a womans fault.
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Not true.
No woman ever asks to be raped.
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Some do, either implicitly or explicitly.
How can one implicitly ask for evil to befall them? By putting oneself in a situation where evil is likely to happen. For example, hanging out with drug dealers is implicitly asking for trouble. Someone gets beat up or killed, they did not necessarily ask for it, but it would nonetheless be naive to not expect it. In fact, placing ones life in danger by being in such a situation is a sin in itself.
Rapists even attack people who dress modestly too
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Quite correct. Just as murderers kill people out of the blue for no apparent reason. The moral culpability of the person who is killed while minding his own business in his home is certainly missing. On the otherhand, the person instigating a riot with gang bangers who is subsequently murdered certainly has some share in the blame when he gets killed. It does not in anyway diminish the moral culpability of the person who commits the crime, however. But to say the person who is killed would be an innocent victim is incorrect.
[quoteso what type of clothes you wear has nothing to do with it.
[/quote]Incorrect. The examples we set in the way we dress has a tremendous effect on the example of Christ we set in the world. Dress as a heathen, don’t expect the example of Christ to be present. Scandal is just as much a sin, if not a worse sin than rape.
 
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