Question for Adventists.....

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Hello,
I’ve been attending an SDA church for about 4 months so I am not an Adventist but I am learning and studying the doctrines. Some doctrines I will probably never accept, but I still feel compelled to share the many blessings I have received through this church.

Btw, I was raised Roman Catholic and as a teen had fellowship with Baptists. My mother was Roman Catholic and my father was a Methodist. I’m definitely not a Catholic-basher; many of my dear family members find their faith in that church.

Here are some of my favorites:
  • The Sabbath - I really want to respond to post #96 but y’all seemed bored by it.
  • The Great Controversy.
  • An appreciation of the wisdom of the full Bible - Old and New Testament.
  • An understanding of death and resurrection - soul sleep.
  • An understanding of Revelations - no hell.
  • Believer’s Baptism.
  • Social leadership - Health Message, peaceful non-combatants.
For me it’s about understanding the loving character of God.
I hope there is some interest in more dialog.

-paul
 
My response will start with the question - should Christians still remember the Sabbath and keep it holy?
I say yes!
For me it’s an institution that was established in Genesis and was important enough to reiterate in the Ten Commandments.

I read the arguments found at this link: bible.ca/H-sunday.htm
I reject that the 10 commandments have been abolished. Romans 3:31
Jesus fulfilled the law and gave us 2 new commandments, which capture the spirit of the original ten. If you love God with all your heart, mind, and soul and love your neighbor as yourself, you will keep the 10 as a consequence.

So why would God care whether I keep the Sabbath or not? Isn’t this just a day of rest for mankind?
It’s about spending quality time with God - it’s a “date”. Like humans, God has a desire to have meaningful loving relationships with us:
Song, praise, knowing Him through study, service towards others. There are many ways to love God.

I’ve read Acts 20:7 and 1 Cor 16:1-2 and they are not explicit declarations of a new day for the Sabbath.
I also think there is a bit of arrogance in men to change a law which God etched in stone.
I won’t argue too strongly over Fri-Sat versus Sunday, but I wonder if hearts are really set to spend a whole day with God and know Him better as a Father and friend.

Oh another, SDA thingy here - they believe Sabbath is the Seal of God and Sunday will be the mark of the beast. I reject this.
 
johnshark said:
i believe the reason he waited to convert is because it is against the law in England for a Catholic to hold high public office
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I do know that johnshark, that’s why I said I’m thankful for small mercies…though that law may be changed, at least there is a pressure group to do so…ha, I wonder who ‘they’ could be??

No John I meant what I said there, Have you been to Rome? Besides, I need to ease up on the debating because we are just not getting anywhere, and by that I mean it is serving no purpose. We are all Christians and as you rightly say we have many beliefs in common and I am thankful for that…we are all part of the Christian Church…and the rightness of your or my arguments will be revealed in the future…I think Roman Catholics believe that the end is nigh too don’t you, that the second coming of our Lord is near yes?

Funny you should mention the devil not wanting the unity of the Christian Church…ha ha, (funny he never got a mention till I mentioned him? He loves to operate in the backround even better when we say that he does not exist huh?? Perfect for him!!) Well what if my view was that maybe ‘he’ does want the unity, it could fall in with his plans quite well, he is the great deceiver and I know what he has up his sleeve…unity is part of his plans for the last day events…but I am getting away from too much arguing…😉

The most important thing is that our God is in overall charge and those who are saved through His shed blood have nothing to fear. but fear itself, because our Lord and King is coming back to put everything right, and everyone into their place…especially me, as Paul said, I am the chief of sinners…

So, Shalom brothers and sisters, may God bless all here. Michael.

PS. I was in San Francisco a few years ago, lovely place too, we hope to visit Boston next year along with New York and Washington DC, Ha sorry, I call it the second Rome, aren’t the buildings so like the old place…ha ENOUGH MAN…!!!:eek:
 
phummel said:
My response will start with the question - should Christians still remember the Sabbath and keep it holy?
I say yes!
For me it’s an institution that was established in Genesis and was important enough to reiterate in the Ten Commandments.

I read the arguments found at this link: bible.ca/H-sunday.htm
I reject that the 10 commandments have been abolished. Romans 3:31
Jesus fulfilled the law and gave us 2 new commandments, which capture the spirit of the original ten. If you love God with all your heart, mind, and soul and love your neighbor as yourself, you will keep the 10 as a consequence.

So why would God care whether I keep the Sabbath or not? Isn’t this just a day of rest for mankind?
It’s about spending quality time with God - it’s a “date”. Like humans, God has a desire to have meaningful loving relationships with us:
Song, praise, knowing Him through study, service towards others. There are many ways to love God.

I’ve read Acts 20:7 and 1 Cor 16:1-2 and they are not explicit declarations of a new day for the Sabbath.
I also think there is a bit of arrogance in men to change a law which God etched in stone.
I won’t argue too strongly over Fri-Sat versus Sunday, but I wonder if hearts are really set to spend a whole day with God and know Him better as a Father and friend.

Oh another, SDA thingy here - they believe Sabbath is the Seal of God and Sunday will be the mark of the beast. I reject this.
Click to expand...
Colossians 2:16-23 (New International Version)

16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

here the bible contradicts what the sda church says…
 
this makes it even clearer…

Colossians 2:13-15 (New International Version)

13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature,[a] God made you** alive with Christ. ***He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. *15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[c]
 
Micheal this is a copy/paste but this is what the Catholic Church believes according to St. Augustine

Catholicism mainly adheres to the Amillenial school of thought, promoted by Augustine of Hippo in his work “The City of God”. Augustine claims a non-literal fulfillment of prophecy. Catholics may also refer to Matthew’s Gospel, Chapter 24, Verse 36, in which Christ is quoted as saying:

“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (NIV Version)

While some who believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible insist that the prediction of dates or times is futile, some other writers believe that Jesus foretold of signs which would indicate that the “end of days” was near. Some of these signs include earthquakes, natural disasters, civil problems, ‘wars and rumors of wars’, and other catastrophes. Of the precise time, however, it will come like a “thief in the night.”

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Catholic beliefs concerning the “end times” are addressed in the Profession of Faith.
 
phummel said:
My response will start with the question - should Christians still remember the Sabbath and keep it holy?
I say yes!
For me it’s an institution that was established in Genesis and was important enough to reiterate in the Ten Commandments.

I read the arguments found at this link: bible.ca/H-sunday.htm
I reject that the 10 commandments have been abolished. Romans 3:31
Jesus fulfilled the law and gave us 2 new commandments, which capture the spirit of the original ten. If you love God with all your heart, mind, and soul and love your neighbor as yourself, you will keep the 10 as a consequence.

So why would God care whether I keep the Sabbath or not? Isn’t this just a day of rest for mankind?
It’s about spending quality time with God - it’s a “date”. Like humans, God has a desire to have meaningful loving relationships with us:
Song, praise, knowing Him through study, service towards others. There are many ways to love God.

I’ve read Acts 20:7 and 1 Cor 16:1-2 and they are not explicit declarations of a new day for the Sabbath.
I also think there is a bit of arrogance in men to change a law which God etched in stone.
I won’t argue too strongly over Fri-Sat versus Sunday, but I wonder if hearts are really set to spend a whole day with God and know Him better as a Father and friend.

Oh another, SDA thingy here - they believe Sabbath is the Seal of God and Sunday will be the mark of the beast. I reject this.
Click to expand...
Wow so wonderful to have you onboard!!! I have been besieged and out manouvered from all sides…ha so glad to see you.
No I have been to argumentative, because I was so ambushed and surrounded on all sides…ha, they are awful but i like them really!! Such cut and thrust of debate and discussion.😃

So glad to hear you are enjoying attending an Adventist Church and enjoying the fellowship, that is actually the most important, enjoying the fellowship and worshiping the Lord. Praise the Lord.
So Hello and glad to see you and maybe be we can have a more ‘civillised’ discussion!!:cool:

We are all members of the Christian Church and should behave as such, even though ‘they’ think they are ha ‘God’s chosen people’ ha ha.

Shalom, May God bless bless all here. Michael.👍
 
Brother2 said:
Were there any heretics then, maybe, but the Gospel was open to all. And who are the heretics we are worshiping with
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Yes, the Gospel which is supposed to be grounded in truth and not contradicting truths. How are we to worship your way using the Bible only if in fact protestants like yourselves dispute on certain dogmatic truths. You say the Sabbath is the day of worship, we say no. You say soul sleep, we say no. Some say hell doesn’t exist, others say it does. Some say you need to be baptized others say you don’t need it. Who with authortity is to dispute these concerns but yourselves? And even then you can never assure us cause you have no authority to preach if indeed you can error on basic Christian doctrine.

Many sola Scriptura believers are their own individual little Popes and they don’t even realize it.
 
johnshark said:
Micheal this is a copy/paste but this is what the Catholic Church believes according to St. Augustine

Catholicism mainly adheres to the Amillenial school of thought, promoted by Augustine of Hippo in his work “The City of God”. Augustine claims a non-literal fulfillment of prophecy. Catholics may also refer to Matthew’s Gospel, Chapter 24, Verse 36, in which Christ is quoted as saying:

“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (NIV Version)

While some who believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible insist that the prediction of dates or times is futile, some other writers believe that Jesus foretold of signs which would indicate that the “end of days” was near. Some of these signs include earthquakes, natural disasters, civil problems, ‘wars and rumors of wars’, and other catastrophes. Of the precise time, however, it will come like a “thief in the night.”

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Catholic beliefs concerning the “end times” are addressed in the Profession of Faith.
Click to expand...
Praise the Lord johnshark I think we actually agree here!! Wonderful. We have gave up setting dates, learned our lesson there:blush:…now don’t have a go at me cause I gave you that…ha ha.👍

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.😉
 
Brother2 said:
Praise the Lord johnshark I think we actually agree here!! Wonderful. We have gave up setting dates, learned our lesson there:blush:…now don’t have a go at me cause I gave you that…ha ha.👍

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.😉
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you may have given up setting dates but your prophet has been crying the end is near since she “got hit in the face with the rock”…

the rock thing has since been disproven, but then you knew that…
 
phummel said:
My response will start with the question - should Christians still remember the Sabbath and keep it holy?
I say yes!
For me it’s an institution that was established in Genesis and was important enough to reiterate in the Ten Commandments.

I read the arguments found at this link: bible.ca/H-sunday.htm
I reject that the 10 commandments have been abolished. Romans 3:31
Jesus fulfilled the law and gave us 2 new commandments, which capture the spirit of the original ten. If you love God with all your heart, mind, and soul and love your neighbor as yourself, you will keep the 10 as a consequence.

So why would God care whether I keep the Sabbath or not? Isn’t this just a day of rest for mankind?
It’s about spending quality time with God - it’s a “date”. Like humans, God has a desire to have meaningful loving relationships with us:
Song, praise, knowing Him through study, service towards others. There are many ways to love God.

I’ve read Acts 20:7 and 1 Cor 16:1-2 and they are not explicit declarations of a new day for the Sabbath.
I also think there is a bit of arrogance in men to change a law which God etched in stone.
I won’t argue too strongly over Fri-Sat versus Sunday, but I wonder if hearts are really set to spend a whole day with God and know Him better as a Father and friend.

Oh another, SDA thingy here - they believe Sabbath is the Seal of God and Sunday will be the mark of the beast. I reject this.
Click to expand...
Thank you brother phummell…you put it so well just like I put it on occasions, and I needed reminding… lovely quite like a poem! 🙂

As regards that last bit…only time and tide will tell on that one…

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.:cool:

Um I’m away to bed now like a good Christian… had a late night last night up till 2am with these ‘chosen people’ of the Roman Catholic Church…(only said in jest people),😉
 
johnshark said:
Colossians 2:16-23 (New International Version)

16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

here the bible contradicts what the sda church says…
Click to expand...
I believe there is a distinction between “The Sabbath” and Sabbath days. A Sabbath day would be another name for holiday - so different gentile cultures and nations might have different holidays.
Are we merely quibbling over days here or do you think the Sabbath should no longer be remembered and kept holy? This isn’t a salvation issue for me or something used to judge others, but rather I am blessed at being able to have rest and spend it with my best Friend.

-paul
 
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phummel:
Oh Dear this old red herring again:p:(…sabbath days with a small s people, Jews had other sabbath days which were not the Sabbath plus all their other ceremonial laws that they told the new Christians they had to keep along with the 10 Commandments…the Pharisees had the people burdened down with laws especially about the Sabbath and stuff which were their own creation,which all pointed to the Atoning work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

So it was not talking about the 7th day Sabbath, encased in stone and all that and a lovely birthday of the world when God met with His creation for praise and worship…

Maybe now I can get to bed. Goodnight, God bless all here. Michael.😉
 
johnshark said:
this makes it even clearer…

Colossians 2:13-15 (New International Version)

1*3When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature,[a] God made you alive with Christ. ***He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. ********15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[c]

its not often i get to quote myself but…especially verse 14
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I’m johnshark, I didn’t mean to neglect the other verse:
Colossians 2:13-15
So wonderful to quote such goodness.

No doubt, I’m glad my Father is not some legalist who bogs us down with rules and regulations. I also don’t want to be one of the Pharisees and be a good law biding Adventist and nail my savior to a cross.

However, I use my own family as an analogy - my dad used to give me rules like “don’t hit your sister. share your toys, etc…” As an immature child, I needed these explicit instructions. As an adult, I came to love my sister - no one needed to tell me these things anymore.

I treat the Ten Commandments in that same vain. They are 10 very reasonable guidelines that reflect the character of any good Christian. I’m not doing this out of obedience or fear, but rather I understand the value and good sense of them. You have to admit, it doesn’t take much to follow “thou shalt not kill”.

Even Jesus, recognized the value of them. He fulfilled the law and even expanded the commandments for the Christian heart:
Matthew 5:17-30

-paul
 
ok then i’m gonna ask you the same question i asked brother2…

how do you square the sda churches demand that you follow the sabbath commandment with their stated position that violating the thou shalt not kill commandment is OK IE. that abortion is OK in certain circumstances?:confused:

google sda and abortion and one of the first pages is the sda’s stated position.

man im glad i got spell check my typing stinks
 
johnshark said:
ok then i’m gonna ask you the same question i asked brother2…

how do you square the sda churches demand that you follow the sabbath commandment with their stated position that violating the thou shalt not kill commandment is OK IE. that abortion is OK in certain circumstances?:confused:

google sda and abortion and one of the first pages is the sda’s stated position.

man im glad i got spell check my typing stinks
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Hey johnshark, I’m sorry I can’t defend this at all for the SDA church but I will share my thoughts. I hold freedom and liberty in very high regard. I am pro-choice but it would never ever be my choice to abort a fetus. I am very pragmatic about governance; I don’t see how I can enforce someone to love a fetus that is growing inside of them. On a theological front, it is an abomination. How can we know when this is no longer a bundle of cells but a human being with a body-soul-spirit endowed by the Creator?
I am a conscientious objector to war. However, I will defend myself and this country under direct attack but I will not use weapons. A silly thing that I limit my violence to my body’s own capabilities. I think killing another person should be difficult.

Question to you: Why does RC deny the use of contraceptives, especially condoms?
 
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