Question for Adventists.....

[phummel]

Did you not tell us you are not a SDA? Why do you then suspect that we may get the impression your views reflect the views of the SDA? That, unfortunately, makes me suspicious.

placido

Placido, I am sorry you did not see my introductory post to this forum and thread. I assumed you did because you responded so quickly to my posts. Anyway here is who I am:

Hello,
I’ve been attending an SDA church for about 4 months so I am not an Adventist but I am learning and studying the doctrines. Some doctrines I will probably never accept, but I still feel compelled to share the many blessings I have received through this church.

Btw, I was raised Roman Catholic and as a teen had fellowship with Baptists. My mother was Roman Catholic and my father was a Methodist. I’m definitely not a Catholic-basher; many of my dear family members find their faith in that church.

Here are some of my favorites:

• The Sabbath - I really want to respond to post #96 but y’all seemed bored by it.
• The Great Controversy.
• An appreciation of the wisdom of the full Bible - Old and New Testament.
• An understanding of death and resurrection - soul sleep.
• An understanding of Revelations - no hell.
• Believer’s Baptism.
• Social leadership - Health Message, peaceful non-combatants.

For me it’s about understanding the loving character of God.
I hope there is some interest in more dialog.

-paul

 

[phummel]

It amazes me to see how far people are willing to go to directly or indirectly deffend abortion.

As a Christian, what would you do if I tell you one of the following:

1. I am going to defraud my employer;
2. I am going to steal my neighbor’s car;
3. I am going to kill my wife;
4. I am going to commit suicide.

Would you leave the “freedom” open or would you advise me against those immoral acts?
I am still asking myself: why, when it comes sex-related issues (abortion and contraception), do some “Christians”, especially SDAs, immediately recognize my “freedom” and my “liberty” and allege that advising me against those would be “hateful” and “repressive”?

placido

To all, on abortion:…
I’m not trying to be argumentative, but rather I need to be convinced; I need guidance; I need to understand what that new world would look like.

All, thank you for your insights on abortion. You are swaying my heart and I will probably change my politics as a result. I will continue to pray.
I will not be posting anymore messages on this thread.

God Bless You

 

[Des]

All, thank you for your insights on abortion. You are swaying my heart and I will probably change my politics as a result. I will continue to pray.
I will not be posting anymore messages on this thread.

God Bless You

That’s nice to hear phummel. I wish you well on your journey of truth here.

 

[Brother2]

Been taking a breather and having a condition that takes my energy away I needed a break…and been reading all the ‘blogs’ as I call them.

Seem to me that the Roman Catholics who write in this Forum are very down on anything to do with the Seventh-day Adventist Church? I assume there are many Roman Catholics who are not writing on this Forum are not so down on us, because I have met lots of Roman Catholics and they and I have got on very well!! There’s some who have even converted and been baptized into the Seventh-day Adventist Church and been very happy!!

Our interpretation of Scripture is not to be offensive to Roman Catholics, it just happens to be what we (and most Protestants until not so long ago) believe is the true interpretation of Scripture…and no harm intended towards Roman Catholics or even Popes…anyone living up to the light that they have is accepted by God, whether Roman Catholic or Seventh-day Adventist!! Granted there are a small number of Adventists might not agree with me, but i would hope that the majority do agree with me.

In regard to Abortion it could be that the RCC is too tough on this and on Contraception but that is your right although you don’t have to push it down everyone’s throat!
I personally understand where you are coming from but as I have explained in the thou shalt not Murder blogs, it could come down to Conscience? when the examples given in support of Abortion are not conscience issues…

As I have said, ‘I praise God I have not had to make the choice’. And if I had I agree it would have been difficult to take the Abortion route!

Question for you. Does the baby’s life come before the Mother’s in Childbirth in the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church?

Shalom, May God bless all here. Michael.

 

[greggy53]

To Brother2:

Catholics are “down” on the SDA because the entire premise of your church is built upon the belief that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, and anti-christ. I have been to your website, and listened at length to the absurd, and undocumented accusations that your false teachers spew there. If the Catholic Church were to disapear off the face of the earth tomorrow you guys would be standing around with your hands in you pockets. It seems your sole purpose in life is to bash the one true Chruch of Christ.

 

[johnshark]

Seem to me that the Roman Catholics who write in this Forum are very down on anything to do with the Seventh-day Adventist Church? I assume there are many Roman Catholics who are not writing on this Forum are not so down on us, because ***I have met lots of Roman Catholics and they and I have got on very well!! There’s some who have even converted and been baptized into the Seventh-day Adventist Church and been very happy!!

---

Our interpretation of Scripture is not to be offensive to Roman Catholics, it just happens to be what we (and most Protestants until not so long ago) believe is the true interpretation of Scripture…and no harm intended towards Roman Catholics or even Popes…anyone living up to the light that they have is accepted by God, whether Roman Catholic or Seventh-day Adventist!! Granted there are a small number of Adventists might not agree with me, but i would hope that the majority do agree with me.

In regard to Abortion it could be that the RCC is too tough on this and on Contraception but that is your right although you don’t have to push it down everyone’s throat!
I personally understand where you are coming from but as I have explained in the thou shalt not Murder blogs, it could come down to Conscience? when the examples given in support of Abortion are not conscience issues…
***Does the baby’s life come before the Mother’s in Childbirth in the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church?

---

all life is equally precious in Gods eye’s thats why he says “thou shall not kill”
i dont think that we are being mean to you i think we are asking you to defend your denomination. if you think you’re being attacked maybe it’s your conscious bothering you about some of the beliefs of the sda church. and as for the catholics that convert, there are more sda converts to the Catholic church here in the us then the other way around the sda church is losing people left and right here. i get outlook and the adventist review and they are always complaining about the lose of people

 

[Des]

Seem to me that the Roman Catholics who write in this Forum are very down on anything to do with the Seventh-day Adventist Church? I assume there are many Roman Catholics who are not writing on this Forum are not so down on us, because I have met lots of Roman Catholics and they and I have got on very well!!

Brother2. It’s how you come across when you first came in here. You’re a guest on this forum since it is a Catholic forum and you aren’t, then you seem to give this charitable appearance and put our doctrines down in the same breath without ‘attempting’ to learn why we believe such things. That is the wrong way to go about it in my opinion and will make anyone defensive.
Example: You say our doctrines are in error using your own fallible interpretation and then saying peace be with you and God Bless. We’d reply why we believe this and you’d skip it and move on to another seemingly attack.
If you want to ‘try’ and have peace then maybe don’t throw your beliefs at us like they’re Dogma. Most of us already know what the SDA believes regarding soul sleep and the Sabbath so you’re not teaching us anything new.

And when you meet these ‘Catholics’ in person are you telling them that the Pope is the Anti-Christ? If so, I highly doubt they would just smile at you and say nothing. And if they did have an answer for you, would you ignore their points like you do here or discuss them rationally?
Again, it’s how you came onto this site that in my opinion, seemed to have an aggressive style with the appearance of a lamb. If you’re going to say on here we are wrong, then discuss it with us and listen to our points instead of replying with a “Well I believe you’re wrong and that’s that” hogwash.

There’s some who have even converted and been baptized into the Seventh-day Adventist Church and been very happy!!

It’s been my experience, that most Catholics who convert to other faiths were either poorly catechized or poor Catholics to begin with. Reverse that roll and we see ex protestants who knew alot about their previous faith and now are deeply knowledgeable about what the Church teaches. So when it’s all said and done, we lose poor Catholics and gain good faithful ones which makes for a stronger Church.

 

[Brother2]

Hello Johnshark good to see you back! Good answer brother! I still feel some of you fellows have been too hard, which made me come back in the same spirit…when I did not intend to.

All life is sacred, True, but what about the bad old days of the Roman Catholic Church, with all respect and no offence to modern day Catholics, it is probably true that the Papacy in the dark ages probably had killed more than Hitler regime did to the Jews? Surely some Protestants did the same but Rome, pagan and papal were hard acts to follow.

I cannot speak for the Adventist Church in America, though if you ever watch, 3 ABN or the Hope Channel they come over as very Christian, though tending to major on the Prophecies which annoy you johnshark…and I must admit it can be too much, yes people have to be warned about the future but there are much more important things than the Papal Prophecies and the Sabbath, suppose they are the distinctive differences between us and other Christians but we don’t need to HAMMER IT OUT all the time!!

My conscience is clear though on my beliefs, but then I regularly go to confession…albeit in my own bedroom…

I agree we should be concentrating on the Salvation that is available through the Lord Jesus Christ and then the good works that result and to be fair at least in Europe we do major on the most important parts of the Gospel. And much of the time in the States too.

So johnmark glad to see you back and thanks for your good answers.

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.

 

[johnshark]

It’s been my experience, that most Catholics who convert to other faiths were either poorly catechized or poor Catholics to begin with. Reverse that roll and we see ex protestants who knew alot about their previous faith and now are deeply knowledgeable about what the Church teaches. So when it’s all said and done, we lose poor Catholics and gain good faithful ones which makes for a stronger Church.

i was sda from the age of 6-7 when my mom converted after my dad died to the age of 35 altho nominaly from 18 on when i joined the army. i also was educated in sda schools from 3-4th grade till i quit during 11 grade. so i have a fairly good idea of what the sda church is about… i joined the Catholic church at the easter vigil of 06.

 

[Brother2]

Brother2. It’s how you come across when you first came in here. You’re a guest on this forum since it is a Catholic forum and you aren’t, then you seem to give this charitable appearance and put our doctrines down in the same breath without ‘attempting’ to learn why we believe such things. That is the wrong way to go about it in my opinion and will make anyone defensive.
Example: You say our doctrines are in error using your own fallible interpretation and then saying peace be with you and God Bless. We’d reply why we believe this and you’d skip it and move on to another seemingly attack.
If you want to ‘try’ and have peace then maybe don’t throw your beliefs at us like they’re Dogma. Most of us already know what the SDA believes regarding soul sleep and the Sabbath so you’re not teaching us anything new.

And when you meet these ‘Catholics’ in person are you telling them that the Pope is the Anti-Christ? If so, I highly doubt they would just smile at you and say nothing. And if they did have an answer for you, would you ignore their points like you do here or discuss them rationally?
Again, it’s how you came onto this site that in my opinion, seemed to have an aggressive style with the appearance of a lamb. If you’re going to say on here we are wrong, then discuss it with us and listen to our points instead of replying with a “Well I believe you’re wrong and that’s that” hogwash.

It’s been my experience, that most Catholics who convert to other faiths were either poorly catechized or poor Catholics to begin with. Reverse that roll and we see ex protestants who knew alot about their previous faith and now are deeply knowledgeable about what the Church teaches. So when it’s all said and done, we lose poor Catholics and gain good faithful ones which makes for a stronger Church.

Thanks for that Des. Actually I tried to be kind when I first came onto the site if you look back, but there were some of your fellows who came down hard, so I responded in Kind, but initially I did say, 'I know you know what I believe so I will not repeat it '.

Obviously I would not come straight out with our distinctive beliefs when I first meet a Catholic, we start with what we agree on and if they want to know more we, as gently as possible, come in with the other stuff. We find over here that Catholics convert easier than Protestants…

I have tended not to be a Bible ‘basher’ and concentrate on conversation but I can get into Scripture if you wish. But then again, you have probably heard it all before anyway so why waste my energy and bore you??

As to the Truth of our Distinctive beliefs, as I have said before, only time and tide will tell, and if we are all still in the land of the living it will be interesting…!!

History often repeats itself and The Roman Catholic Church in history has combined with the State to Persecute…and we simply believe it will happen again. After the ‘deadly wound’ in 1798 when the Pope was taken prisoner, then he got his power back in the last century and has built up his power base extremely well!!

So, and I always mean it friends…Shalom, may God bless all here. Michael.

 

[Brother2]

i was sda from the age of 6-7 when my mom converted after my dad died to the age of 35 altho nominaly from 18 on when i joined the army. i also was educated in sda schools from 3-4th grade till i quit during 11 grade. so i have a fairly good idea of what the sda church is about… i joined the Catholic church at the easter vigil of 06.

OK johnshark thanks for you ‘testimony’ and I uphold you right to follow you Conscience as you did, and I respect you as a Roman Catholic Christian.

So as I said earlier, no point me Bible ‘bashing’ all the verses that reveal my own beliefs because you have heard it all before and have rejected it, as is you Right.

All I can say for myself is I understand what you all say about Why you believe as you do and why the Catholic Church practices as it does, but I have to say, although I respect you for your beliefs, it comes over to me as ‘spin’ like they do in politics to make things appear in a good light…

When I read the history of the Roman Catholic Church well Wow, Hitler had nothing on pagan and papal Rome…and it will probably happen again…

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.

 

[greggy53]

All life is sacred, True, but what about the bad old days of the Roman Catholic Church, with all respect and no offence to modern day Catholics,*** it is probably true that the Papacy in the dark ages probably had killed more than Hitler regime did to the Jews?*** Surely some Protestants did the same but Rome, pagan and papal were hard acts to follow.

Where is your evidence for this ?? I’l bet you don’t have a clue. You are simply parroting the same old unsubstantiated garbage that someone fed to you. (Probably someone like Doug Batchelor)

I have an aquaintance who made the same general accusations, but when I asked him to back it up with specifics and evidence all I got was silence…Not to reply is to reply.

 

[johnshark]

Hello Johnshark good to see you back! Good answer brother! I still feel some of you fellows have been too hard, which made me come back in the same spirit…when I did not intend to.

All life is sacred, True, but what about the bad old days of the Roman Catholic Church, with all respect and no offence to modern day Catholics, it is probably true that the Papacy in the dark ages probably had killed more than Hitler regime did to the Jews? Surely some Protestants did the same but Rome, pagan and papal were hard acts to follow.

I cannot speak for the Adventist Church in America, though if you ever watch, 3 ABN or the Hope Channel they come over as very Christian, though tending to major on the Prophecies which annoy you johnshark…and I must admit it can be too much, yes people have to be warned about the future but there are much more important things than the Papal Prophecies and the Sabbath, suppose they are the distinctive differences between us and other Christians but we don’t need to HAMMER IT OUT all the time!!

My conscience is clear though on my beliefs, but then I regularly go to confession…albeit in my own bedroom…

I agree we should be concentrating on the Salvation that is available through the Lord Jesus Christ and then the good works that result and to be fair at least in Europe we do major on the most important parts of the Gospel. And much of the time in the States too.

So johnmark glad to see you back and thanks for your good answers.

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.

you must be an elder in your church then by listening to your last post. if you think the Catholic church killed more people than hitler your reading the wrong books. google says that the population of europe during the dark ages was 22.5 million people. hitler killed 6.5 million jews. 6.5 million is 37% of 22.5 million if my sda school math is correct. so your telling me that the pope killed more than 37% of the population of europe?

Matthew 16:19
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you prohibit on earth will have been prohibited in heaven, and whatever you permit on earth will have been permitted in heaven.
2 Corinthians 5:18-20
18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

as far as confession in your bedroom the bible says differently.

and the 3abn and hope channels are good fun to watch especially with pastor loumincang of the show house calls who once said he didnt want to go to heaven if his family and friend couldnt be there.

 

[Brother2]

To Brother2:

Catholics are “down” on the SDA because the entire premise of your church is built upon the belief that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, and anti-christ. I have been to your website, and listened at length to the absurd, and undocumented accusations that your false teachers spew there. If the Catholic Church were to disapear off the face of the earth tomorrow you guys would be standing around with your hands in you pockets. It seems your sole purpose in life is to bash the one true Chruch of Christ.

Hello greggy53. Is that you age? I’m near the same age. I’m sorry you feel that way but actually just like the original protestants we don’t hate the RCC, we actually love you with Christian love…though I agree with you it can be hard to listen too when one’s Church is ‘attacked’. We happen to be 2 ‘book ends’ if you like, your Church at one end of the shelf and mine at the other and both Churches get equal attention in the ‘attacking’ mode.

The ‘entire premise’ is a bit hard now, our main message is one of Salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ and to simply preach the Bible as we see it. We would not be ‘happy’ if the Roman Catholic Church disapeared off the face of the earth, to try and jest, it would spoil our ‘thunder’…

Adventists get bashed all the time but as I said before, we believe we have the message of Scripture to tell the world, to call God’s People out of the Apostate Church…but at the same time we respect and love the members of the Roman Catholic Church.

I’m sorry that you see it as ‘bashing’, and I apologize for where our preachers are too hard on you. Much of it is history written in the history books and is well known, but obviously you don’t like to hear it thrown up all the time.

So brother greggy I say what I mean, I love and respect you as a fellow Christian, its just I believe we have a message to preach, and I am really sorry that it hurts you.

Shalom. May ~God bless all here. Michael.

 

[Brother2]

you must be an elder in your church then by listening to your last post. if you think the Catholic church killed more people than hitler your reading the wrong books. google says that the population of europe during the dark ages was 22.5 million people. hitler killed 6.5 million jews. 6.5 million is 37% of 22.5 million if my sda school math is correct. so your telling me that the pope killed more than 37% of the population of europe?

Matthew 16:19
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you prohibit on earth will have been prohibited in heaven, and whatever you permit on earth will have been permitted in heaven.
2 Corinthians 5:18-20
18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

as far as confession in your bedroom the bible says differently.

and the 3abn and hope channels are good fun to watch especially with pastor loumincang of the show house calls who once said he didnt want to go to heaven if his family and friend couldnt be there.

OK johnshark i hear you loud and clear. Of course the Persecution went on for hundreds of years…you have heard of the Crusades I suppose against protestants and also members of Islam all those years ago. So it was not all under one population, you must be aware it carried on over many generations.

You verses all good I agree with them…Jesus also says,‘go into thy closet and close the door and pray’, Bible talks of confessing our sins before the Father in heaven, Lord Jesus Christ being our Advocate with the Father.

As for quoting John Lomacin.(I can’t spell either) its very easy to take words out of context…but isn’t he a good singer?? I’m Welsh and not a bad singer but he is good??

The Christian Church has power to disfellowship or excomunicate in your case, to discipline its members, but then surely we try and ‘love’ them back in to the Church.

Sorry, but the Pope does not have the keys of heaven and hell, Lord Jesus Christ has them.

Listen what else can we talk about brother? Maybe like News broadcasts on tv and newspaper good news is no news huh? Would we be happy agreeing with each other all the time??

We can agree on the glory of Rome and the Vatican, have you been, you must try it is really an experience bro. And we can agree on Missions yeah, helping those poor people hurt in earthquakes, war, disaster, not enough to eat, no homes, not even clean water? I thinks you have the biggest Aid Agency and we come second to you, you will have heard of ADRA, of course you have!!

So we can agree on the love of God toward us sinners, and Join with St Paul in saying, in whom I am chief…

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.

 

[Brother2]

Where is your evidence for this ?? I’l bet you don’t have a clue. You are simply parroting the same old unsubstantiated garbage that someone fed to you. (Probably someone like Doug Batchelor)

I have an aquaintance who made the same general accusations, but when I asked him to back it up with specifics and evidence all I got was silence…Not to reply is to reply.

Hi Bro…Foxes Book of Martys would be a good place to start and i remember lots of historical programmes on tv talking of the ‘christian crusades’ though actually it was the papal crusades. Plenty of blood in those history books bro, glad I wasn’t alive then…

Sorry to say this and I mean that, Hitler tried to hide the evidence…so did the church fathers in that time…

But enough! Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael

PS I am not an Elder, just an ordinary Seventh-day Adventist Christian.

 

[johnshark]

OK johnshark i hear you loud and clear. Of course the Persecution went on for hundreds of years…you have heard of the Crusades I suppose against protestants and also members of Islam all those years ago. So it was not all under one population, you must be aware it carried on over many generations.
Sorry, but the Pope does not have the keys of heaven and hell, Lord Jesus Christ has them.

when you say persecution i assume you mean inquisition.
here is a pretty good explanation of the inquisition en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Inquisition#Legacy

and as far as the crusades go the crusades were to defend the Catholic pilgrims who were being attacked by robbers and muslims while on their way to shrines in the holy land.

and if the pope doesnt have the keys to heaven and EARTH not hell,why does the bible say he does?
Matt 16:19 “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." NIV

 

[johnshark]

Hi Bro…Foxes Book of Martys would be a good place to start and i remember lots of historical programmes on tv talking of the ‘christian crusades’ though actually it was the papal crusades. Plenty of blood in those history books bro, glad I wasn’t alive then…

Sorry to say this and I mean that, Hitler tried to hide the evidence…so did the church fathers in that time…

But enough! Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael

PS I am not an Elder, just an ordinary Seventh-day Adventist Christian.

all history has blood running thru is American,English,Irish,Welsh,Russian all.

Hitler tried to hide the evidence…so did the church fathers in that time…

this is a silly comment. what history was hitler trying to hide?

and as far as programs on tv this is no surprise from a anticatholic country/empire

 

[pipper]

Been taking a breather and having a condition that takes my energy away I needed a break…and been reading all the ‘blogs’ as I call them.

Seem to me that the Roman Catholics who write in this Forum are very down on anything to do with the Seventh-day Adventist Church? I assume there are many Roman Catholics who are not writing on this Forum are not so down on us, because I have met lots of Roman Catholics and they and I have got on very well!! There’s some who have even converted and been baptized into the Seventh-day Adventist Church and been very happy!!

Shalom, May God bless all here. Michael.

You have met many Catholics and have gotten along with them? It is possible when you are discussing non-religious topics, but I will wager those Catholics are unaware of your churche’s dogma that we are the “beast”, the “whore of Babylon” and the church who “presumes to change time”, and are unaware of the whoppers told about “history” in Ellens plaigarised book the Great Controversy.

And I am very certain that your converts are delighted to hate themselves (SDA hates Catholics and they are-were Catholics), to give up such “unclean” yummy foods like Ham, Lobster and shrimp.
I bet they are delighted to give up all jewelry as well.

 

[placido]

Seem to me that the Roman Catholics who write in this Forum are very down on anything to do with the Seventh-day Adventist Church? I assume there are many Roman Catholics who are not writing on this Forum are not so down on us, because I have met lots of Roman Catholics and they and I have got on very well!! There’s some who have even converted and been baptized into the Seventh-day Adventist Church and been very happy!! .

What you are saying is that those Catholics who stand up and defend their beliefs are “down”, while those who convert to SDAism are nice and happy people. That, Brother2, is anti-Catholic bigotry.

Our interpretation of Scripture is not to be offensive to Roman Catholics, it just happens to be what we (and most Protestants until not so long ago) believe is the true interpretation of Scripture… .

You believe your interpretation is the true interpretation of Scripture. In a like manner, Catholic believe their interpretation is the true interpretation of Scripture. What then?

… and no harm intended towards Roman Catholics or even Popes…anyone living up to the light that they have is accepted by God, whether Roman Catholic or Seventh-day Adventist!! Granted there are a small number of Adventists might not agree with me, but i would hope that the majority do agree with me.

Brother2, I thought you already know that the truth is not determined by majority vote.

In regard to Abortion it could be that the RCC is too tough on this and on Contraception but that is your right although you don’t have to push it down everyone’s throat! I personally understand where you are coming from but as I have explained in the thou shalt not Murder blogs, it could come down to Conscience? when the examples given in support of Abortion are not conscience issues… .

On the question of murder (of babies) SDAs allow every one to follow his/her own conscience, but when it comes to the Sabbath it is pushed “down everyone’s throat”. That is hypocrisy !!!

placido