Question for all protestants

[dronald]

But see lets not get side tracked on this. Lets say I go to this Church, what Protestant has the right to tell me that this Church is wrong. See what I am asking?

One cannot prove from Scripture that Homosexuality is okay. What possible passages could they be quoting?

 

[rinnie]

1 corin 11:5But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head–it is the same as having her head shaved.

6For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

You see, sometimes things were said for a specific period of time, or do you believe women must still cover their heads?

I know, I’m agreeing with you.

Sometimes more then their heads . Did I say that!

Anyway the context of the scripture is not the veil,to make it short and sweet it show submission to the will of order of God. Read it again, I think you will see it now.

It has nothing to do with women in the Priesthood.

 

[rinnie]

One cannot prove from Scripture that Homosexuality is okay. What possible passages could they be quoting?

Their own version. The way they can. They will tell you, you have no authority to judge them. And they believe God accepts all love.

Hey now don’t attack me here, I didn’t say I agree. But just for the sake of arguing the Trinity isn’t in the bible either. And we proved it. But again not the point.

If they say to you the bible tells them its okay, thats how they see it, who corrects them, And has the right to?

We can’t get sidetracked on what differences the Protestants disasgree with eachother on. We will be here until the end of time.

Again what Protestant has the authority to correct another and how?

 

[rinnie]

The best thing we can do is really just what we are doing here…discussing.

One area that I have talked with protestants about is the biblical support for a visible authoritative universal church. This can help them to see that, while there is certainly room for variation, there are things where "agree to disagree’ just doesn’t work - and God gave us a way to resolve these matters. - - - and it is recorded in Scripture.

But - as you say - this is fodder for another thread.

Peace
James

Spot on James!!!

 

[Traverse]

Houston we have a problem. According to the Church teaching let me show you of course, I don’t see it.

But let me give you mine against women Priest then you give me yours for woman Priest. Fare enough?

In Eph 5:32 According to Christ Woman are equal but have different functions. Priesthood is a Male Function.

Christ even goes on to say that the Church is the bride and he is the Bride GROOM!

Now just saying.

Now your turn! SHow me where Christ contradicts this in the bible!

I think you misunderstood me. I’m not for women priests. So hey, we agree! YEAH!

 

[rinnie]

One cannot prove from Scripture that Homosexuality is okay. What possible passages could they be quoting?

WHo said there is and who says all Churchs have to obey the word of God? I mean come on they are marrying them. I can show you scripture that states that it indeed goes against the word of God. Did not stop many Protestant Churchs and many to come.

Again once more what Protestant Church has the right to tell the other Protestant Church that they cannot do it.

 

[dronald]

Sometimes more then their heads . Did I say that!

Anyway the context of the scripture is not the veil,to make it short and sweet it show submission to the will of order of God. Read it again, I think you will see it now.

It has nothing to do with women in the Priesthood.

I disagree, it was modest for a woman to cover her head and that’s what Paul is saying.

Also
1corin 14:34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.

35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

I think women are no longer looked at as a shame to speak up in Church; do you believe it’s shameful for a woman to speak in Church still?

When I went to a Catholic service last month a woman was reading and singing for the Church.

 

[dronald]

WHo said there is and who says all Churchs have to obey the word of God? I mean come on they are marrying them. I can show you scripture that states that it indeed goes against the word of God. Did not stop many Protestant Churchs and many to come.

Again once more what Protestant Church has the right to tell the other Protestant Church that they cannot do it.

Any Protestant Church that can claim Scripture doesn’t matter is immediately in the wrong.

 

[Atheling]

WHo said there is and who says all Churchs have to obey the word of God? I mean come on they are marrying them. I can show you scripture that states that it indeed goes against the word of God. Did not stop many Protestant Churchs and many to come.

Again once more what Protestant Church has the right to tell the other Protestant Church that they cannot do it.

Some churches ignore or (willfully or otherwise) misinterpret scripture. Whatever the agenda informing those decisions may be, they’re free to do it, and those outside of the religion can do little save for speak out against it. It’s not a matter of having a “right” to call them out.

 

[chero23]

Some churches ignore or (willfully or otherwise) misinterpret scripture. Whatever the agenda informing those decisions may be, they’re free to do it, and those outside of the religion can do little save for speak out against it. It’s not a matter of having a “right” to call them out.

Unfortunately Protestant Churches, yes all of them, don’t get the whole scripture and do what the Bible says. From morality like abortion, contraception, or homosexuality, or the Eucharist, the Blessed Mother, the importance of marriage, baptism. Jesus made it clear that he wanted us united, but we as Christians haven’t done that.

 

[dronald]

Some churches ignore or (willfully or otherwise) misinterpret scripture. Whatever the agenda informing those decisions may be, they’re free to do it, and those outside of the religion can do little save for speak out against it. It’s not a matter of having a “right” to call them out.

This is what many Churches in Canada are doing, and they’re failing here. Unfortunately if you’re Canadian you’re looked at as a very bad person if you don’t support gay marriage. The adaptation is not because of their interpretation, but rather because they want to be more inclusive and liberal. It’s a joke.

 

[chero23]

This is what many Churches in Canada are doing, and they’re failing here. Unfortunately if you’re Canadian you’re looked at as a very bad person if you don’t support gay marriage. The adaptation is not because of their interpretation, but rather because they want to be more inclusive and liberal. It’s a joke.

Its that for protestant Churches only?

 

[dronald]

Unfortunately Protestant Churches, yes all of them, don’t get the whole scripture and do what the Bible says. From morality like abortion, contraception, or homosexuality, or the Eucharist, the Blessed Mother, the importance of marriage, baptism. Jesus made it clear that he wanted us united, but we as Christians haven’t done that.

I knew that this topic was really about Catholicism!

Joking aside, when I brought up Catholics I was told I’m off topic.

 

[StraitGateSheep]

Hello good people,

I am not truly a Protestant but just a relentless seeker of truth from the God of truth.

There are disagreements everywhere
and any sound Judgment in the matter is taken like criticism and divisiveness.

From the following Scriptures we can understand the reasons for the different ‘opinions.’
God never encouraged personal opinions but respect and obedience to his Ministers.

1 Cor.2
[12] Now we (Apostles) have not received
the spirit (of unbelief and disobedience) of the world
but the Spirit of God >> (with enablement)
so that we might know the things that are freely given to us of/ by God.
[13] Which things also we speak (about, but)
not in (normal) words that man’s (earthly) wisdom teaches,
but that (spiritual words) which the Holy Ghost teaches;
comparing spiritual (non literal) things with spiritual. >> (invisible)
[14] But the, (non spiritual) natural man,
does not receive the things, (the realizations), of/ from the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness to him:
neither can he know about them because
they are spiritually discerned.>> (outside of his reach)

Conclusion: Everyone needs the genuine Gift of the Spirit of God, from God, through coming to Jesus.
This Spirit raised Jesus from the dead and is not passive.

Eph.4
[1] I (Paul) therefore, the prisoner of the LORD, >> (the incarnated God of Israel)
beseech you (converts)
hat you walk worthy of the vocation >> (of faith, love and good deeds)
wherewith you are called, (by God)
[2] With all lowliness
and meekness, >> (submissiveness to the Doctrine from Christ and the Apostles)
with longsuffering,
forbearing one another, in love;
[3] Endeavoring to keep the unity of/ from the Spirit in the bond of peace.
[4] There is ONE body,
and ONE Spirit, (of God)
even as ye are called in ONE hope of your calling; (immortality/ everlasting Salvation)
[5] ONE >> (the Mighty God of Israel who was sent from heaven),
ONE faith, >> (in BOTH the Father and the Son)
ONE baptism, >> (according to God’s Doctrine)
[6] ONE God and Father of all, who is above all,
and through all, and in you all.

Conclusion: God has simplified things. Debating what God has said is ok,
but submission to God in order to be exalted, is the wisdom of the just.
All debates end in submission to God’s Ministers.
Abraham , our Father, submitted and was on the verge of offering his only son and heir to his property.

1 Cor.1
[10] Now I (Paul) beseech you, brethren, (converts)
by the name of our LORD
Jesus Christ, >> (the creator, former and maker of Israel)
that everyone speak the same (ONE) thing,
and that there be no divisions (but be ONE) among you;
but that you be perfectly joined together (as ONE),
in the same (ONE) mind
and in the same (ONE) Judgment. (= decision on GOD’s Doctrine, to start)

Christians are likeminded like God and his Son,
the Apostles their converts, the three forefathers and the Prophets and David who were before them.

Jesus Our Savior and God Our Father, through the work of the Spirit, and obedience to the Word/ the Doctrine
produces the joyful and acceptable children who enjoy great joy from the Spirit.

The Gentiles might emerge looking the worst because we have not learnt from the ‘Spiritual History.’
‘If you don’t know your ‘Spiritual’ History then you’re doomed to repeat it:’ someone said.
Us Gentiles have not yet learnt the Wisdom of the just, that is in submission to God’s ministers.
God never said anything in vain.
The Apostles repeated God’s Words.

Christian objective was to live to please Christ like Christ lived to please God.

It is not about what people think about us but what God knows about us.

My best hope for all,

 

[pismopal]

Catholics have a Church to guide them with a Bible that supports it. Non Catholic Christian gatherings have an abridged Bible and everyone who owns one is free to interpret what the Bible means to them. How subjective is that?

 

[dronald]

Its that for protestant Churches only?

I would assume so. The CC and Orthodox Churches have said no to homosexual marriage and most of the large Protestant ones agree. So it should stand to reason that only Protestant Churches are doing this.

 

[Randy_Carson]

That’s a fair answer and you are correct. The reason I bring Catholicism into it is that I don’t understand why Protestants can be compared to each other and yet Catholics can’t. Either way the answer eventually ends up with, “Well, we have Scripture and we haven’t made an infallible proclamation so we can assume but can’t say for sure”

I would say that most Protestant Churches believe that a baby who dies before Baptism will still go to Heaven. I know this is what my Church teaches and I believe all Evangelical Churches teach the same. We’ll quote passages like:

Matthew 19:14Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

Matthew 18:3And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Protestants could say, “Well we can’t say for sure because we’re not God and we can’t judge” but that comes across as a much more insensitive answer to a sincere inquirer. All such an answer does is leave the possibility of original sin leaving them damned to hell for all of eternity or in some type of limbo through no fault of their own. I think Catholics and Protestants equally agree that this is unlikely; but nothing has been defined.

I do believe it makes sense that a baby who dies without being able to choose Baptism because they either didn’t have time, or didn’t understand it will go to Heaven. It makes sense, but sure I can’t judge. The Catholic response is similar, “We can’t judge and we leave it up to God.” So what’s the difference?

The argument for which the foundation is being laid by the OP is that Protestants (and, yes, I am aware of the challenges of trying herd that group of cats) generally claim to go by the Bible alone and that they are led by the Spirit into all truth, etc.

Then they arrive at conflicting and contradictory doctrines as a result.

This leaves them in the unenviable position that either A) Doctrine doesn’t really matter or B) conflicting and contradictory doctrines are acceptable in the Body of Christ.

 

[Atheling]

Unfortunately Protestant Churches, yes all of them, don’t get the whole scripture and do what the Bible says. From morality like abortion, contraception, or homosexuality, or the Eucharist, the Blessed Mother, the importance of marriage, baptism. Jesus made it clear that he wanted us united, but we as Christians haven’t done that.

Politics informs modern heresies seen in every one of the points you raised save for the two I highlighted. As it concerns the Eucharist, it depends on your interpretation of symbolism vs. presence, and as for Mary, that’s a firm no. Even a few decades ago, Catholics and Protestants were essentially as one on the other subjects, until societal progressivism started to corrupt the latter. That said, I’m seeing plenty of pro-abortion/contraception/homosexuality rhetoric out of grassroots Catholics these days, which the Church is doing very little to combat, so Protestants don’t have a monopoly on defying scripture in that sense.

This is what many Churches in Canada are doing, and they’re failing here. Unfortunately if you’re Canadian you’re looked at as a very bad person if you don’t support gay marriage. The adaptation is not because of their interpretation, but rather because they want to be more inclusive and liberal. It’s a joke.

Exactly, I get the idea that many Protestant churches in this country think they’ll attract congregants and sympathy by appearing as the “reasonable”, “tolerant” alternative to the more dogmatic Catholic Church in the milieu of Canadian liberalism. Consider the monstrosity that is the United Church, for example.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Catholics don’t differ on answers as well?

 

[chero23]

I knew that this topic was really about Catholicism!

Joking aside, when I brought up Catholics I was told I’m off topic.

It has to be. Earlier you said that Catholics didn’t understand the whole infant baptism concept. I responded to your post by saying, how can you sir, Say that you know the answer when the Church has 2,000 yrs of history, tradition, and writings of baptizing infants.
W/o going to far, the Early Church Fathers who were taught and trained by the Apostles, with what they taught, preached and wrote down, they have the same beliefs and teachings of the Catholic Church. Is that simple, that is the reason why a lot of ppl who are true to God’s word are becoming Catholic, b/c when they see that the Catholic Church has been around for 2,000 yrs and the Early Church Fathers support the Catholic Church then you really have no other option but to come into the Church that Jesus established.