Question for Anglicans

  • Thread starter Thread starter BernadetteM
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

BernadetteM

Guest
Although I haven’t seen Anglicans/Episcopalians posting unkind or uncharitable posts on CAF against Anglicans who are going to accept Pope Benedict’s offer of an Apostolic Constitution, I have been on one website where there are hundreds of very nasty remarks made about Anglicans who are going to Rome.

They seem more upset that the Catholic Church believes that the Pope sits in the Chair of Peter and is the Shepard over the whole Church.

The posters make some pretty bad remarks about specific individuals, former Anglican priests that have left to become Catholic priests.

My question since none of the Anglican/Episcopalians post such remarks here is why do they think that these Anglicans can’t accept that some of their own choose to go to Rome. I feel that if your happy and spiriturally growing in the Anglican churches why not be glad for those who leave.

I understand that some Catholics on CAF would rather a Catholic didn’t leave the Church, but they usually post encouragement to the person to really study the Faith and what they will lose if they leave. They don’t in general rake the person leaving over the coals and make fun of them.

I don’t care whether a person chooses to become Catholic or leave I would never belilttle them. I told them on a post that I felt shame as a former Anglican to read such venom.

This is not the first Anglican website where I have seen this type of behavior. I hold Anglicans in high regard and am just surprised at the reaction and wanted some (name removed by moderator)ut as to why they are so hostile. Coming from the Episcopal church myself I never felt this type of emotion towards others who left to become Catholic, Orthodox or another denomination. I am speaking about when I was still an Episcopalian.

Thanks for any ideas. I am just glad to be here on CAF where most people are kind, they might disagree, but aren’t so angry about their differences.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
Beats me. As I have said, if an Anglican can affirm the RC particulars, that’s where he should be. That’s true for anyone, for that matter.

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus
BernadetteM said:
Although I haven’t seen Anglicans/Episcopalians posting unkind or uncharitable posts on CAF against Anglicans who are going to accept Pope Benedict’s offer of an Apostolic Constitution, I have been on one website where there are hundreds of very nasty remarks made about Anglicans who are going to Rome.

They seem more upset that the Catholic Church believes that the Pope sits in the Chair of Peter and is the Shepard over the whole Church.

The posters make some pretty bad remarks about specific individuals, former Anglican priests that have left to become Catholic priests.

My question since none of the Anglican/Episcopalians post such remarks here is why do they think that these Anglicans can’t accept that some of their own choose to go to Rome. I feel that if your happy and spiriturally growing in the Anglican churches why not be glad for those who leave.

I understand that some Catholics on CAF would rather a Catholic didn’t leave the Church, but they usually post encouragement to the person to really study the Faith and what they will lose if they leave. They don’t in general rake the person leaving over the coals and make fun of them.

I don’t care whether a person chooses to become Catholic or leave I would never belilttle them. I told them on a post that I felt shame as a former Anglican to read such venom.

This is not the first Anglican website where I have seen this type of behavior. I hold Anglicans in high regard and am just surprised at the reaction and wanted some (name removed by moderator)ut as to why they are so hostile. Coming from the Episcopal church myself I never felt this type of emotion towards others who left to become Catholic, Orthodox or another denomination. I am speaking about when I was still an Episcopalian.

Thanks for any ideas. I am just glad to be here on CAF where most people are kind, they might disagree, but aren’t so angry about their differences.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
Click to expand...
 
It cuts both ways. I’ve been told here on CAF that my salvation is in jeopardy if I leave Rome. I would be leaving Christ in the Eucharist. A liberal way leads to the “other place” meaning eternal damnation.
 
BernadetteM said:
Although I haven’t seen Anglicans/Episcopalians posting unkind or uncharitable posts on CAF against Anglicans who are going to accept Pope Benedict’s offer of an Apostolic Constitution, I have been on one website where there are hundreds of very nasty remarks made about Anglicans who are going to Rome.

They seem more upset that the Catholic Church believes that the Pope sits in the Chair of Peter and is the Shepard over the whole Church.

The posters make some pretty bad remarks about specific individuals, former Anglican priests that have left to become Catholic priests.

My question since none of the Anglican/Episcopalians post such remarks here is why do they think that these Anglicans can’t accept that some of their own choose to go to Rome. I feel that if your happy and spiriturally growing in the Anglican churches why not be glad for those who leave.

I understand that some Catholics on CAF would rather a Catholic didn’t leave the Church, but they usually post encouragement to the person to really study the Faith and what they will lose if they leave. They don’t in general rake the person leaving over the coals and make fun of them.

I don’t care whether a person chooses to become Catholic or leave I would never belilttle them. I told them on a post that I felt shame as a former Anglican to read such venom.

This is not the first Anglican website where I have seen this type of behavior. I hold Anglicans in high regard and am just surprised at the reaction and wanted some (name removed by moderator)ut as to why they are so hostile. Coming from the Episcopal church myself I never felt this type of emotion towards others who left to become Catholic, Orthodox or another denomination. I am speaking about when I was still an Episcopalian.

Thanks for any ideas. I am just glad to be here on CAF where most people are kind, they might disagree, but aren’t so angry about their differences.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
Click to expand...
Some of the reaction is fear. What will happen when they leave? Some that are in parishes and dioceses that are leaving for Rome and chose not to go, fear…where do I go?
What are my choices? There are about 65 Anglican groups in the States. So if you are in the TAC, very catholic, but chose not to unite with Rome and there is not another continuing Anglican parish nearby that is catholic…where do you go? To the UECNA or AEC which are not catholic and very low church in their liturgy?

Also, they take it as a personal rejection of themselves. Why is not my Anglicanism good enough for you?

Those that are thoroughly protestant in thinking and theology, as one local AMiA priest calls himself a Baptist in robes, they reject all things catholic.

Then you have those who think they are the catholic church and Rome needs to repent and join them as the one true church. And it would not hurt the Orthodox either!😃

And finally, Anglicans have been fighting each other for over 40 years. Old habits die hard.😃

Fr.Mark
ACNA
 
Remembering my reactions to Catholicism while I was an Anglican, I think Fr. Mark hits close to the … well… mark. 😉

Anglicans either consider themselves already as Catholic as one needs to be, or they consider “Catholicism” a grave error. Or both, to some extent. Anglicanism can feel rather schizophrenic sometimes. I think that’s part of its charm.
 
Only forty years?

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus
MarkBrown said:
Some of the reaction is fear. What will happen when they leave? Some that are in parishes and dioceses that are leaving for Rome and chose not to go, fear…where do I go?
What are my choices? There are about 65 Anglican groups in the States. So if you are in the TAC, very catholic, but chose not to unite with Rome and there is not another continuing Anglican parish nearby that is catholic…where do you go? To the UECNA or AEC which are not catholic and very low church in their liturgy?

Also, they take it as a personal rejection of themselves. Why is not my Anglicanism good enough for you?

Those that are thoroughly protestant in thinking and theology, as one local AMiA priest calls himself a Baptist in robes, they reject all things catholic.

Then you have those who think they are the catholic church and Rome needs to repent and join them as the one true church. And it would not hurt the Orthodox either!😃

And finally, Anglicans have been fighting each other for over 40 years. Old habits die hard.😃

Fr.Mark
ACNA
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for all your (name removed by moderator)ut. I have noticed that they did not post my response. Maybe they don’t want real criticism of their unchristian like behavior.

Reminds of fundamentalist boards who don’t allow Catholics to post.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
 
I have not seen any anti-Roman blather on other websites, but I suppose it’s best that you not name the websites you found.

Personally, I see the issue as mainly one involving the Traditional Anglican Communion, a “continuing” Anglican group that has directly petitioned the Pope to be received into the Catholic Church on a corporate basis. This group is fairly small, with about 400,000 people in the world, and I don’t know anyone in it.

What the Pope did was simply to respond to the pastoral pleas of these Traditional Anglicans. Of course, the invitation is open to all Anglicans, and some will probably accept it. I am considering it, but I am not about to become Catholic until I believe the unreservedly in the Catholic magisterium.

I have high regard for the Pope, both as a scholar and theologian and as a shepherd of souls. I think he and Cardinal Levada bungled the roll-out by blind siding the Archbishop of Canterbury, but that was a minor snafu.

I do not think that the Pope intended to offer the Catholic Church as simply a refuge for those Anglicans who do not like female priests, open attitudes toward gays, and other liberalisms that are found in Episcopal/Anglican churches. He offered the Catholic Church as the Catholic Church (with a more palatable liturgy).

We have so much to offer each other. Roman Catholics can experience the fullness of Anglican faith. 😃
 
GKC said:
Beats me. As I have said, if an Anglican can affirm the RC particulars, that’s where he should be. That’s true for anyone, for that matter.

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus
Click to expand...
And THIS is what EENS actually means.
 
I just read another post over there and now they are talking about disassociating with TAC. It appears TAC and this continuing group of Anglicans were at one time working together on the website. I thought maybe they would still post my response, but no luck. It was not an angry post either, just suggesting that they be more charitable.

At least one poster gave good advice and said “let the Anglicans go to Rome” we need to work together as Anglicans, not exact quote, but the meaning is there. I agree they need to gather their own flock and strengthen it, instead of focusing on those who have different outlooks on their faith. So I guess they will now just be talking amongst themselves, hopefully not attacking TAC, nor the Catholic Church anymore.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
Another question for Anglicans:

Fr. Dwight Longenecker made an interesting comment on the Journey Home last week or so…he stated that while Anglicans have a common form of worship (based on the Book of Common Prayer), their theology is all over the map. Conversely, while Catholics worship in many different ways, their theology is unified.

Is this a fair assessment?
 
Randy_Carson said:
Another question for Anglicans:

Fr. Dwight Longenecker made an interesting comment on the Journey Home last week or so…he stated that while Anglicans have a common form of worship (based on the Book of Common Prayer), their theology is all over the map. Conversely, while Catholics worship in many different ways, their theology is unified.

Is this a fair assessment?
Click to expand...
Not quite. Anglicans have a common form of worship that in practice is also “all over the map”, which goes nicely with our theology. Padre Longenecker was being charitable.

Remember that each national church has adopted and adapated its prayerbook over the centuries. There are some core similarities, of course, but you will find greater variety from country to country than you will, say, between English, French, Japanese and Chinese versions of the Catholic mass.

One need only look at the Diocese of Sidney, Australia to find evangelical services in Anglican churches that do not look at all Anglican, and their theology is very different.
 
BernadetteM said:
Although I haven’t seen Anglicans/Episcopalians posting unkind or uncharitable posts on CAF against Anglicans who are going to accept Pope Benedict’s offer of an Apostolic Constitution, I have been on one website where there are hundreds of very nasty remarks made about Anglicans who are going to Rome.

They seem more upset that the Catholic Church believes that the Pope sits in the Chair of Peter and is the Shepard over the whole Church.

The posters make some pretty bad remarks about specific individuals, former Anglican priests that have left to become Catholic priests.

My question since none of the Anglican/Episcopalians post such remarks here is why do they think that these Anglicans can’t accept that some of their own choose to go to Rome. I feel that if your happy and spiriturally growing in the Anglican churches why not be glad for those who leave.

I understand that some Catholics on CAF would rather a Catholic didn’t leave the Church, but they usually post encouragement to the person to really study the Faith and what they will lose if they leave. They don’t in general rake the person leaving over the coals and make fun of them.

I don’t care whether a person chooses to become Catholic or leave I would never belilttle them. I told them on a post that I felt shame as a former Anglican to read such venom.

This is not the first Anglican website where I have seen this type of behavior. I hold Anglicans in high regard and am just surprised at the reaction and wanted some (name removed by moderator)ut as to why they are so hostile. Coming from the Episcopal church myself I never felt this type of emotion towards others who left to become Catholic, Orthodox or another denomination. I am speaking about when I was still an Episcopalian.

Thanks for any ideas. I am just glad to be here on CAF where most people are kind, they might disagree, but aren’t so angry about their differences.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
Click to expand...
You seem to me to be confusing Episcopalians for the majority of Anglicans. This is surely not the case. As far as faithful Gospel believing and spreading Anglicans, there are millions upon millions in Africa and South America as well as those in North America and Europe who are carrying on traditional Anglican doctrine with no speak whatsoever of joining Rome. This would most certainly also include those in the newly formed ACNA like myself.
 
Randy_Carson said:
Another question for Anglicans:

Fr. Dwight Longenecker made an interesting comment on the Journey Home last week or so…he stated that while Anglicans have a common form of worship (based on the Book of Common Prayer), their theology is all over the map. Conversely, while Catholics worship in many different ways, their theology is unified.

Is this a fair assessment?
Click to expand...
Randy,

I read through this Thread. I want to visit the Episcopal Church in the next few weeks. I’ve been searching online for Episcopal beliefs. I have found it a bit confusing, as some of the beliefs do vary widely. Somehow, I expected them to be more united in beliefs, as Catholics are. I’m still going to visit though.

Anna

Edited to add P.S.
I asked some questions on the Thread: “Episcopal and Catholic.” No response yet. Are there any Episcopal Christians who would answer on this Thread? Would really appreciate it. Thanks.
Anna_Scott said:
I was wondering if some of you would answer this question for me:

What are the major differences in beliefs between Episcopal and Catholic Christians?


  1. *]Eucharist/Communion
    *]Baptism, i.e. Are infants baptized in Episcopal Churches? Is there a confirmation at a certain age?
    *]Salvation, i.e. Is salvation an event (as in some Protestant Churches) or a process?
    *]Relationship between Christians and the Jewish people, i.e. Replacement Theology, Dispensationalism, other?

    To the OP, if this is not consistent with the intent of this thread, please let me know and I will start a new thread.

    Edited to Add P.S. I’m not asking for extensive theological explanations–just give me a general idea.

    Thanks,
    Anna
Click to expand...
 
Justy90

From what I gather on their website they are mostly part of ACC. I have no idea what that stands for, or if it includes other countries. They mentioned India and Africa as part of their movement.

You are probably more aware of just what they stand for and are part of within the Continuing Anglican Communion. I do question why all the Anglicans who either left the C of E or the Episcopal church cannot seem to be united. When we were all part of the Anglican Communion, although we had different theological beliefs and traditions, at least we were under one roof, now they are split from what I have heard into 67 to 100 different groups. You might also have an answer for this.

My only problem with the website is the negativity and many of the remarks they make towards other Anglicans who disagree with them and of course the Catholic Church.

I don’t see that they have any stake in another group or individual who makes decisions that are not to their liking.

They never mentioned that other’s souls were in jeopardy by leaving a group of Anglicans. It appears they just don’t like it when someone doesn’t go along with their policies and beliefs.

I only wish the Anglicans, which ever group they choose to find the peace that they are seeking will be Christ filled. Bitterness does not bring you closer to the Lord.

There will never be complete unity among Christians, at least I can’t see that ever a possiblity and although of course that is what all Christians should pray for, we must never be in judgement of others and their walk with Christ.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
If I’m rehearsing the obvious, I apologize. I suspect the ACC you mention is the Anglican Catholic Church. Along with the Anglican Church in America (ACA, which is the American portion of the TAC) and the Anglican Province of Christ the King (APCK), the ACC is one of the 3 largest and oldest of the Continuing Anglican jurisdictions. With 2-3 other slightly smaller jurisdictions, these constitute the bulk of the Continuum. As I have said before, around 10-12 groups cover almost all the significant Continuing movement.

Here’s a link to the ACC:

anglicancatholic.org/

As I’ve also mentioned before, there are 3 primary reasons why the Continuum is so fractured: personalities of the leaders, an attempt to “purify” the essence of Anglicanism (no re-inventing the Elizabethan Compromise) and Purple Passion: too many who want to be bishops. Progress toward some form of unity is slow, and inconsistent.

I recommend DIVIDED WE STAND/Douglas Bess, for some better understanding.

GKC
BernadetteM said:
Justy90

From what I gather on their website they are mostly part of ACC. I have no idea what that stands for, or if it includes other countries. They mentioned India and Africa as part of their movement.

You are probably more aware of just what they stand for and are part of within the Continuing Anglican Communion. I do question why all the Anglicans who either left the C of E or the Episcopal church cannot seem to be united. When we were all part of the Anglican Communion, although we had different theological beliefs and traditions, at least we were under one roof, now they are split from what I have heard into 67 to 100 different groups. You might also have an answer for this.

My only problem with the website is the negativity and many of the remarks they make towards other Anglicans who disagree with them and of course the Catholic Church.

I don’t see that they have any stake in another group or individual who makes decisions that are not to their liking.

They never mentioned that other’s souls were in jeopardy by leaving a group of Anglicans. It appears they just don’t like it when someone doesn’t go along with their policies and beliefs.

I only wish the Anglicans, which ever group they choose to find the peace that they are seeking will be Christ filled. Bitterness does not bring you closer to the Lord.

There will never be complete unity among Christians, at least I can’t see that ever a possiblity and although of course that is what all Christians should pray for, we must never be in judgement of others and their walk with Christ.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
Click to expand...
 
Anglicans are all over the map, but they’re honest about it. I think cafeteria Catholicism with a pick and choose version is far more popular than orthodox Catholicism. In my diocese there are many folks at confession, many people I’ve talked to who use NFP and pray the rosary, follow the magisterial teachings, etc. But there are far more folks who have divorced and remarried, who are “shacking up,” who have premarital sex, who miss Mass all the time, who show up only at major holidays, who don’t know jack squat about the catechism or the faith at all, who don’t sing, and who haven’t a clue about sacramental theology. I myself wasn’t even taught about the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist as a child at CCD. I didn’t even know it until I was a teen and that opened my eyes to sacramental life. Many Catholics voted for Obama, vote pro-choice, and are for stem cell research or gay rights, you name it. Catholics are all over the map. The Father Corapi Catholics are dwarfed by the cafeteria folks.

Anglicans are just more honest, really, about their denomination. It’s like a crazy aunt, as I’ve said before, who is drunk, doped-up, screams and yells, and wears her underwear outside her dress with her hair desheveled running to and fro…Both churches have that crazy lady amongst them. The Anglicans let crazy aunt run around and rant and rave sounding like Ron Wood from the Rolling Stones while the Catholics hide auntie in the basement.
Randy_Carson said:
Another question for Anglicans:

Fr. Dwight Longenecker made an interesting comment on the Journey Home last week or so…he stated that while Anglicans have a common form of worship (based on the Book of Common Prayer), their theology is all over the map. Conversely, while Catholics worship in many different ways, their theology is unified.

Is this a fair assessment?
Click to expand...
 
I could re-write the cliche: too many episkopoi and not enough presbyteroi! Being associated with ACNA is not exactly a unifying force either…that group is really in disarray! I hear Iker is threatening to bail if ole’ Duncan lays hands on any more hairspray!
GKC said:
If I’m rehearsing obvious, I apologize. I suspect the ACC you mention is the Anglican Catholic Church. Along with the Anglican Church in America (ACA, which is the American portion of the TAC) and the Anglican Province of Christ the King (APCK), the ACC is one of the 3 largest and oldest of the Continuing Anglican jurisdictions. With 2-3 other slightly smaller jurisdictions, these constitute the bulk of the Continuum. As I have said before, around 10-12 groups cover almost all the signifiant Continuing movement.

Here’s a link to the ACC:

anglicancatholic.org/

As I’ve also mentioned before, there are 3 primary reason why the COntinuum is so fractured: personalities of the leaders, an attempt to “purify” the essence of Anglicanism (no re-inventing the Elizabethan Compromise) and Purple Passion: too many who want to be bishops. Progress toward some form of unity is slow, and inconsistent.

I recommend DIVIDED WE STAND/Douglas Bess, for some better understanding.

GKC
Click to expand...
 
“The Anglicans let crazy aunt run around and rant and rave sounding like Ron Wood from the Rolling Stones while the Catholics hide auntie in the basement.”

You’ve been to one of our parish Annual Meetings, haven’t you?

GKC
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top