Question for anti-death penalty advocates

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I see the dignity and sanctity of human life undermined in the death penalty.
What about the dignity and sanctity of the human life that was undermined by cold blooded murder?

On Christmas Eve, in a small town about 35 miles from Seattle, a woman and her boyfriend murdered her mother, father, brother, sister-in-law, 6 year old nephew and 3 year old niece. The murderers stated they felt they had been “slighted” by their family.

How do we, as a society, express our reverence and respect for innocent human life taken intentionally and brutally if we allow the perpetrators to live? How is that just?

When I watched Mark Lunsford suffer publicly over the inhuman torture and murder of his nine year old daughter, taken from her own bedroom and imprisoned for three days by a psychopath, I could not rest until I heard that John Couey had been given the death penalty. He now has the opportunity to repent and make his peace with God before he is executed.
 
What about the dignity and sanctity of the human life that was undermined by cold blooded murder?

On Christmas Eve, in a small town about 35 miles from Seattle, a woman and her boyfriend murdered her mother, father, brother, sister-in-law, 6 year old nephew and 3 year old niece. The murderers stated they felt they had been “slighted” by their family.

How do we, as a society, express our reverence and respect for innocent human life taken intentionally and brutally if we allow the perpetrators to live? How is that just?

**Perhaps by not sinking to their level of brutality, but showing them Christian forgiveness and a way of life that is superior. Do you really feel better having executed? do you feel somehow vindicated? of what? you have caged and then deliberately coldly killed. Does this teach a lesson you find worthy of a Chrisitian? One horror should not be compounded by another. **

When I watched Mark Lunsford suffer publicly over the inhuman torture and murder of his nine year old daughter, taken from her own bedroom and imprisoned for three days by a psychopath, I could not rest until I heard that John Couey had been given the death penalty. He now has the opportunity to repent and make his peace with God before he is executed.
**I think you really should discuss this with someone. Such rage and desire for vengence is most distressing. My prayers are with you. **
 
How do we, as a society, express our reverence and respect for innocent human life taken intentionally and brutally if we allow the perpetrators to live? How is that just?
I understand your outrage at the loss of innocent human life. I feel the same outrage when I think of the atrocity that goes on daily in abortion mills worldwide. However, God asks us to respect ALL life, not just those lives we deem as innocent. Remember, that our Blessed Mother stood at the foot of the cross and watched her Son die after hours of torture. Can you imagine her calling for the death of his executioners? Hardly. True peace is not found by responding to evil with another evil.

Witness To Hope
 
What about the dignity and sanctity of the human life that was undermined by cold blooded murder?

On Christmas Eve, in a small town about 35 miles from Seattle, a woman and her boyfriend murdered her mother, father, brother, sister-in-law, 6 year old nephew and 3 year old niece. The murderers stated they felt they had been “slighted” by their family.

How do we, as a society, express our reverence and respect for innocent human life taken intentionally and brutally if we allow the perpetrators to live? How is that just?

When I watched Mark Lunsford suffer publicly over the inhuman torture and murder of his nine year old daughter, taken from her own bedroom and imprisoned for three days by a psychopath, I could not rest until I heard that John Couey had been given the death penalty. He now has the opportunity to repent and make his peace with God before he is executed.
Empathy for those murdered seems to be very unpopular in the Year 2007. For some very strange reason the most vocal outcry tends to be for the one that did the deed.:mad:

I tend to cry and even get angry at those that murder and cause harm to others.
 
Does this teach a lesson you find worthy of a Chrisitian?
Based on some of your responses to your brothers and sisters on this thread, I am not sure you should be the judge of what is worthy Christian behavior.
Oh please give me a break. I’m sure that there are plenty of non-murders who are serving lengthy sentences that can be just as dangerous or threatening. If your fear is that great, you should look for another occupation. That would be a strange argument indeed, that we should continue with CP to “protect” the correctional officers" from possible danger.
You’re wrong in most everything you say. I know why people confess because I represented THOUSANDS of criminals in 19 years+, and I know why they confess. It has nothing to do with penalties. Plenty of cases go to trial wherein the defendant has confessed. In either case, an attorney is involved and is most aware of the circumstances of the confession. Have you ever talked to a death row inmate, or one facing a death sentence? I suspect you have not.
****You blithely state that there is no torture. Guess its never been tried on you. ****
**
**That is patently false. There are innumerable cases of false confessions. Your scenario makes it clear you have no experience in the criminal justice system. **
**
You set up a strawman argument, one in which many participated btw, yet you only picked me to accuse, and then conplain because I am not appropriately caring about your statement? It speaks more to your statement than to my response. Your argument made no sense.
**
**I think you really should discuss this with someone. Such rage and desire for vengence is most distressing. My prayers are with you. **
**

Thanks for the prayers!
 
Based on the responses I’ve read in this thread, I know my answer isn’t going to be too popular. But I’m not going to hide in silence just because I think most of you will be shocked and offended by my opinion.

Not only do individuals have a right to live, societies have a right to live also. If someone were to attack me or one of my loved ones with deadly force, I would have no compunctions in killing them to preserve my own life or the lives of the ones I love. So also for a society. Quite frankly, I’m unconcerned if capital punishment deters anyone else from committing a similar crime. My only concern is to make sure the individual who committed the original crime never gets the opportunity to do so again. It has nothing to do with revenge, it has everything to do with surviving as a society. You don’t want to live in a society where the government can mete out the death penalty; I’m sick and tired of living in a society that doesn’t care one whit for the victims and is only concerned for the rights of the perpetrators.

I was a juror on a murder case. The criminal was a serial killer. He murdered 6 prostitutes after doing drugs with them. He stole their money and their remaining drugs and then disposed of the bodies. I saw photographs of all the crime scenes (which means I got to see photographs of all the bodies; the most horrific being one in a state of 2 days of decomposition in mid-summer heat and humidity). I sat on that jury over 10 years ago and I can still see those photographs like it was yesterday. I will never forget them as long as I live. I got to listen to the testimony of the mothers, fathers and children of those prostitutes. Their families still loved them in spite of everything else; the anguish and pain they were undergoing was painfully evident. The evidence was overwhelming and included DNA at all the crime scenes. We found the criminal guilty of murder 6 times. In this particular state (where I no longer live) it was also the jury’s responsibility to mete out the sentence. We gave the murderer the death penalty 6 times. Afterwards in the judges chambers, it was explained to us the EARLIEST this criminal would be executed would be at least 10 years. The death penalty in this state carried automatic appeals through every level of the court system all the way up to the state supreme court. It would cost the tax payers millions upon millions of dollars for all these appeals to be heard. The judge admitted to us he would be stunned if our original verdict was overturned at any step in the legal process. Sometime after I left that state, the governor suspended capital punishment despite the protestations of the voters.

When there is incontrovertible evidence, which must include DNA, I have no problems with the death penalty. Quite frankly, when there is overwhelming evidence at the crime scene, I don’t think the murderer should be allowed to leave the scene of the crime. “Excuse me Mr. Gacy, please lay down on the floor and turn your head to the side. Excuse me Mr. Dahmer, please lay down on the floor and turn your head to the side.” 37 bodies in the crawl space under your home? Body parts in your freezer and in a pot on your stove? Execute immediately.

As I said above, it has nothing to do with revenge. It has everything to do with survival. Execute and let society move on.

PLEASE don’t pray for me about this particular issue; I will have no problem facing my Maker on Judgement Day and repeating this. If you need to pray for someone, pray for the victims of such heinous crimes and their grieving loved ones. Pray for the perpetrators of such crimes, they need your prayers more than I do. Please don’t take the preceding statement out of context, I am a sinner like any other man and definitely want and need the prayers of others. Just not about this issue. I’ve more than made my peace with my belief.
 
It has nothing to do with revenge, it has everything to do with surviving as a society. You don’t want to live in a society where the government can mete out the death penalty; I’m sick and tired of living in a society that doesn’t care one whit for the victims and is only concerned for the rights of the perpetrators.
Very well said. Fortunately, I have never been a victim of a crime. I don’t know anyone who has ever been a victim of a crime as well. So, I don’t really understand the notion of “vengence”. I do, however, completely understand and accept the meaning of:
justice
the quality of being just; righteousness, equitableness, or moral rightness
the administering of deserved punishment or reward.
It can be argued (and has been) that the condemned receive a far more humane punishment than their victims. In the cases I cited and the one experienced by bjmiller, no court in the land would subject the criminal to the same brutal death that they inflicted upon the innocents. In addition, with the length of time that transpires between the sentence and the actual execution, the condemned criminal is allowed to continue to pursue legal recourse ad nauseam and certainly given enough time to express and experience repentence.
 
**Based on some of your responses to your brothers and sisters on this thread, I am not sure you should be the judge of what is worthy Christian

No problem. Plenty of others said the same thing I did to you. Hate away if that helps you!**
 
Based on the responses I’ve read in this thread, I know my answer isn’t going to be too popular. But I’m not going to hide in silence just because I think most of you will be shocked and offended by my opinion.

Not only do individuals have a right to live, societies have a right to live also. If someone were to attack me or one of my loved ones with deadly force, I would have no compunctions in killing them to preserve my own life or the lives of the ones I love. So also for a society. Quite frankly, I’m unconcerned if capital punishment deters anyone else from committing a similar crime. My only concern is to make sure the individual who committed the original crime never gets the opportunity to do so again. It has nothing to do with revenge, it has everything to do with surviving as a society. You don’t want to live in a society where the government can mete out the death penalty; I’m sick and tired of living in a society that doesn’t care one whit for the victims and is only concerned for the rights of the perpetrators.

I was a juror on a murder case. The criminal was a serial killer. He murdered 6 prostitutes after doing drugs with them. He stole their money and their remaining drugs and then disposed of the bodies. I saw photographs of all the crime scenes (which means I got to see photographs of all the bodies; the most horrific being one in a state of 2 days of decomposition in mid-summer heat and humidity). I sat on that jury over 10 years ago and I can still see those photographs like it was yesterday. I will never forget them as long as I live. I got to listen to the testimony of the mothers, fathers and children of those prostitutes. Their families still loved them in spite of everything else; the anguish and pain they were undergoing was painfully evident. The evidence was overwhelming and included DNA at all the crime scenes. We found the criminal guilty of murder 6 times. In this particular state (where I no longer live) it was also the jury’s responsibility to mete out the sentence. We gave the murderer the death penalty 6 times. Afterwards in the judges chambers, it was explained to us the EARLIEST this criminal would be executed would be at least 10 years. The death penalty in this state carried automatic appeals through every level of the court system all the way up to the state supreme court. It would cost the tax payers millions upon millions of dollars for all these appeals to be heard. The judge admitted to us he would be stunned if our original verdict was overturned at any step in the legal process. Sometime after I left that state, the governor suspended capital punishment despite the protestations of the voters.

When there is incontrovertible evidence, which must include DNA, I have no problems with the death penalty. Quite frankly, when there is overwhelming evidence at the crime scene, I don’t think the murderer should be allowed to leave the scene of the crime. “Excuse me Mr. Gacy, please lay down on the floor and turn your head to the side. Excuse me Mr. Dahmer, please lay down on the floor and turn your head to the side.” 37 bodies in the crawl space under your home? Body parts in your freezer and in a pot on your stove? Execute immediately.

As I said above, it has nothing to do with revenge. It has everything to do with survival. Execute and let society move on.

PLEASE don’t pray for me about this particular issue; I will have no problem facing my Maker on Judgement Day and repeating this. If you need to pray for someone, pray for the victims of such heinous crimes and their grieving loved ones. Pray for the perpetrators of such crimes, they need your prayers more than I do. Please don’t take the preceding statement out of context, I am a sinner like any other man and definitely want and need the prayers of others. Just not about this issue. I’ve more than made my peace with my belief.
Your answer made alot of sense. I am not sure if I could have sat on that jury as you did. The Catholic Church does not take a firm stand on the DP. As humans priests, nuns and even popes have preached against it. Yet the teachings of the Church allow for it. Dogma and personal opinions are not always in agreement.

God Bless you on your journey home to the Catholic Church. It is not always easy but your praying daily is a wonderful place to have started.
 
Aparently Jesus believed in the death pentality because he even submitted to it.
 
I think ALL life is sacred and that I, a sinner, have NO right in having ANY say in whether or not a person should die.
 
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