Question for atheist friends: If not God, who do you think could create the cosmos out of nothing?

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(this should be in “Philosophy”, where it’s been addressed many times)

anyway…

I’m not an atheist, but I can see their point. I hope you don’t mind me making a quick attempt at this:

I posit that no-one created the cosmos; that it came into existence all by itself, as cosmoses do from time to time. God came into existence with the cosmos.
 
They will say no one did it. Either the universe has always been here (maybe going through a big bang big crunch cyle), or something else has always been here (that is natural and not God) that caused the universe to come into existence.

I’m sure there are many other answers that I don’t know or can’t remember. If I were you, I wouldn’t set yourself up like this, unless you have a good grasp on physics…
 
Hello there:)

Why would you beleive that god was created by his own, and not the same thing could be happened to the Universe?

Thanks
 
Bub said:
Hello there:)

Why would you beleive that god was created by his own, and not the same thing could be happened to the Universe?

Thanks
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Hi Bub, welcome to CAF. 👋

God is the un-created source of all creation. God as a creator of time, is outside of time. Since therefore he has no beginning in time, he has always existed, so he doesn’t need a cause. All creation started from something (or nothing) and that something (or nothing) would have to adhere to some principle of time.
 
They would have to say that:
In the beginning when there was to time, that time started,that there was a beginning but wait,there is no time yet so therefore no beginning yet. what?

After the beginning ,a singularity popped up from no where. Where? No where. It expanded , that is, created energy from no where. Wait a moment, that violates the 1st law of thermodynamics, energy can’t be created. physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/6e.html
 
As an atheist/agnostic, I have to say I dont really think about it. Why waste all my time trying to prove something that one cannot prove nor disprove? I prefer to think more about the creation of life more then the creation of the universe as we haven’t even explored our own galaxy fully let alone an entire universe.

A short story I read a long time ago made a good story of ‘creation of the universe’ and ‘God’. Humanity made a gigantic AI that could store all of humanities information and discover things by itself. Through the whole story it is asked randomly by different people 'How do we make a new sun?" (it uses more complex language, but basically people know that eventually all suns will burn out and die, thus leaving the universe dark again.) At the end of the story humanity is placed in stasis as the last sun dies. Before being frozen, one asks if there is anyway to make a sun, the AI giving its normal reply ‘Answer pending further information’. At the end millions of years pass and the AI finds a theory that could make a sun, it then spends millions of years trying to implement it. The book ends with the famous phrase ‘“Let there be light” and there was light.’

Its interesting as the concept of an all knowing computer which can create suns could be considered ‘God’.
 
StrawberryJam said:
Not sure, but I’ll go with that.

We still need to establish why a who was involved, Doctor or not.
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Agreed…to me whether religous people claim that God has always existed or non-theists accept the natural cycle of existence from “big bang” to “atropy” to “big bang” to “atropy” in an endless cycle as a natural occurance…it takes no great leap of “faith” to accept one or the other…we are able to observe our small part of the universe…and it appears to be cyclical in nature…with or without a Divine originator.
 
Publisher said:
Agreed…to me whether religous people claim that God has always existed or non-theists accept the natural cycle of existence from “big bang” to “atropy” to “big bang” to “atropy” in an endless cycle as a natural occurance…it takes no great leap of “faith” to accept one or the other…we are able to observe our small part of the universe…and it appears to be cyclical in nature…with or without a Divine originator.
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You said it much better than I could.

Realizing our limitations helps us to continue to seek. I only despair when I see those who have lost the desire to seek.
 
alitaptap said:
Hi Bub, welcome to CAF. 👋

God is the un-created source of all creation. God as a creator of time, is outside of time. Since therefore he has no beginning in time, he has always existed, so he doesn’t need a cause. All creation started from something (or nothing) and that something (or nothing) would have to adhere to some principle of time.
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You don’t get to define a being into existence. There’s insufficient evidence to claim that such a being exists, and it’s just as easy to claim that the pre-universe (the stuff that went bang at the Big Bang) was “outside of time” (as time – and causality – didn’t exist until the current form of the universe did).

If you claim that your god has always existed, without a cause, you are admitting that not all things need causes, completely invalidating any argument you can make based on causality.

Now, I agree that the universe’s existence requires an explanation (created by a magical being? the result of completely blind natural laws? always existed in one form or another? something else entirely?). I simply am honest enough to admit that we have not yet discovered such an explanation. Until we do, you are not justified in believing that a disembodied intelligence created it.
 
AntiTheist said:
You don’t get to define a being into existence. There’s insufficient evidence to claim that such a being exists, and it’s just as easy to claim that the pre-universe (the stuff that went bang at the Big Bang) was “outside of time” (as time – and causality – didn’t exist until the current form of the universe did).

If you claim that your god has always existed, without a cause, you are admitting that not all things need causes, completely invalidating any argument you can make based on causality.

Now, I agree that the universe’s existence requires an explanation (created by a magical being? the result of completely blind natural laws? always existed in one form or another? something else entirely?). I simply am honest enough to admit that we have not yet discovered such an explanation. Until we do, you are not justified in believing that a disembodied intelligence created it.
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There are certain religious questions that science cannot answer for us. This subject matter is one good example. While there is still insufficient evidence to disprove God’s existence, it makes no sense to change my view or belief about God.
 
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