Question for Catholics and Orthodox: would you follow your Church?

[peary]

I’m not really sure what you mean here. The Orthodox are most certainly saying that the Catholic Church must change its doctrines.

East is East and West is West and never the 'twain shall meet, as the old saying goes. They are going to have to give a little to get a little.

 

[JRKH]

East is East and West is West and never the 'twain shall meet, as the old saying goes. They are going to have to give a little to get a little.

One thing that we can be certain of in our faith is the idea that doctrines, once declared cannot be withdrawn.

HOWEVER

This does not preclude the development of fuller understanding and/or more precise defining of certain doctrines. There-in lies the beauty of God’s Grace. If it is the will of the Holy Spirit that East and West rejoin, then it must be clear that He has not placed any insurmountable barriers in the way.
Whether or not we can see reunification from our limited vantage point is irrelevant. It is the Will of God that determines these things. Therefore let us submit humbly to God’s will, and pray for God’s grace and Blessings on those persons charged with these matters.
God’s will in all things.

Peace
James

 

[Peter_J]

But I do have one curiosity. The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception (1854)—was it retroactively declared as an infallible doctrine of the Church after the doctrine of infallibility (1870) was defined?

Loosely speaking, we Catholics say that Vatican I made it clear that the 1854 declaration was infallibility.

Technically speaking, however, Vatican I simply said that every papal ex cathedra statement is infallible, without naming any specific ones.

So, in precise terms, Catholics (the Vatican in particular) consider I.C. to be a dogma and the 1854 declaration of it to be an ex cathedra statement, which Vatican I says is infallible.

P.S. There’ll never be a dogma which says how many ex cathedra statements there have been, just like there’ll never be a dogma which says how many ecumenical councils there have been.

 

[AlegreFe]

What doctrine of Faith or Morals would need to change in order for reunification to take place?

None. Doctrine cannot change. I guess that is why I misunderstood the question. The Poll question & answers didn’t help me either.
“Would you accept all the terms of reunification even if it meant changes in your particular Church?”
The “changes” is what I didn’t like about the question because we cannot “change” anything when it comes to doctrine.

The answers didn’t help either. It’s like they’re set in stone and not flexible.

• Yes, absolutely
• Yes, but the changes would have to be in my Church’s favor
• Maybe
• No, not at all. They need to accept my Church’s terms and that’s it! No compromise!

The 2nd and the last seem to be the same for the second part of the answer.

My answer from the beginning was always to stay here in the Roman Catholic Church. No matter what happens, the Church will never change as far as doctrine. I have faith and I trust Jesus when he said the gates of hell shall not prevail against HIS Church. I will never leave Christ’s Church.

When a Protestant decides to become Catholic they have to believe all that the Catholic Church teaches when it comes to Faith & Morals. They have to accept all doctrine one hundred percent. They cannot put in their own opinions about Church doctrine or that would leave them right back where they started before becoming Catholic. So doesn’t that say that there would be no compromise on the Church’s behalf when it comes to the Faith? There would be no bending of rules just to please the former Protestant who became Catholic.

There are doctrines and there are disciplines. The only thing that could change is discipline. Since doctrine is developed over time the only thing I can possibly see “change” is the way something is explained and expressed. But to change doctrine? No way.

I pray for unity.

 

[peary]

The Eastern Byzantine Rite Catholics came back to the Church. They didn’t have to change anything. The only had to accept the pope as the legitimate heir to the chair of Peter.

 

[Nicholas82]

None. Doctrine cannot change. I guess that is why I misunderstood the question. The Poll question & answers didn’t help me either.
"Would you accept all the terms of reunification even if it meant changes in your particular Church?"
The “changes” is what I didn’t like about the question because we cannot “change” anything when it comes to doctrine.

The answers didn’t help either. It’s like they’re set in stone and not flexible.

• Yes, absolutely
• Yes, but the changes would have to be in my Church’s favor
• Maybe
• No, not at all. They need to accept my Church’s terms and that’s it! No compromise!

The 2nd and the last seem to be the same for the second part of the answer.

My answer from the beginning was always to stay here in the Roman Catholic Church. No matter what happens, the Church will never change as far as doctrine. I have faith and I trust Jesus when he said the gates of hell shall not prevail against HIS Church. I will never leave Christ’s Church.

When a Protestant decides to become Catholic they have to believe all that the Catholic Church teaches when it comes to Faith & Morals. They have to accept all doctrine one hundred percent. They cannot put in their own opinions about Church doctrine or that would leave them right back where they started before becoming Catholic. So doesn’t that say that there would be no compromise on the Church’s behalf when it comes to the Faith? There would be no bending of rules just to please the former Protestant who became Catholic.

There are doctrines and there are disciplines. The only thing that could change is discipline. Since doctrine is developed over time the only thing I can possibly see “change” is the way something is explained and expressed. But to change doctrine? No way.

I pray for unity.

The question has nothing to do with protestants. We(Orthodox) are not Protestants.

 

[Catholic4Christ]

I would 100% accept. If the churches unified and things changed that weren’t supposed to, the new amalgamated Church would be false, and since the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, that would mean that God made a mistake. I just can’t accept that.

 

[JRKH]

I would 100% accept. If the churches unified and things changed that weren’t supposed to, the new amalgamated Church would be false, and since the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, that would mean that God made a mistake. I just can’t accept that.

:clapping:

 

[AlegreFe]

The question has nothing to do with protestants. We(Orthodox) are not Protestants.

I never said you were. I was just using a Protestant convert as an example of them coming in to the Church and that the Church will never change her doctrines just for that protestant person. So too the Church will never change doctrine just for the unification of the Orthodox to the Roman Catholic Church. Please read my post again! or not.

Besides, since Orthodox people protest against some of the Catholic Church’s teachings then that would be considered protestant. But I know they are not considered “Protestant” in that sense. I would never call an Eastern Orthodox or any other “Orthodox” person a “Protestant.”

 

[AlegreFe]

I would 100% accept. If the churches unified and things changed that weren’t supposed to, the new amalgamated Church would be false, and since the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, that would mean that God made a mistake. I just can’t accept that.

That would never happen! That is why I do NOT like this poll. The Church will NEVER change! God is the same yesterday, today and always & forever! If reunification happens it would most definitely be on the Roman Catholic Church’s terms when it comes to doctrine, faith & morals, and that’s it!!

bye! I’m unsubscribing from this thread, not that anyone cares. This thread is senseless.

 

[031064]

i’M GOING TO GET BROILED FOR SAYING THIS:

God tells us to proclaim the truth and I will. the Catholic church holds the height of Christian truth and is therefore not subject to such quibling over her leaders infallibility.

That’s “'nuff said.” as the people on this forum would have it.

 

[Peter_J]

I really don’t see a problem with this post:

I would 100% accept. If the churches unified and things changed that weren’t supposed to, the new amalgamated Church would be false, and since the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, that would mean that God made a mistake. I just can’t accept that.

I think that makes perfect sense. If the Catholic and Orthodox Churches reconciled and enter into full communion, nothing would change that wasn’t supposed to change. (To say otherwise would imply that the Catholic Church isn’t the true church.)