Question for Catholics

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What is the reference source for “Sacred Tradition” (as distinct from “Sacred Scripture”)? Is there a book, a website, or some other source I can go to in order to discover what is in it? Suppose I wanted to know if a certain doctrine, teaching, or practice is found in Sacred Tradition or not; where do I go to find that out?
 
What is the reference source for “Sacred Tradition” (as distinct from “Sacred Scripture”)? Is there a book, a website, or some other source I can go to in order to discover what is in it? Suppose I wanted to know if a certain doctrine, teaching, or practice is found in Sacred Tradition or not; where do I go to find that out?
vatican.va/
 
What is the reference source for “Sacred Tradition” (as distinct from “Sacred Scripture”)? Is there a book, a website, or some other source I can go to in order to discover what is in it? Suppose I wanted to know if a certain doctrine, teaching, or practice is found in Sacred Tradition or not; where do I go to find that out?
Hi zerinus,

I am afraid you probably can’t locate such a sourcebook. Tradition mostly takes the form of actions than writing. I’ll try to explain.

Sacred Tradition would be mostly found in practices of the Church that were handed down from generation to generation. This becomes important in the area of doctrine when one can see by a particular ancient practice, the corresponding doctrine. For instance, we see that Tertullian objected to the practice of infant baptism shortly before he became a Montanist. This would imply that infant baptism has its origin before this time, and Catholics would say it goes back to the Apostolic times. The liturgy is another good source of Sacred Tradition. One can discover a lot about what the Church taught from what the Church prayed corporately.

But I don’t believe the Church divides doctrines which are known through Sacred Tradition versus those which are known through Sacred Scripture. That is why I think you will vainly search for a Catholic reference such as you are thinking about. It is my opinion that Sacred Scripture contains implicitly what becomes explicit by pondering Sacred Tradition and vice versa. Both sources supplement each other and do not stand alone. (Two witnesses?)

It is reasonable that others preceded him with this idea, but St. Irenaeus is the first of the Fathers of the Church to have a documented appeal to Apostolic Tradition as an authority for determining right doctrine and practice:
For how stands the case? Suppose there arise a dispute relative to some important question among us, should we not have recourse to the most ancient Churches with which the apostles held constant intercourse, and learn from them what is certain and clear in regard to the present question? For how should it be if the apostles themselves had not left us writings? Would it not be necessary, [in that case,] to follow the course of the tradition which they handed down to those to whom they did commit the Churches?
—Against Heresies 3:4:1

It thus became a source of authority for the local churches to consult with the Apostolic churches, and particularly the church at Rome (since both Sts. Peter and Paul ministered and were martyred there) to see what Rome taught or did if a dispute should arise. Eventually the churches of the west almost all adopted the same liturgy used by the Roman church even to the point of invoking the Roman martyrs during the prayers of the Mass.
 
Even the Bible comes from Sacred Tradition. It just happens to be the part of Sacred Tradition that got written down and canonized. 😉

It’s not like Christ Himself wrote of His own life story. And the original text of the New Testament wasnt in Aramaic, but Greek.
 
The Catechism is not a bad place to start. However, even that will not really be what you want.

The Catholic Faith is like a piece of clothing. It is a whole thing and cannot really be split up without changing what it is. As someone pointed out, the Bible itself is a product of Sacred Tradition. In fact, almost everything within the faith has some level of Sacred Tradition within it.
 
What is the reference source for “Sacred Tradition” (as distinct from “Sacred Scripture”)? Is there a book, a website, or some other source I can go to in order to discover what is in it? Suppose I wanted to know if a certain doctrine, teaching, or practice is found in Sacred Tradition or not; where do I go to find that out?
The Catechism.
It basically has everything in there. It’s easy to read and heavily footnoted with the original source documents where you can find the source of any doctrine.

scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm

I wish I had access to this years ago in my spiritual journey.
 
What is the reference source for “Sacred Tradition” (as distinct from “Sacred Scripture”)? Is there a book, a website, or some other source I can go to in order to discover what is in it? Suppose I wanted to know if a certain doctrine, teaching, or practice is found in Sacred Tradition or not; where do I go to find that out?
And just for fun you could go to a local Borders or other bookstore and find a Catholicism for Dummies which can give you a quick run-down on big T Tradition and little t tradition as well as most other things Catholic.
 
What is the reference source for “Sacred Tradition” (as distinct from “Sacred Scripture”)? Is there a book, a website, or some other source I can go to in order to discover what is in it? Suppose I wanted to know if a certain doctrine, teaching, or practice is found in Sacred Tradition or not; where do I go to find that out?
Here, read this article:

mark-shea.com/tradition.html
 
Hi zerinus,

I am afraid you probably can’t locate such a sourcebook. Tradition mostly takes the form of actions than writing. I’ll try to explain.

Sacred Tradition would be mostly found in practices of the Church that were handed down from generation to generation. This becomes important in the area of doctrine when one can see by a particular ancient practice, the corresponding doctrine. For instance, we see that Tertullian objected to the practice of infant baptism shortly before he became a Montanist. This would imply that infant baptism has its origin before this time, and Catholics would say it goes back to the Apostolic times. The liturgy is another good source of Sacred Tradition. One can discover a lot about what the Church taught from what the Church prayed corporately.

But I don’t believe the Church divides doctrines which are known through Sacred Tradition versus those which are known through Sacred Scripture. That is why I think you will vainly search for a Catholic reference such as you are thinking about. It is my opinion that Sacred Scripture contains implicitly what becomes explicit by pondering Sacred Tradition and vice versa. Both sources supplement each other and do not stand alone. (Two witnesses?)

It is reasonable that others preceded him with this idea, but St. Irenaeus is the first of the Fathers of the Church to have a documented appeal to Apostolic Tradition as an authority for determining right doctrine and practice:—Against Heresies 3:4:1

It thus became a source of authority for the local churches to consult with the Apostolic churches, and particularly the church at Rome (since both Sts. Peter and Paul ministered and were martyred there) to see what Rome taught or did if a dispute should arise. Eventually the churches of the west almost all adopted the same liturgy used by the Roman church even to the point of invoking the Roman martyrs during the prayers of the Mass.
Thank you Roy for your interesting reply. That however raises more puzzling questions for me. From what I hear, in Catholicism Sacred Tradition has an equal place with Sacred Scripture in determining Catholic doctrine; yet is has the vaguest, the most indefinable and indeterminate definition of what constitutes Sacred Tradition.

All the major Abrahamic religions have a tradition as well as a scripture. The Jews and Muslims have it too. But there are two main differences between their Traditions and the Catholic one. Firstly, their Traditions are something that is written. There are books you can consult to find out what it is. In Judaism if I am not mistaken it is in the Talmud. Our Jewish friends can correct me if I am wrong. So there is a place you can go to, to find out what it is. The same is true of Islam. Their Tradition is called the Sunnah, and it consists of the recorded sayings and practices of the Prophet Mohamed and his immediate followers. There are books that can be consulted to find out what it is. From what I gather, some of those “traditions” are of doubtful authenticity. But many of them are probably genuine. But the main thing is that it is recorded. There are sources you can go to, to find out what it is.

The other difference between them is that in both cases, Scripture takes precedence over Tradition in determining doctrine. In the New Testament, although Jesus accepted Jewish Scripture unreservedly, He did not give equal place to their traditions. When they criticized him for not following the “tradition of the elders,” His reply was, “Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?” (Matthew 15:3). In Islam too Scripture takes precedence over Tradition. An Islamic jurist who wants to determine Islamic law on a particular subject, his first point of reference is the Koran. If he cannot find his answer in that source, then he turns to Tradition.

Even Mormonism has a “tradition” of sorts—although we don’t call it by that name. The writings and sermons of past presidents and General Authorities of the Church can be regarded as part of the Mormon “tradition”. But the same distinction applies here too. Firstly, it is something that is written. There are sources you can consult to fund out what it is. Secondly, scripture always takes precedence over tradition. If there is a discrepancy between the two, for us scripture always wins. But in the Catholic Church, Sacred Tradition is the most vague, indefinable, indeterminate thing ever. It is like pulling rabbits out of a hat! And it is afforded equal place with Sacred Scripture in determining Catholic doctrine! That is what I find most puzzling.
 
There are many useful links from the Salvation History site be dilligent there you should find your answers. You might try studying the early Church fathers.
Tradition brought you the Bible the Canonization process was also Tradition. Remember the Church existed before the Bible.
And the Bible also supports the Church 1Tim 3:15 “But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.”
And various other places as well.
Scott Hahn has some excellent MP-3 talks on this subject online free to download. I am not sure of the site but Google will get you there.
I pray you continue to search for the truth I believe you are on the right path keep asking!
 
Zerinus,
One difference between Catholicism and Judaism and Islam with respect to tradition is that there has never been a sect of Catholicism that totally or partially discounts tradition. Both of the other faiths do. That makes it easier to say which is which.

Again, the Catholic faith is a combination of Tradition and Scripture. If you remove one, you no longer have the faith. Tradition has a place at least equal to Scripture because Tradition gave us Scripture.
 
Zerinus,
One difference between Catholicism and Judaism and Islam with respect to tradition is that there has never been a sect of Catholicism that totally or partially discounts tradition. Both of the other faiths do. That makes it easier to say which is which.
I didn’t really understand that. Can you explain it a bit better?
Again, the Catholic faith is a combination of Tradition and Scripture. If you remove one, you no longer have the faith. Tradition has a place at least equal to Scripture because Tradition gave us Scripture.
But that was not my question. My question was, What is Tradition, where do you go to find it, and how do you determine what is or is not in it?
 
[SIGN][/SIGN]
Thank you Roy for your interesting reply. That however raises more puzzling questions for me. From what I hear, in Catholicism Sacred Tradition has an equal place with Sacred Scripture in determining Catholic doctrine; yet is has the vaguest, the most indefinable and indeterminate definition of what constitutes Sacred Tradition.

All the major Abrahamic religions have a tradition as well as a scripture. The Jews and Muslims have it too. But there are two main differences between their Traditions and the Catholic one. Firstly, their Traditions are something that is written. There are books you can consult to find out what it is. In Judaism if I am not mistaken it is in the Talmud. Our Jewish friends can correct me if I am wrong. So there is a place you can go to, to find out what it is. The same is true of Islam. Their Tradition is called the Sunnah, and it consists of the recorded sayings and practices of the Prophet Mohamed and his immediate followers. There are books that can be consulted to find out what it is. From what I gather, some of those “traditions” are of doubtful authenticity. But many of them are probably genuine. But the main thing is that it is recorded. There are sources you can go to, to find out what it is.

The other difference between them is that in both cases, Scripture takes precedence over Tradition in determining doctrine. In the New Testament, although Jesus accepted Jewish Scripture unreservedly, He did not give equal place to their traditions. When they criticized him for not following the “tradition of the elders,” His reply was, “Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?” (Matthew 15:3). In Islam too Scripture takes precedence over Tradition. An Islamic jurist who wants to determine Islamic law on a particular subject, his first point of reference is the Koran. If he cannot find his answer in that source, then he turns to Tradition.

Even Mormonism has a “tradition” of sorts—although we don’t call it by that name. The writings and sermons of past presidents and General Authorities of the Church can be regarded as part of the Mormon “tradition”. But the same distinction applies here too. Firstly, it is something that is written. There are sources you can consult to fund out what it is. Secondly, scripture always takes precedence over tradition. If there is a discrepancy between the two, for us scripture always wins. But in the Catholic Church, Sacred Tradition is the most vague, indefinable, indeterminate thing ever. It is like pulling rabbits out of a hat! And it is afforded equal place with Sacred Scripture in determining Catholic doctrine! [SIGN]That is what I find most puzzling[/SIGN].
You have to remember much of the Church teaching is a mystery. So don’t be surprised to find alot of things puzzling. But we were left with the Gift of the Holy Spirit to guide us into the mystery. And actually our Tradition is not vague all you have to do is enter Mass and it is taught quite simply.

I like to compare Tradition and SS into making bread. Sounds silly I know but hear me out. You know with bread you need flour yeast etc. But how much flour etc. Its never really the same. You must do it and be taught (passed on ). Thats tradition. SS is written teachings of Christ. But Tradition is passed on and living the words of Christ.

I was taught SS in Catholic School. But I was taught Tradition at home. I had to live those words. Tradition to me is living Gods word. SS is reading it and knowing what to do. Thats why SS without Traditon is worthless. Like the bread what good is the ingred. without knowing the directions!😃 The only difference is you learn Tradition where else but in Gods House. Church!
 
What is the reference source for “Sacred Tradition” (as distinct from “Sacred Scripture”)? Is there a book, a website, or some other source I can go to in order to discover what is in it? Suppose I wanted to know if a certain doctrine, teaching, or practice is found in Sacred Tradition or not; where do I go to find that out?
Take this as the perfect oppertunity to start reading “The Fathers”, that is the Church Fathers!! Ultimatly this is where much of Sacrade Tradition comes from, and certianly where you’ll find the earliest recordings of them. A great website (which seems to be pretty faith nutral as far as I can tell) is www.earlychristianwritings.com. I would offer only this caution, that literally all writings associated with early Christianity are there, including condemed works some of which were probably written to help get people out of the faith. So a little background research on the history of some of what you’re about to read.
 
I didn’t really understand that. Can you explain it a bit better?
There are sects in Judaism that totally discount anything that is not specifically written in the Scriptures, including, for example, the resurrection of the dead and the afterlife. Because of that, there are books to show what is and is not in there. The same is true with Islam. There is no such thing in the Catholic faith. The Catholic faith is, by definition, both Tradition and Scripture.
But that was not my question. My question was, What is Tradition, where do you go to find it, and how do you determine what is or is not in it?
The Faith itself is the holder of Tradition. If it is a part of the faith, it is part of Tradition. If it is not, it was not.

That is why there is no real “List of Sacred Traditions” in the faith.

That is why the Catechism is such a good source. It shows different articles of faith and how they are supported in Tradition and in Scripture.

Sacred Tradition are those parts of the Faith that have been taught from the beginning and are not specifically listed out in Scripture.
 
Thank you Roy for your interesting reply. That however raises more puzzling questions for me. From what I hear, in Catholicism Sacred Tradition has an equal place with Sacred Scripture in determining Catholic doctrine; yet is has the vaguest, the most indefinable and indeterminate definition of what constitutes Sacred Tradition.

All the major Abrahamic religions have a tradition as well as a scripture. The Jews and Muslims have it too. But there are two main differences between their Traditions and the Catholic one. Firstly, their Traditions are something that is written. There are books you can consult to find out what it is. In Judaism if I am not mistaken it is in the Talmud. Our Jewish friends can correct me if I am wrong. So there is a place you can go to, to find out what it is. The same is true of Islam. Their Tradition is called the Sunnah, and it consists of the recorded sayings and practices of the Prophet Mohamed and his immediate followers. There are books that can be consulted to find out what it is. From what I gather, some of those “traditions” are of doubtful authenticity. But many of them are probably genuine. But the main thing is that it is recorded. There are sources you can go to, to find out what it is.

The other difference between them is that in both cases, Scripture takes precedence over Tradition in determining doctrine. In the New Testament, although Jesus accepted Jewish Scripture unreservedly, He did not give equal place to their traditions. When they criticized him for not following the “tradition of the elders,” His reply was, “Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?” (Matthew 15:3). In Islam too Scripture takes precedence over Tradition. An Islamic jurist who wants to determine Islamic law on a particular subject, his first point of reference is the Koran. If he cannot find his answer in that source, then he turns to Tradition.

Even Mormonism has a “tradition” of sorts—although we don’t call it by that name. The writings and sermons of past presidents and General Authorities of the Church can be regarded as part of the Mormon “tradition”. But the same distinction applies here too. Firstly, it is something that is written. There are sources you can consult to fund out what it is. Secondly, scripture always takes precedence over tradition. If there is a discrepancy between the two, for us scripture always wins. But in the Catholic Church, Sacred Tradition is the most vague, indefinable, indeterminate thing ever. It is like pulling rabbits out of a hat! And it is afforded equal place with Sacred Scripture in determining Catholic doctrine! That is what I find most puzzling.
Maybe I am wrong too. The other Catholics are suggesting articles, books, and other references that give you the writings you have requested. Come back later and tell me if they were right.

As for the Muslim and Jewish way of doing things, that is them. If their traditions are subject to their Scriptures, and they acknowledge the possibility of conflict, then that’s too bad for them.

Our Tradition supports Scripture, our Scripture supports Tradition. There is never a conflict. Personally, I hold that the Scripture alone is always inadequate to resolve dioctrinal controversy. You talk about Tradition being vague, but it brings more light to determine by Tradition that the Apostolic Church had formal, liturgical worship with an episcopal hierarchy, than it is to consult the Scripture on the same subjects. The Scriptures don’t give a program of what the Sunday worship, a wedding, or a funeral was like. Further, the Scriptures alone are never adequate to resolve doctrinal controversies. Why? They are ambiguous (taken alone) regarding many other important matters. When there is a doctrinal dispute about Scripture, Tradition steps in to settle the question.

The Christians who say that Scripture is the sole authority of faith and practice inevitably suffer from doctrinal splits and divisions. The people don’t agree about baptism, the Lord’s Supper, marriage and remarriage, and other matters so serious that it means you can’t go to church together unless you are agreed. And they all read the same Bible. They need Tradition. They need to have a “novelty killer”.

When sects split off from the Catholic Church it usually starts when somebody creates a new and exciting interpretation of Scripture unsupported by Tradition. Novelty is the death of an Apostolic Church, and Tradition is the death of novelty. If Tradition is vague by itself, so is Scripture. Neither operates properly without the other. History shows that schism is inevitable where the Christian Scriptures are extrapolated from the Tradition that gave them birth.

Rory
 
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