Question for Converts - accepting the teachings of the Church

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I definitely struggled with some teachings but my attitude was that I would not worry about it and let it sort itself out. Not very mature, I know, but I was 16 and couldn’t come up with a better solution, ie. study the faith seriously. The RCIA instructor did not know about this, things were not discussed ina way that we expressed doubt or resistence.

I was tested and I failed. My cafetteria approach led me to a pretty miserable life where I was struggling to remain Catholic.

I experienced a deep conversion a few years ago, finally started trusting God and that made me accept all the teachings. It seemed logical and natural to do so. I can’t imagine it any other way now.

I know what you mean about not receiving people who dissent. My aunt argued with her RCIA instructor over everything, even about the existence of God, and was received anyway. That was stupid on their behalf, imo. But most people go through phases of learning and growing in faith so even if they are not 100% commited they might come round eventually. It is difficult to say what the best way is to set the criteria for converts.

 

[nickybr38]

I see you are already a “Regular” CAF member. Has this site helped you find answers?

In some cases yes and in others no. Sometimes it just created more confusion. I think the issues I’m struggling with now are issues that need a more personal touch to get worked through (Eucharist, confession, etc). And when you ask about these things on this site you get many contradicting answers so I just feel like I need to speak to someone one on one.

 

[nickybr38]

Hi nickybr, Are “they” your RCIA catechists? What DID they teach you? How many were in your group and how long did you meet? Please remember them in your prayers – the RCIA leaders and those who were in your group. You are doubly blessed for your yearning for the truth.

I encourage you to make an appointment with your pastor, for two reasons. He should know about the poor content of your RCIA instruction. He should know that you yearn for more reinforcement.

Yes, they were our RCIA catechists. They taught us how to read the liturgical calender, they taught extensively about marriage (and of course annullment - only two of us were single folks the rest were all married), they taught us about alb’s and chausible’s and the difference between the nave and the sanctuary… they gave us little phamphlets every week that mentioned the sacraments but never REALLY explained them. They just spoke in really flowery language about how they are important and keep us in touch with God. Well, that’s great, but what ARE they? The phamphlet on Confession, for example, just said that Confession reconciles us with God and our fellow parishioners (except it took half a page to say that).

Really useful info.

A lot of the time our catechists would bring up issues that they, personally were struggling with, but these issues were usually basic Christian issues, such as how come bad things happen to good people.

Basically, as my roommate called it many times, it was a watered down Bible study. We’d read the Bible an hour and then pick over EVERY SINGLE verse and spend time talking about how each verse made us feel. Then we’d have a quick ten minute blurb on this sacrament or that sacrament and then they’d send us home…

We just got a new priest. I have been trying to meet with him but it just hasn’t been working out. I’m going to try this weekend again (because I desperately need to go to Confession) but I’m not holding my breath. It seems like everyone is keeping him very busy. sigh

Whew. Ranty pants huh?

 

[k8e308]

I’m answering for my husband, who is a convert, but I went through the RCIA classes with him:

1. Our priest runs the RCIA program, and he is very orthodox. He did not gloss over any teaching, and certainly did not contradict any outright. Even when an participant asked him to repeat or explain in clear disbelief, he would explain again exactly what the Church teaches, referencing the Catechism, and even if the participant asked again, repeating what he said, he would just say “That’s right”, with a little knowing smile. I think his faith and steadfast defence of the Church helped convince many in the group to accept what they could not understand.
2. As far as I know, the only “test” was the Sacrament of Reconciliation, which our priest required of every participant. I obviously can’t attest to what was spoken about, but I hope he asked each participant then if they accepted the teachings of the Church and spoke with them about any doubts.
3. and 4. My husband never spoke to me or the priest about rejecting any of the teachings, but has come out now and rejected some of them to me. I can only assume he rejected them at the time of his Confirmation as well, and just didn’t say anything.
4. I believe he has partially accepted some things that he did not before (like he accepts why I won’t use hormonal birth control, but doesn’t understand why he can’t get a vasectomy after we’re “done” having kids), but I don’t really think he’s come any further in understanding the Church as a whole. He still thinks it’s okay to be Catholic and not accept all of the teachings, he still thinks that all Protestant churches are just as “good”, “true” or “right” as the Catholic Church.

As a side note, I don’t believe that any RCIA instructor would have made a difference with my husband. He doesn’t seem to have a teachable spirit, or have any interest in a different view than his own.

I do believe however, that another RCIA instructor might not have accepted him had he or she taken the time to closely question him about his beliefs. Our priest, extremely orthodox as he is, would rather accept (or marry, or baptise, or whatever) someone he is not sure should be than offend someone and chase them away from the Church. In order to accomplish this, I think sometimes he just doesn’t ask the tough questions (although he gladly answers them) so he can, in good conciense, help people to the Church in the best way he knows how. I don’t know if this is the bishop’s policy, or his personal decision, and I continue to vascillate on whether or not this is a good thing. I always come to the conclusion that I’ll never really know, because I’ll never be in that position (and don’t want to be). I just thank God I have an orthodox priest who will answer the tough questions with the Catholic answer without judgement and without probing deeper than you want him to.

 

[Skeptic92]

I’d like to hear from converts (recent and long ago) about how their process (RCIA, individual study, whatever) dealt with presenting them with the teachings of the Church (both faith and morals) and how their acceptance (or rejection) was tested (or not). What I’d like to know is:

1. 
   *]Did you have to accept ALL the teachings of the Church? Or did they soft peddle some and let them slide?
   *]How was your acceptance “tested”? I know at the Rite of Initiation candidates make a statement of faith, but did you do something more?
   *]Did any of you admit rejecting some of the teachings but were accepted any way?
   *]If you rejected some of the teachings did that change later on so that you accept them now?
   *]Are there still teachings you reject? (Doubts don’t count).
   
   I want to make it clear that my personal opinion is that everyone should have all aspects of the faith fully and clearly explained and that they should not be received into the Church until they can fully accept these teachings. What I’m after is to see what the actual practice is out there.

1. 1. Yep, our Priest went over every teaching that converts normally have trouble with (Our Lady, The Real Presence, Intercession of Saints) as well as doctrinal social issues that people have trouble with at times (homosexuality, divorce etc) and he told us if we can’t accept any of these teachings, he will not receive and confirm us.
   2)Our Priest went over EVERYTHING he had told and taught us in a one to one session before he sent off our papers to our Archbishop, and we we’re asked if there was any teaching we was having trouble with, at all, from RCIA or the Catechism
   1. I never truly rejected any teachings of the Catholic Church, I just had trouble understanding them, but I submitted to the authority of the Church, and realised there is many things I will never understand about the faith.
   2. As I said I don’t reject any teachings, but I have trouble understanding the Divine Mysteries (such as the Trinity, which I’m sure is only normal), and other things such as the Immaculate Conception, but again, I must submit to the authority of the Church

 

[TrueLight]

1. As I said I don’t reject any teachings, but I have trouble understanding the Divine Mysteries (such as the Trinity, which I’m sure is only normal), and other things such as the Immaculate Conception, but again, I must submit to the authority of the Church

Did you tell him at that time that you struggled with those issues?

 

[Skeptic92]

Did you tell him at that time that you struggled with those issues?

Yes I was honest that I was struggling to understand them, I and still don’t understand the Trinity, but it is a Divine Mystery, that no one, not even the greatest theologians truly understand, my Priest spoke to me about the other thing’s I was struggling with, and I either grew to understand them, or I submitted to authority and fully accepted the teachings even though i didn’t understand them.

 

[Pug]

Basically, as my roommate called it many times, it was a watered down Bible study. We’d read the Bible an hour and then pick over EVERY SINGLE verse and spend time talking about how each verse made us feel. Then we’d have a quick ten minute blurb on this sacrament or that sacrament and then they’d send us home…

It sort of sounds to me like you had a lectionary based RCIA class, rather than a class where you studied a different doctrine each day. A type of class where the focus was on RCIA as a process, on becoming a part of a community, etc.

If you are having troubling meeting with a priest for confession, and it is urgent, I’d try a different priest just this time, so you don’t have to wait too long. I’d go nuts if I felt it was urgent, but I had to wait several weeks. :crying:

 

[leewis]

I’d like to hear from converts (recent and long ago) about how their process (RCIA, individual study, whatever) dealt with presenting them with the teachings of the Church (both faith and morals) and how their acceptance (or rejection) was tested (or not). What I’d like to know is:

1. 
   *]Did you have to accept ALL the teachings of the Church? Or did they soft peddle some and let them slide?
   *]How was your acceptance “tested”? I know at the Rite of Initiation candidates make a statement of faith, but did you do something more?
   *]Did any of you admit rejecting some of the teachings but were accepted any way?
   *]If you rejected some of the teachings did that change later on so that you accept them now?
   *]Are there still teachings you reject? (Doubts don’t count).
   
   I want to make it clear that my personal opinion is that everyone should have all aspects of
   the faith fully and clearly explained and that they should not be received into the Church until they can fully accept these teachings. What I’m after is to see what the actual practice is out there.

1. 
   Hi MSSHEBEAR
   It is I, again Leewis, you seem to have disappeared what happen? You also seem to be having trouble with Our Faith.
   I sure would like to be friends with you.
   Leewis
   :bible1:

 

[TrueLight]

Hi MSSHEBEAR
It is I, again Leewis, you seem to have disappeared what happen? You also seem to be having trouble with Our Faith.
I sure would like to be friends with you.
Leewis
:bible1:

 

[InternetWoman]

It sort of sounds to me like you had a lectionary based RCIA class, rather than a class where you studied a different doctrine each day. A type of class where the focus was on RCIA as a process, on becoming a part of a community, etc.

I think the lectionary based approach is great for Sundays - and for maintaining a year-round RCIA “presence”. It is however, demonstrably, HORRIBLE for actually teaching the truths of the faith.

I think you need BOTH in a good RCIA program.

 

[Pug]

I think the lectionary based approach is great for Sundays - and for maintaining a year-round RCIA “presence”. It is however, demonstrably, HORRIBLE for actually teaching the truths of the faith.

I think you need BOTH in a good RCIA program.

I think most RCIA programs do have both, at least in my diocese. I have trouble visualizing exactly what makes an RCIA program good. I know what makes it bad, certainly, but the magic combination that makes it good seems hard to quantify.

 

[KarenElissa]

]Did you have to accept ALL the teachings of the Church? Or did they soft peddle some and let them slide?

MY RCIA did a pretty good job of hitting the major things. It wasn’t very in depth, but I don’t remember them glossing over stuff either. I do think we were meant to accept everything.

How was your acceptance “tested”? I know at the Rite of Initiation candidates make a statement of faith, but did you do something more?

Throughout or program we used a book that had discussion questions at the end of each chapter. We were supposed to choose one question and write a paragraph or two to answer it. I assume that if any of my answers had been way “off” it would have been brought up. For me though, by the time I started RCIA, I had a pretty good understanding of the teachings and was perfectly happy to accept them.

Did any of you admit rejecting some of the teachings but were accepted any way?

I don’t know from personal experience, but I would guess that someone who out right rejects teachings, would be encouraged to spend some more time in RCIA. The RCIA team makes it a point to stress the fact that RCIA is a process and everyone is at a different point in the journey and that for some people it will take longer than it does for others.

If you rejected some of the teachings did that change later on so that you accept them now?

N/A

Are there still teachings you reject? (Doubts don’t count).

There are no teachings that I reject. There are still a few that I don’t really “get”, like indulgences and some of the devotional stuff around Mary, but I’m ok with that. I can choose to basically ignore those, there are plenty of other ways to grow in my faith.

 

[InternetWoman]

I think most RCIA programs do have both, at least in my diocese. I have trouble visualizing exactly what makes an RCIA program good. I know what makes it bad, certainly, but the magic combination that makes it good seems hard to quantify.

Oh my yes!! Which is actually part of the reason I’ve asked this question on teaching the truths of the faith. Are you involved in RCIA yourself? (If you don’t mind my asking?)

 

[Pug]

Oh my yes!! Which is actually part of the reason I’ve asked this question on teaching the truths of the faith. Are you involved in RCIA yourself? (If you don’t mind my asking?)

No, I don’t mind at all. Yes, I’ve been part of the RCIA team for, oh, well, for a little longer than our current pastor has been here, and he is running out of time (they transfer pastors on a vaguely regular schedule).

Does your parish do the rite of sending? Have you noticed how the RCIA team is supposed to publicly affirm how the people are doing on their journey? I find this duty difficult sometimes, since the team doesn’t always have that information or perhaps might suspect they have seen the contrary in an individual, and, as your thread is all about, not all RCIA programs are designed so that a person is tested in any way in the truths of the faith or in its practice (like charity and conversion).

Ooooh! I found it. Here is the stuff that the team has to say THEY HAVE to:Have they taken their formation in the Gospel and in the Catholic way of life seriously?
Have they given evidence of their conversion by the example of their lives?
Do you believe them ready to be presented to the Bishop for the Rite of Election?

That first question is super easy to say THEY HAVE to if the people have been coming to RCIA class.

 

[ClairUK]

Many thanks to the OP and all the responders for this thread…it’s been both informative and reassuring! As someone just beginning the process of conversion, it’s good to know I don’t have to understand everything, as long as I trust in God, which I do

 

[TanyaBel]

The program I went through glossed over all of the tough issues, if not outright contradicting them. When the instructor said we didn’t have to believe that Mary was a virgin, but maybe was just a “young girl” - I lost my mind.
Long story short, I prayed, a lot, and am now the coordinator of our program. We strive for complete faithfulness to the CCC and the Magisterium, even when the issues are tough.

I’ve been thinking about the conversation that needs to happen - the one that asks if they accept the teachings of the Church. I think the conversation could just ask them one-on-one the questions they’ll be asked in their profession of faith. And give them an opportunity to discuss those that they struggle with. I think it will shed a lot of light on how well we’ve been teaching and where we need to focus our attention.

 

[peanutproduct]

Did you have to accept ALL the teachings of the Church? Or did they soft peddle some and let them slide?
How was your acceptance “tested”? I know at the Rite of Initiation candidates make a statement of faith, but did you do something more?
Did any of you admit rejecting some of the teachings but were accepted any way?
If you rejected some of the teachings did that change later on so that you accept them now?
Are there still teachings you reject? (Doubts don’t count).

1. We were told we had to accept all teachings (…I can’t remember the exact words, but basically teachings) that were revealed by God, but not all teachings of the Church exactly. We were also told that if we truly believed something was incorrect, but continued to research the issue and consider the reasoning behind that teaching, that it’s ok if you don’t follow it. We had several discussions on teachings though and I thought the class did a good job of covering different areas.
2. We only repeated the statement. There wasn’t any one-on-one talks. I guess the instructor based the “testing” on how we responded in discussions.
3. I don’t remember if anyone actually outright rejected a teaching during the open discussions, but I do remember a few arguments breaking out over certain topics. I’m unsure if the people involved discussed the topics further with anyone.

 

[quiet52]

1. We were told we had to accept all teachings (…I can’t remember the exact words, but basically teachings) that were revealed by God, but not all teachings of the Church exactly. We were also told that if we truly believed something was incorrect, but continued to research the issue and consider the reasoning behind that teaching, that it’s ok if you don’t follow it. We had several discussions on teachings though and I thought the class did a good job of covering different areas.

I am confused. We all understand that through proclamations of dogma, the Church clarifies that which is already believed. That does not make these beliefs any less revealed by God. Can you please provide examples of Church teachings which have not been revealed by God? Thank you.

 

[InternetWoman]

The program I went through glossed over all of the tough issues, if not outright contradicting them. When the instructor said we didn’t have to believe that Mary was a virgin, but maybe was just a “young girl” - I lost my mind.
Long story short, I prayed, a lot, and am now the coordinator of our program. We strive for complete faithfulness to the CCC and the Magisterium, even when the issues are tough.

I’ve been thinking about the conversation that needs to happen - the one that asks if they accept the teachings of the Church. I think the conversation could just ask them one-on-one the questions they’ll be asked in their profession of faith. And give them an opportunity to discuss those that they struggle with. I think it will shed a lot of light on how well we’ve been teaching and where we need to focus our attention.

Bless you TanyaBel! I’m sure the Lord is well pleased with your faithfulness to his teachings!