Question for DWs about SI swimsuit issue

[ChangingHeart]

However, what I am hearing from women who throw away the swimsuit magazine even before it reaches the husband’s hands is something a little different. Sure, they are interested in marital chastity and protecting their husbands. But that argument is also a veil for the wives’ insecurity. By refusing to let her husband see the magazine, she is essentially saying, "My husband will not look at any other women who are more beautiful, attractive, sexy, have better bodies,etc. than I do.

Tossing the magazine into the trash is these women’s only outlet for control.

How do I come up with this argument? I used to be like that. I would feel inferior, insecure, etc. if my husband, heck, even if my brother or dad made a comment about a pretty model. I’ve changed since then. I’ve looked at several issues of the swimsuit magazine and have found the women to be totally gorgeous without feeling jealous, insecure, etc. If these wives can acknowledge that throwing away the magazine is really more about themselves than the husband, they are making a step in the right direction.

Just some thoughts to consider.

These words are absolutely revolting!!! I can not possibly DISAGREE more vehemently! They sound like the classic textbook words of a wife who has an emotionally abusive husband who has successfully manipulated her into believing that his own lust problem is actually her insecurity. This sounds like a classic case of a man who is not willing to accept his sin, and therefore tries to twist it around as if his wife is the one with the problem, and has actually succeeded in convincing her of that.

Joya, make no mistake about it. You sound VERY insecure. In fact, you sound so insecure of receiving the label “insecure,” that you are willing to DEFEND your husband’s sin, just so that you won’t be labelled “insecure.” What an absolutely sick and twisted situation that sounds like, to me.

As a man, let me explain this to some of you women who just may not get it. When your husband views sexy pictures of other women, unless he just happens to come across them and immediately turns away from them, he is CHEATING ON YOU with his eyes, and in his heart. (See Matthew 5:28.)

When a man exchanges wedding vows with you, he is thereby surrendering his rights to seek any type of sexual pleasure (which men can receive through the eyes) from ANY other woman. In other words, HE DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to check out other women, whether in person, on television, or in magazines. He needs to be FULLY devoted to you. You, as a wife, on the other hand, have EVERY RIGHT to ban any erotic imagery from your home. In fact, as Catholic women, you don’t merely have the right, but you also have the OBLIGATION to do this. This is BY NO MEANS being insecure, but merely asserting your GOD GIVEN rights as a wife. That does NOT make you “bossy,” “controlling,” or any other negative label like that.

I applaud all you women who immediately throw that filth in the garbage. Not just for the sake of protecting your husband from the sin of lust, but your children as well. You don’t want your son seeing those things and thinking, “Well, dad objectifies women, and mom allows him to, so I guess it must be alright.” You don’t want your daughter seeing that and thinking, “I need to be really thin and wear provocative clothing in order to be the type of woman that a good man like my father would like.” You don’t want your daughter to grow up thinking that how she looks is all that matters.(as so many young ladies sadly seem to believe these days.)

Something neither needs to contain nudity nor penetration for it to be pornography. If it is designed to cause sexual arousal, then it is pornography. The Church BANS pornography. It is a sin. It has an adverse impact on marital intimacy.

Ladies, please realize, if your husband is looking at that stuff, he is NOT “admiring beauty.” He is LUSTING, and CHEATING ON YOU with his eyes, mind, and heart. He is VIOLATING his marital vows. He is JEOPARDIZING the future of your children. And he is SINNING against God.

Don’t bother arguing with me on this. If you believe otherwise, you’ve been manipulated by a smooth talking guy, and it is time to stand up to him, lovingly, but sternly.

You are your husband’s wife, his one and only, and it needs to stay that way.

 

[whatevergirl]

That sounds harsh, CH. You don’t know Joya at all, to make such scathing comments and name calling.

 

[ChangingHeart]

That sounds harsh, CH. You don’t know Joya at all, to make such scathing comments and name calling.

I know a thing or two about men who struggle with porn, and the arguments they try to use to try to twist their problems around and blame them on their wives. Joya has echoed the classic textbook sentiment of such men.

I challenge you to do any sort of research on pornography addiction and see if what I’m saying doesn’t ring true.

I am not making these commends to try to hurt or offend Joya. I’m trying to point out to her what I see as a major issue that she needs to address. I am trying to help her, and help you, and help any other wife in here who thinks that it is acceptable for her husband to view porn.

 

[whatevergirl]

I know a thing or two about men who struggle with porn, and the arguments they try to use to try to twist their problems around and blame them on their wives. Joya has echoed the classic textbook sentiment of such men.

I challenge you to do any sort of research on pornography addiction and see if what I’m saying doesn’t ring true.

I don’t disagree with you, CH. I have been enlightened a bit on this thread to my own perhaps apathy to my husband once viewing SI, although, it never became problematic for us. But, your words, CH. I have seen your tact before in other threads, so it surprised me that your words were so strong to Joya, that’s all.

 

[ChangingHeart]

I don’t disagree with you, CH. I have been enlightened a bit on this thread to my own perhaps apathy to my husband once viewing SI, although, it never became problematic for us. But, your words, CH. I have seen your tact before in other threads, so it surprised me that your words were so strong to Joya, that’s all.

Joya, I apologize to you and your husband if my words came across too harshly. People who lack momogamous hearts and then try to blame their significant other for being “insecure,” “jealous,” “posessive” “controlling,” etc. for objecting to their behavior is a very sensitive issue to me, which is why I don’t want to see you or anyone else have to suffer through that type of emotional abuse, and actually be made to feel that you are the one with the problem, when in reality the person who refuses to be totally devoted to you is the one with the problem.

I did not mean to come across harshly, and if I did, I apologize. I sometimes get very adamant when I see someone post something that I so thoroughly disagree with, and as a result I may become too aggressive in defending the point, but that doesn’t excuse it if my words were uncharitable, so again, I apologize.(yet stand behind the sentiment of what I said, wishing I had phrased it more eloquently.)

 

[whatevergirl]

That’s the diplomatic CH I have seen around here. I didn’t mean to pick on you, please know that. Your words hit home with, a bit. I guess sometimes as a wife, I don’t want to come across as a gestapo. Over time, my husband stopped ordering it…on his own. I believe in placing trust in our husbands, too, to do the chaste and moral thing, but I guess I don’t see the other side, sometimes. I think men and women, when called to change, need to find the will to do it on their own, in addition to some urging from people who love them. There’s something about changing on one’s own, that will make him/her stick with the change, than being forced to. My husband smokes on occasion–I loathe it, he knows it…and he has now all but quit. And he is sticking with it more, than the days when I nagged him to quit.

 

[TIME]

That’s the diplomatic CH I have seen around here. I didn’t mean to pick on you, please know that. Your words hit home with, a bit. I guess sometimes as a wife, I don’t want to come across as a gestapo. Over time, my husband stopped ordering it…on his own. I believe in placing trust in our husbands, too, to do the chaste and moral thing, but I guess I don’t see the other side, sometimes. I think men and women, when called to change, need to find the will to do it on their own, in addition to some urging from people who love them. There’s something about changing on one’s own, that will make him/her stick with the change, than being forced to. My husband smokes on occasion–I loathe it, he knows it…and he has now all but quit. And he is sticking with it more, than the days when I nagged him to quit.

Good Point WG, Their’s and old saying, “A person convinced against their will, is of the same opinion still.”

 

[whatevergirl]

Good Point WG, Their’s and old saying, “A person convinced against their will, is of the same opinion still.”

Oh really? That is interesting! I just know from experience, I can talk a blue streak about whatever it might be…but ultimately, a person’s will must align with God’s will for lasting change. Lasting change. Habits are not easily broken, at the urging of others. It will help…we should always do our very best to encourage others to live the best lives they can–ENCOURAGE. But, it’s best to see someone turn over a new leaf, and repent…of his/her own accord, than not given the opportunity to do so. Although, I can see why women throw the magazines away, too…I see all sides.

 

[shannyk]

I am a man I will say the the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition is why I do not subscribe to that particular rag.

It is porn. Plain and simple. While many are free to disagree with that, the photos are not intended to portray an athletic event. No, they present womens bodies as object of lust.

Ladies, if your husband is looking at those ladies, do you really think he is thinking about you? And later that evening, when he wants to be close, what images do you think he has in his mind?

The Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition is specifically intended to draw young men into the pit of the porn industry. Like all porn, it is altogether evil.

rpp thank you for speaking up.

For some reason, if I as a woman had said this, I would be seen as a …well you can fill in the blank.

This is one of the other aspect of this kind of porn causes; women pitted against women. The supposedly beautiful against the supposedly ordinary. It proposes such a narrow view of what is beautiful and desirable, that very few women can live up to.

 

[ChangingHeart]

Although, I can see why women throw the magazines away, too

Romans 14:13 Those magazines are stumbling blocks.

I think the biggest problem is that some women just don’t understand that foreplay for a man starts when he SEES something erotic. Women often can’t grasp that concept since it is not the case for them, and as a result they don’t understand how necessary it is to immediately get rid of anything that can cause her husband to get aroused over another woman, which IS a form of adultery. (Again, see Matthew 5:28.)

 

[ChangingHeart]

For some reason, if I as a woman had said this, I would be seen as a …well you can fill in the blank.

I’ll fill in the blank. woman with intelligence who understands men and actually knows what she is talking about.

 

[shannyk]

As a man, let me explain this to some of you women who just may not get it. When your husband views sexy pictures of other women, unless he just happens to come across them and immediately turns away from them, he is CHEATING ON YOU with his eyes, and in his heart. (See Matthew 5:28.)

When a man exchanges wedding vows with you, he is thereby surrendering his rights to seek any type of sexual pleasure (which men can receive through the eyes) from ANY other woman. In other words, HE DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to check out other women, whether in person, on television, or in magazines. He needs to be FULLY devoted to you. You, as a wife, on the other hand, have EVERY RIGHT to ban any erotic imagery from your home. In fact, as Catholic women, you don’t merely have the right, but you also have the OBLIGATION to do this. This is BY NO MEANS being insecure, but merely asserting your GOD GIVEN rights as a wife. That does NOT make you “bossy,” “controlling,” or any other negative label like that.

I applaud all you women who immediately throw that filth in the garbage. Not just for the sake of protecting your husband from the sin of lust, but your children as well. You don’t want your son seeing those things and thinking, “Well, dad objectifies women, and mom allows him to, so I guess it must be alright.” You don’t want your daughter seeing that and thinking, “I need to be really thin and wear provocative clothing in order to be the type of woman that a good man like my father would like.” You don’t want your daughter to grow up thinking that how she looks is all that matters.(as so many young ladies sadly seem to believe these days.)

Something neither needs to contain nudity nor penetration for it to be pornography. If it is designed to cause sexual arousal, then it is pornography. The Church BANS pornography. It is a sin. It has an adverse impact on marital intimacy.

Ladies, please realize, if your husband is looking at that stuff, he is NOT “admiring beauty.” He is LUSTING, and CHEATING ON YOU with his eyes, mind, and heart. He is VIOLATING his marital vows. He is JEOPARDIZING the future of your children. And he is SINNING against God.

Don’t bother arguing with me on this. If you believe otherwise, you’ve been manipulated by a smooth talking guy, and it is time to stand up to him, lovingly, but sternly.

You are your husband’s wife, his one and only, and it needs to stay that way.

CH thank you…your posts almost make me teary because I know this is true, but as a woman I can’t say it for fear of being a prudish witch that has ‘issues’.

I too get really upset when people are so wishy washy concerning this kind of stuff. I was raped at 15 by 3 men, one of whom it turns out had a long history (since age 9) of viewing porn; and I’m not talking about hardcore stuff. Stuff like SI, Playboy, even Victoria secret catalogues. His parents put it to ‘normal’ boy behavior. Try telling them now that viewing that stuff was ‘no big deal’…

I can’t also help but be appauled by people not thinking too much about the women IN these photos, and what they are doing to themselves. No one seems to care…really uncharitable IMHO.

 

[shannyk]

I’ll fill in the blank. woman with intelligence who understands men and actually knows what she is talking about.

CH thank you…I hope you are right

 

[shannyk]

A question to the wives who throw away their husband’s swimsuit issue of SI–

How would you feel if your husband threw away your property (magazines or otherwise) without even asking you?

First of all, my husband (may he RIP) wouldn’t ever purchase something with OUR money ( and yes when you are married all the money is OUR money) that had the kind of trash that SI pushes off as ‘reading material’.

Secondly, no one can rightfully own something that is sinful, and against God. You can’t own a perversion of someone’s image; which represents their entire person, body mind and soul. So, there is no problem in throwing such a thing away.

And, if I owned something that was equally trashy, it would be his obligation as my husband to throw it away.

It would be if he didn’t care and was complacent about it that would bother me.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

First of all, my husband (may he RIP) wouldn’t ever purchase something with OUR money ( and yes when you are married all the money is OUR money) that had the kind of trash that SI pushes off as ‘reading material’.

Secondly, no one can rightfully own something that is sinful, and against God. You can’t own a perversion of someone’s image; which represents their entire person, body mind and soul. So, there is no problem in throwing such a thing away.

And, if I owned something that was equally trashy, it would be his obligation as my husband to throw it away.

It would be if he didn’t care and was complacent about it that would bother me.

So you put blinders on when you go to the beach or pool?
(sorry I had to ask) or do the people that frequent the beach or pool in your area dress like this…

 

[shannyk]

So you put blinders on when you go to the beach or pool?
(sorry I had to ask) or do the people that frequent the beach or pool in your area dress like this…

What??? What does going to the beach/pool have to do with my post that you quoted???

Of course I see people at the pool (which I frequent very often) in bathing suits.

What does this have to do with SI swimsuit issue???

Encountering people in bathing suits at a pool where it’s expected and appropriate, where a man MAY inadvertently have to fend off lustfull feelings, is not the same as a magazine that intentionally uses sexual images of women to exploit male sexuality.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

What??? What does going to the beach/pool have to do with my post that you quoted???

Of course I see people at the pool (which I frequent very often) in bathing suits.

What does this have to do with SI swimsuit issue???

Encountering people in bathing suits at a pool where it’s expected and appropriate, where a man MAY inadvertently have to fend off lustfull feelings, is not the same as a magazine that intentionally uses sexual images of women to exploit male sexuality.

So if I have a book that has pics of works of art that show naked men and woman is that porn too?

I asked about the pool/beach because I was wondering if it is just the idea of woman is swim suits that bothers you or is it that they are in swimsuits in a magazine that bothers you.

As a side note, I do not think that the SI Swimsuit issue is porn.

 

[shannyk]

So if I have a book that has pics of works of art that show naked men and woman is that porn too?

It could be. It depends. I do think there is truly beautiful nude art (i.e.Michaelangelo), but to equate the Sistine Chapel with SI is…ridiculous.

Christopher West sums it up this way…from JP2 Theology of the Body…

In his theology of the body, John Paul wrote that **some works of art (such as the Sistine Chapel) portray the naked body in a manner that “allows one to concentrate in some way on the whole truth of man, on the dignity and beauty - even ‘suprasensual’ beauty - of his masculinity and femininity” **(TOB 63:5). In contrast to this kind of authentic art, pornographic portrayals of the body raise objection, the Pope insists, not because they expose the human body per se. The human body in itself always retains its inalienable dignity. Rather, pornography raises objections because of the way in which the human body is portrayed (see TOB 63:5). Pornographers portray the body with the explicit intention of arousing lust - or, as theologians would say, “concupiscence” - in the viewer. This was not the intention of Michelangelo.

He goes on to comment…

If you’ve ever been to Rome, you may have noticed the juxtaposition of the nude art within the Vatican and the nudity on the billboards just outside the Vatican. The difference vividly illustrates the distinction between pornography and a respectful portrayal of the body in art.

There is a difference. And, thanks to our pornified culture that no longer has an understanding or even a desire to understand God’s Truth of the beauty of the human person expressed in the human body, people don’t see that difference anymore

 

[ChangingHeart]

CH thank you…your posts almost make me teary because I know this is true, but as a woman I can’t say it for fear of being a prudish witch that has ‘issues’.

I too get really upset when people are so wishy washy concerning this kind of stuff. I was raped at 15 by 3 men, one of whom it turns out had a long history (since age 9) of viewing porn; and I’m not talking about hardcore stuff. Stuff like SI, Playboy, even Victoria secret catalogues. His parents put it to ‘normal’ boy behavior. Try telling them now that viewing that stuff was ‘no big deal’…

I can’t also help but be appauled by people not thinking too much about the women IN these photos, and what they are doing to themselves. No one seems to care…really uncharitable IMHO.

The truth shall set you free. It is sad if men are making you feel like you can’t speak up on this issue. Yet, it is even sadder if other WOMEN have been so manipulated by men that they make you feel as if you can’t speak up on this issue. It is yet furthermore deplorable that women on a CATHOLIC message board would try to make you feel bad, and are not willing to acknowledge the plain teaching of Jesus in Matthew 5:28.

Sorry to hear about your horrible experience at age 15. I had read somewhere that serial killer Ted Bundy started off as a porn addict, but then craved deeper and darker perversions, to the point where he felt compelled to act them out in real life. Granted, not all who view porn turn out like Ted Bundy, but this shows the dark pit of lust. What many MEN don’t understand is that lust is a bottomless pit. It is NEVER satisfied, but only craves more more more, I want, I want, I want.

Porn addicts will no longer view women as sisters in Christ, made in God’s image, loved by God, equal heirs to all of God’s promises. Instead, these men will view women strictly as objects to be used for their own pleasure. Objects don’t have feelings, and therefore, these sick and twisted men will care nothing about the permanent(during this lifetime) emotional damage they may cause to their victims. It’s all about selfishness. This selfishness will furthermore carry over into men’s interactions with other men.

While men are ultimately responsible for our own choices, and have no one but ourselves to blame for our own bad decisions, a loving wife should also strive to protect her husband from falling into that pit, by immediately disposing of any erotic imagery that could cause her husband(or sons) to stumble.

As for the women in these photos, they are victims of manipulative men. They are told that how they look is all that matters, the trashier the better, and that the more men who lust over them, the more they will fulfill their desire of being “popular.”

These women are not thinking about the reprecussions on their future children. Imagine the horror and humiliation that a teenage boy would have to go through, if one of his high school classmates was to suddenly pull out an old magazine and say, “Look, I have some sexy pictures of your mom!”

These young ladies have all been victimized, manipulated, and sexually exploited by men. How many MEN make money off of those photographs? It is sick and disturbing to think about that concept that a man can make money off of sexually provocative images of a woman. What right has he to do that? NONE!!!

Where are the feminists in all of this? Celebrating their “sexual freedom,” rather than standing up for their right to be recognized as humans with a soul and value as a person, not as an object.

ShannyK, you are correct. Don’t let these other women on this message board make you think otherwise for one second. Your thinking is in line with Scripture. (Matthew 5:28, Romans 14:13.)

I feel that some of the women on this message board need to read some testimonies of wives whose marriages have been destroyed by their husband’s porn addiction. Steve Wood has some resources in that area.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

]It could be. It depends. I do think there is truly beautiful nude art (i.e.Michaelangelo), but to equate the Sistine Chapel with SI is…ridiculous.

And see I was going to say that equating SI with playboy is silly.
They are two different things one is porn and one is not…but then that is just my humble opinion.

Just so I understand, I must be one of those woman brainwashed by men …
These are not porn;
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/ATA/5074W~David-Posters.jpg

Entschuldigung

Entschuldigung

hegel-system.de

But these are porn;
http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/070213/SI/knowles_2_l.jpg