Question- for Eastern Catholics

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TheTraditionalMan

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Hello brothers and sisters,

I have a bit of an explanation ahead so I’ll cut straight to the chase.
I was born, baptized and received communion as a Roman Catholic, however when I turned 12 we moved away from the area we visited the church in and my parents didn’t really catch up with the confirmation. My parents used to be very religious and my father had planned to become a priest at my age, I do not know what happened but I have always felt a spiritual and religious connection.

My problem now is that I do not feel very connected to the Latin Rite, as I find it too tolerant and non traditional. Questions of purity, fasting and other areas are extremely important to me, as I also believe women should dress modestly in Church and maybe even cover their hair. During lent, I have been observing the traditional Maronite fasting rules of fasting from 0-12, as well as abstinence from meat, fish or any dairy products during the week.

I am also hoping to marry an Eastern Catholic or Orthodox woman. Now my first concern is, since I am not confirmed, would I be able to get confirmed in an Eastern Catholic church and thereby become Eastern Catholic? I have read into the topic of changing your Rite and it seems very complicated so I am not sure if it is necessary, however I would like to raise my children according to Eastern Catholic traditions.

My second concern is, I do not know which EC Church is the most suitable for me. I live in London, which allows me to have all parishes very close to me. I would like to take the most traditional route, as well as ideally having liturgy in Aramaic. The churches I plan on visiting here are the Maronite, Melkite, Chaldean and Assyrian Church. I personally have great respect for the Ethiopian and Eritrean Church, however in these I would be the odd one out as I look very North African/Arab and they are very homogenous Churches. The Alexandrian Rite also offers the Coptic Catholic Church, which I deeply admire, however it isn’t found anywhere here.

I don’t know any Christians around here and the LC Christians I have met will not be of any help for me, as they just confirmed my current mindset with their sympathy for issues such as Homosexuality and Purity before marriage. I know these are their personal views, however these are the views one is most likely to find amongst the LC community, and I believe that a strong community in believers is important.

Thank you for any help, I hope everyone has a blessed Lent and peace be upon everyone
 
Oh and sorry I forgot to include something; should/can you even fast according to a different rite? I am fasting according to Maronite rules but under canon law I am still a Roman Catholic.
 
As a Roman Catholic you can fast however you please as long as you meet the requirements posed by your bishop, and if you live in London I would imagine there are very traditional Latin rite churches there that are still in union with Rome. There are also eastern churches still in union with Rome as well. Remember before you change churches that the most important thing is “what is true” not “what I personally feel the most connected to.” Perhaps if you don’t like the lack of observance of traditions in the West God may be calling you to change His church and bring reverence back into the ancient traditions! You’re not the only Roman Catholic in this boat so you really could start a movement. I will say a prayer for you so that you may follow Christ above all things and keep him at the center of your heart no matter what. God bless you fellow member of the Body of Christ!
 
I think you’ll find you can absolutely fast according to the Eastern Rite. I’m a traditional Western Catholic (I prefer the Latin Mass) and I generally follow the ideas of the Eastern fast. (i.e. I fast during Advent and Lent)
I don’t fast vegan, but pescetarian, though. Just be aware if you fast on a Western holy day of obligation, that might be wrong. But otherwisely you should be good. Prayers and Mass/ Divine Liturgy is of course free for all (and are equally Catholic) though you should of course always try to follow local custom (don’t be that Eastern Catholic who doesn’t kneel when visiting at a Western Mass).
Finally I’d say: about the wife situation, a lot of good, “orthodox”/ traditional (and modestly dressed) young women go to the traditional Latin Mass. So even if you’ve got your heart set on the Eastern Catholic side of things, you can always try to “convert” a woman from your local TLM group. You have my prayers.
 
TheMortenBay said:
doesn’t kneel when visiting at a Western Mass
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Yes, or don’t be the Latin Catholic who insists on kneeling at an Eastern Divine Liturgy, which, in my experience, is far more common than Eastern Catholics refusing to kneel at a Roman Mass.
 
Canonically you are a Latin Catholic. Perhaps you should complete your sacraments of initiation by getting confirmed in the Latin Catholic Church. Whatever your personal feelings, confirmation in the Latin Church is valid.

You can then make one of two choices. First, you can do nothing about your canonical status and remain in the Latin Church. You could go to any Catholic church of your choice, and that would include all the Eastern Catholic churches.

Secondly, you could contact the priest of the Latin parish in which you live or the one in which you worship and ask him about changing canonical churches. He will have to take the matter to the diocese, which as you live in London could be Brentwood, Southwark or Westminster. Do not expect this process to happen quickly.

One thing you said in your opening post gives me reservations. You do not say enough or expand on your point for me to form an opinion or make a judgement. It was your comments about the Ethiopian Church. Your ethnic heritage should not matter. It was enough to give me pause to wonder if what you are considering is something you are doing for the right reasons.

You may well find people in the Latin Catholic Church who thinks homosexuality should be accepted, that sex prior to marriage should be allowed, that contraception is OK, that divorced and re-married Catholics who did not receive an annulment should be able to receive communion, etc. However, remember those opinions are contrary to the teachings of the Church. Have you considered the possibility of working to change people’s minds. Rather than leave the ship why not help to pilot it back onto the right course.
 
TheTraditionalMan said:
Now my first concern is, since I am not confirmed, would I be able to get confirmed in an Eastern Catholic church and thereby become Eastern Catholic?
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You will need to be chrismated (confirmed) for sure. It is one of the sacraments of initiation. There is not need to switch rites but if you feel called to do so that would be a great thing for you, especially if you have begun living an eastern spiritual life.
TheTraditionalMan said:
I have read into the topic of changing your Rite and it seems very complicated so I am not sure if it is necessary, however I would like to raise my children according to Eastern Catholic traditions.
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Switching rites is not to complicated. Attend an eastern Catholic Church and live the life of the eastern church. When you priest sees that you are ready you can start the process. I would definitely switch rites for your future children’s sake.
TheTraditionalMan said:
The churches I plan on visiting here are the Maronite, Melkite, Chaldean and Assyrian Church.
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As a Byzantine Catholic myself I am very partial to the Melkites. They are definitely the more traditional of the eastern Catholic Churches and by far the least latinized.

Good luck!

ZP
 
Thank you so much everyone for your help!
TomH1, I realise that might have sounded a bit silly, however I’ve been to churches in Germany where my family and I were faced with hostility by others and ever since I’ve been a bit nervous to go churches I’m not a part of.

The whole rite issue is a personal cause, I know it was weirdly formulated in here but this is something that has really kept me up for nights, which is why I then decided to ask everyone in the forum.

You all do have valid points about bringing the tradition back to the Roman Catholic community and I have been considering something like this for a long time, this is the same thing my father tells me. I just feel like all the new guidelines, like the new fasting rules for Lent for example, make the whole thing half hearted in a way. It is the churches fault that people are leaving and many young people are even joining other religions in search of tradition, that they feel they aren’t getting in churches. This is quite frankly a shame. I think the bombardment of new values that are being forced upon today’s society is what is bringing a lot of young people back to the roots.

Of course the most important part is the actual belief, as I do not believe you will be categorised by God. My concerns were only spiritual and I found great respect for old values, especially the fact that church is not treated casually and seen with more respect, which can be observed for example in the Alexandrian Rite, where visitors take their shoes off because it is a place of worship, etc.

Maybe my heart is telling me to go towards the Eastern Rite, as people I have engaged with from the Western Rite have always reacted negatively towards my views, often even calling me things such as “islamic”, which made me feel more connected to the Eastern point of view. Like you have mentioned, this isn’t the true teaching of our church, however it is the attitude that the Western church has allowed people to gain over time by the loosening of guidelines and traditions. Maybe this is something I should work on trying to bring back. In my parents’ home country, which is predominantly Roman Catholic, these values are still important but it has become more of a cultural thing rather than people actually doing it for their beliefs. The most absurd part is that here in Western European nations, people often mention that these values are due to the Islamic influence on the area, which is ironic in so many ways. The Western European countries state they are based on Christian values, however when another European society functions on the traditional Christian values, they are called Islamic.

I think the best step of action now is to consult the Catholic society in my university and see if anyone else shares thoughts that are like mine. As a group we can do more than I would be able to do alone.

Thank you so much everyone for your help and prayers, I will make sure to include you in my prayers as well. You have all helped me a lot and I’m glad I found this forum to realise that my religion is still alive and kicking, something I often felt I was alone with.
 
You should be confirmed as soon as you can. The spiritual Gilts of the Holy Spirit will help you discern.

You are a Latin Catholic who is not fully initiated, canonically speaking.

You shouldn’t switch rites without experiencing the new rite for a period of time, at least a year, I would suggest.

Switching rites before marriage and children would make your offspring Eastern (it follows the rite of the father).

NB: there is no switching back, it’s a one time thing.

Deacon Christopher
 
Diaconia said:
NB: there is no switching back, it’s a one time thing.
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That’s a common misconception. While a request to change ritual Churches a second time would likely not be granted, there is no prohibition in Canon Law, and there are some limited circumstances in swift switching back is automatically permitted.
 
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What limited circumstances? Like a rash decision?

That is specifically why one needs to take time (I suggested a year above) before changing churches.

I have spoken to both Latin and Eastern bishops on this question - both said “NO,” it’s a one-time thing.

I am very interested to learn about switching back and forth quickly and automatically.

Deacon Christopher
 
I have been told by someone with very good knowledge of Canon Law that there is no provision in current Canon Law that bars bishops from granting a second transfer of ritual church. That persoI have been told by someone with very good knowledge of Canon Law that there is no provision in current Canon Law that bars bishops from granting a second transfer of ritual church. That person also said that as a practical matter, a second request will not be granted. However, there are exceptions. For example, if a woman marries a man from a different ritual church and changes ritual churches at the time of marriage, she may automatically switch back to her previous ritual church is she is widowed. On the whole, I entirely agree with your advice that such a decision should be made only with great care, because, realistically, one is very unlikely to be permitted to switch back.n also said that as a practical matter, a second request will not be granted. However, there are exceptions. For example, if a woman marries a man from a different ritual church and changes ritual churches at the time of marriage, she may automatically switch back to her previous ritual church is she is widowed. On the whole, I entirely agree with your advice that such a decision should be made only with great care, because, realistically, one is very unlikely to be permitted to switch back.
 
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