Question for EC and EOs

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Paul_theApostle

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What do you think about the NO Mass?

Do you Orthodox believe these NO Masses with guitars are proof that the RC has lost tradition and truth and the right way?

In the EO church ,is the liturgy allowed to be just read like the NO Masses are read by the priest?

If a Catholic is disatisfied with Western liturgies ,is going to an Eastern Catholic church the answer? or would it be better to jump ship comnpletely and get off this guitar Mass ship and come to Orthodoxy?
 
What do you think about the NO Mass?

Do you Orthodox believe these NO Masses with guitars are proof that the RC has lost tradition and truth and the right way?

In the EO church ,is the liturgy allowed to be just read like the NO Masses are read by the priest?

If a Catholic is disatisfied with Western liturgies ,is going to an Eastern Catholic church the answer? or would it be better to jump ship comnpletely and get off this guitar Mass ship and come to Orthodoxy?
I can’t speak for the Orthodox, but I know there are many ECs who have absolutely no problems with Ordinary Form of the Mass, when properly celebrated. The thing is, guitars and bad music in general, plus many other things that go on in the Ordinary Form, are not actually mandated by Rome, and in many cases are liturgical abuses that have become widespread. The Pope and bishops can only do so much in eradicating abuse from the Mass. Ultimately the responsibility falls to the parish priests and those on the “liturgy committee” to put an end to liturgical abuses. I believe that you will see many of these abuses corrected with the next couple of generations of priests currently studying in seminary.

Jumping ship and becoming Eastern Catholic or Eastern Orthodox is never the answer. One ought not to become Eastern Catholic or Orthodox because one doesn’t like the problems that the West is facing. You will find just as many problems in the East as in the West, and in some cases those problems are even more severe. Rather, one ought to become Eastern Catholic or Orthodox because one loves the theology, spirituality, discipline, liturgy, etc. of the East. Check out this letter (I just came across it today):

sainteliaschurch.blogspot.com/2012/02/letter-to-new-convert.html
 
What do you think about the NO Mass?

Do you Orthodox believe these NO Masses with guitars are proof that the RC has lost tradition and truth and the right way?

In the EO church ,is the liturgy allowed to be just read like the NO Masses are read by the priest?

If a Catholic is disatisfied with Western liturgies ,is going to an Eastern Catholic church the answer? or would it be better to jump ship comnpletely and get off this guitar Mass ship and come to Orthodoxy?
The liturgy was one of the main reasons I became Orthodox.

The NO is: agaisnt tradition, un-patristic, artificial, Protestant. It hurts the soul.
It makes the SSPX look good, etc.

But this is just my opinion.
 
The liturgy was one of the main reasons I became Orthodox.

The NO is: agaisnt tradition, un-patristic, artificial, Protestant. It hurts the soul.
It makes the SSPX look good, etc.

But this is just my opinion.
Wow! really? I don’t think it’s completely against tradition…I think part of the goal was to go back to a more ancient way of celebrating the liturgy(I think the old Roman rite was the goal…or at least a big influence)…to get the laity involved more. I’m going to guess that perhaps you have some issue with the papacy as well since you became Orthodox and not Eastern Catholic. Do you find the Eastern mindset more suited to your spirituality? I myself, sit on the fence…I like both the West and the East.

I’m not a huge fan of the way most OF liturgies are done here in the US but there are some which are done incredibly reverently! There are also some that make me want to pull my hair out…

To be honest, Divine Liturgy really reminds me of the OF. There’s much more verbal participation of the laity. I attend the EF when we don’t have DL (our Mission is just getting started) as I LOVE the reverence there and unfortunately can’t find a Sunday OF Mass in our city that is without abuses and irreverence. I love the EF for what it is and I love DL for what it is as well…and when the OF is done well, I love it for what it is too lol!
 
What do you think about the NO Mass?
I love it.
Do you Orthodox believe these NO Masses with guitars are proof that the RC has lost tradition and truth and the right way?
Can’t speak for the Orthodox but from what I understand of the Great Schism, they believe the Roman Church has veered away from the path of Orthodox long before even the Tridentine Mass came into being.
In the EO church ,is the liturgy allowed to be just read like the NO Masses are read by the priest?
Not sure about the EO, but in the EC it is. For our parish, it comes down to the ability of those present to sing the hymns. On weekdays we would recite the Litanies but would sing/chant the important parts like the Trisagion, Cherubic Hymn and Anaphora.
If a Catholic is disatisfied with Western liturgies ,is going to an Eastern Catholic church the answer?
My opinion on this is “no”. The Eastern Churches have their own praxis. If you think something is missing in the West, you will not find it in the East. While many are attracted to the Eastern Liturgy, there are more facets to the faith than just the Liturgy. Are you ready to give up your Western understanding of the faith and embrace the Eastern way? Because if not, you will be come confused, and you will feel out of place again.
or would it be better to jump ship comnpletely and get off this guitar Mass ship and come to Orthodoxy?
Same with the above. Because the East is a completely different praxis, what you are looking for in the West will not be in the East.

But that is my opinion. Give it a try and see for yourself.
 
I’ve been to Byzantne divine liturgies and Tridentine Extraordinary Form high masses - and I love both - but some of the most awe inspiring, beautiful, uplifting liturgies I’ve experienced were Ordinary Form (the eso called “Novus Ordo”) masses celebrated the way the council fathers intended! I spent Holy Week 2009 in Rome - and when the Holy Father celebrates the Ordinary Form of the mass you have liberal use of Latin, chant, polyphony, and incense… it all comes down to how the OF is celebrated - there is nothing intrinsicaly irreverent about it.
 
But that is my opinion. Give it a try and see for yourself.
I became and went to EO for 15 years…

have come back to RC but cant get a grip of the NO especially after being at so many DLs

the Russian Caths,nearby have a big new church,i may go to a few Russian liturgies again

I think in some RC churches such as in Cathedrals im pretty much ok with the Mass

but my local parish where i was baptised/confirmed and which my family has always gone does a NO mass that im not very content with

as ive said the church is bare and im used to Eastern churches fully adorned with color and splendour and the chanting

i dont really know to say the truth whether the communion in th NO mass or at my local church is really the Body of Christ

im full of doubt over this style of Mass…

i cant help it…
 
What do you think about the NO Mass?
I think it is fine and don’t have much of an opinion about it.
If a Catholic is disatisfied with Western liturgies ,is going to an Eastern Catholic church the answer? or would it be better to jump ship comnpletely and get off this guitar Mass ship and come to Orthodoxy?
Neither. The East has its own problems. Jumping blindly out of the frying pan into the fire is not a wise move when your salvation is on the line. Considering doing so because of a musical instrument tells me there’s a lot of room for growth in your own tradition before you give it up as lost without hope. Seek out the very best your church offers and only when you’ve had that and it isn’t enough should you start wondering if maybe there’s more.
 
I became and went to EO for 15 years…

have come back to RC but cant get a grip of the NO especially after being at so many DLs

the Russian Caths,nearby have a big new church,i may go to a few Russian liturgies again

I think in some RC churches such as in Cathedrals im pretty much ok with the Mass

but my local parish where i was baptised/confirmed and which my family has always gone does a NO mass that im not very content with

as ive said the church is bare and im used to Eastern churches fully adorned with color and splendour and the chanting

i dont really know to say the truth whether the communion in th NO mass or at my local church is really the Body of Christ

im full of doubt over this style of Mass…

i cant help it…
if you were Russian Orthodox and came into communion with Rome, then you are technically a Russian Catholic NOT a Roman Catholic. Go to the Russian Catholic Church. But also, my advice is to educate yourself on the OF…the whys and hows…unfortunately it just isn’t’ done correctly here. well, that has been my experience 😦

If I may ask, why did you become Catholic?
 
if you were Russian Orthodox and came into communion with Rome, then you are technically a Russian Catholic NOT a Roman Catholic. Go to the Russian Catholic Church. But also, my advice is to educate yourself on the OF…the whys and hows…unfortunately it just isn’t’ done correctly here. well, that has been my experience 😦

If I may ask, why did you become Catholic?
I think he is originally RC, then RO, then RC again. So that is correct, if one canonically is inscribed to a particular Church then it doesn’t matter what Orthodox jurisdiction one jumps into, that person returns to the Church he/she belongs to in the Catholic Church when he/she returns.
 
I think he is originally RC, then RO, then RC again. So that is correct, if one canonically is inscribed to a particular Church then it doesn’t matter what Orthodox jurisdiction one jumps into, that person returns to the Church he/she belongs to in the Catholic Church when he/she returns.
yes, you are correct :o I deleted my post after I realized that lol! I figured that was the case.

In any case, OP, I still think you should just go to the Russian Catholic Cathedral and stay there…after a year you should transfer officially. However you do need to reconcile yourself to what the Latin Church has done with it’s liturgy…otherwise you might never truly be at peace.
 
I wrote that i ‘have come back’ to RC…

was born into RC,left as a teenager for EO

I was never a regular or active RC

why i came back?

mostly personal stuff i guess between me and EO people and wanting to get more involved with my roots,and wanting to discover RC more like i never had

i think im mainly disatisfied with my local parish

you cant blame me for going there ,i live almost next door to it,and my family goes there and its always been my church,but too much of the Divine liturgy is in me
 
I wrote that i ‘have come back’ to RC…

was born into RC,left as a teenager for EO

I was never a regular or active RC

why i came back?

mostly personal stuff i guess between me and EO people and wanting to get more involved with my roots,and wanting to discover RC more like i never had

i think im mainly disatisfied with my local parish

you cant blame me for going there ,i live almost next door to it,and my family goes there and its always been my church,but too much of the Divine liturgy is in me
I live almost next door to an RC parish as well yet drive 15 minutes to the Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral 😉
 
I wrote that i ‘have come back’ to RC…

was born into RC,left as a teenager for EO

I was never a regular or active RC

why i came back?

mostly personal stuff i guess between me and EO people and wanting to get more involved with my roots,and wanting to discover RC more like i never had
Have you tried an EF church? are there any around?

i think im mainly disatisfied with my local parish

I’ve experienced this as well. I’ve found that the answer was to visit all the churches in the surrounding area…lol…sounds silly but honestly a good spiritual home can do wonders!

you cant blame me for going there ,i live almost next door to it,and my family goes there and its always been my church,but too much of the Divine liturgy is in me

I certainly don’t blame you. I stuck with our parish for years…I received all my Sacraments there (marriage included). I have been involved in our Ukrainian Catholic Mission for 3 years. I am just realizing that is is going to take MUCH longer than I had hoped to get up and running well…and I have my children to think of (1st Communion…sigh don’t get me started on that lol!) so we started attending the local EF parish. We feel at home there while we are waiting for our Mission to take off (God willing!).
 
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Angel_Gabriel:
Ive been once to the EF,its far away though and its not easy to get down there always
but id like to experience it more than what i have ,im always thinking about going to Mass there,but havnt put it into practice

I did find a great parish around here,and there were lots of young people and activities/events
with a great Priest who was popular

he has left the parish and i havnt gone anymore there

You know with the EF ,do those parishes do the same with First communion ,or do they instead give communion to babies?

cheers
 
Ive been once to the EF,its far away though and its not easy to get down there always
but id like to experience it more than what i have ,im always thinking about going to Mass there,but havnt put it into practice

I did find a great parish around here,and there were lots of young people and activities/events
with a great Priest who was popular

he has left the parish and i havnt gone anymore there

You know with the EF ,do those parishes do the same with First communion ,or do they instead give communion to babies?

cheers
All Latin Churches I’ve encountered or have read of practice First Communion…this includes EF parishes. I am not a fan of the practice… and I dislike even more the delaying of Confirmation till 8th or 12th grade!(at least in my diocese it is 8th grade)

I do know that in my diocese, prior to Vatican 2, it was the norm to confirm children prior to their First Communion. So that a child would be baptized as an infant and then around age 8 would be confirmed receive the Sacrament of Confession and then finally receive First Communion.
 
All Latin Churches I’ve encountered or have read of practice First Communion…this includes EF parishes. I am not a fan of the practice… and I dislike even more the delaying of Confirmation till 8th or 12th grade!(at least in my diocese it is 8th grade)

I do know that in my diocese, prior to Vatican 2, it was the norm to confirm children prior to their First Communion. So that a child would be baptized as an infant and then around age 8 would be confirmed receive the Sacrament of Confession and then finally receive First Communion.
The Roman Catholic diocese to my east confirms all their children around age 7 then has them receive the Eucharist around age 8. I don’t understand the justification for making a baptised and confirmed child wait to receive the Eucharist when they’re already confessing and needing the spiritual nourishment, but that’s what they do. The priests outside that diocese who do it in that order are fewer and further between, but they’re around.
 
The Roman Catholic diocese to my east confirms all their children around age 7 then has them receive the Eucharist around age 8. I don’t understand the justification for making a baptised and confirmed child wait to receive the Eucharist when they’re already confessing and needing the spiritual nourishment, but that’s what they do. The priests outside that diocese who do it in that order are fewer and further between, but they’re around.
Waiting is not in conformance with what Pope Pius X said in QUAM SINGULARI in 1910:

“In accord with this Decree of the Lateran Council, still in effect, the faithful are obliged, as soon as they arrive at the years of discretion, to receive the Sacraments of Penance and Holy Eucharist at least once a year.”

papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10quam.htm

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2010/08/10/cardinal-suggests-lowering-age-of-first-holy-communion/
 
What do you think about the NO Mass?
When I was young we still had the Tridentine Mass (I suppose I had attended between 600 and 700 Latin Masses and ‘mixed’ Masses), I was a teenager by the time all the turmoil of changing the liturgy was finished in my parish, and I can remember it being kind of rough.

However as a young adult I accomodated to it fairly well and raised all of my children in it. I can remember when the SSPX and other small groups were getting started in the Chicago area, and I went for a look-see, mostly curious. It was completely foreign to my children and they reacted with confusion so I didn’t force it on them and I forgot about it.

Later I started to experience a type of spiritual dryness (I didn’t associate that with the form of liturgy), and I realized had a yearning for a deeper spirituality. I became more involved in other devotions, like the LOTH. I was also a big advocate of (and hoper for) Eucharistic Adoration but it wasn’t convenient or popular yet, my parish was not going to do it so it required traveling long distances to remote parishes as the trend was just beginning.

Eventually (much later) I got involved with a local Abbey and the oblate program, which kept me very active with a bunch of laypeople and professed monastics who became friends to me … around the same time I started visiting Eastern Catholic parishes of every type. These were what I called ‘pilgrimages’. The reason I chose the particular Abbey was that it had a reputation for ecumenical involvement (in the past) and had once been a bi-ritual house, a home for a lot of refugee Eastern Catholic monks from communist eastern Europe.

Most of the EC parishes were big disappointments for a variety of reasons, but I really enjoyed speaking to the priests I visited. There was one Bielorussian mission in Chicago I loved, and I made a few friends there (the congregation was less than twenty by that time)Eventually I came across a Ruthenian parish with a great pastor, a vibrant congregation and a well served liturgy, and I was hooked! When people would ask me what it was like all I could say would be “glorious!”.

I joined the choir (we actually had four different thematic choirs at the time and I was in three of them) and did a lot of volunteer work.

I had multiple opportunities to attend Mass in Latin Catholic church parishes (taking my mother to Mass, etc.) as well as at the Abbey. Over time I found it all to be very unsatisfactory. I was not expecting that, I didn’t realize until then how dull it actually was. I guess the liturgy of St John Chrysostom as it was served in the Bielorussian mission and the Ruthenian parish spoiled me.
Do you Orthodox believe these NO Masses with guitars are proof that the RC has lost tradition and truth and the right way?
No. I think it is evidence of poor management.

It is a systemic problem.
If a Catholic is disatisfied with Western liturgies ,is going to an Eastern Catholic church the answer? or would it be better to jump ship comnpletely and get off this guitar Mass ship and come to Orthodoxy?
I never recommend it.

A person should move toward Eastern Christianity based on it’s own merits. Running away from something is not a good idea.
 
I never recommend it.

A person should move toward Eastern Christianity based on it’s own merits. Running away from something is not a good idea.
Agreed, as do most Orthodox I have talked to…most of whom are also converts. Accepting something as true only because another appears to be false is not good, and I would not be surprised if it is brought up at judgement, even if that truth were objectively true.

And, I would hesitate to refer to the Mass as “guitar Mass”. It appears one other thread you’ve started got deleted, probably for something along those lines (or for a reply I made).
 
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