Question for EC and EOs

[ConstantineTG]

When I was young we still had the Tridentine Mass (I suppose I had attended between 600 and 700 Latin Masses and ‘mixed’ Masses), I was a teenager by the time all the turmoil of changing the liturgy was finished in my parish, and I can remember it being kind of rough.

However as a young adult I accomodated to it fairly well and raised all of my children in it. I can remember when the SSPX and other small groups were getting started in the Chicago area, and I went for a look-see, mostly curious. It was completely foreign to my children and they reacted with confusion so I didn’t force it on them and I forgot about it.

Later I started to experience a type of spiritual dryness (I didn’t associate that with the form of liturgy), and I realized had a yearning for a deeper spirituality. I became more involved in other devotions, like the LOTH. I was also a big advocate of (and hoper for) Eucharistic Adoration but it wasn’t convenient or popular yet, my parish was not going to do it so it required traveling long distances to remote parishes as the trend was just beginning.

Eventually (much later) I got involved with a local Abbey and the oblate program, which kept me very active with a bunch of laypeople and professed monastics who became friends to me … around the same time I started visiting Eastern Catholic parishes of every type. These were what I called ‘pilgrimages’. The reason I chose the particular Abbey was that it had a reputation for ecumenical involvement (in the past) and had once been a bi-ritual house, a home for a lot of refugee Eastern Catholic monks from communist eastern Europe.

Most of the EC parishes were big disappointments for a variety of reasons, but I really enjoyed speaking to the priests I visited. There was one Bielorussian mission in Chicago I loved, and I made a few friends there (the congregation was less than twenty by that time)Eventually I came across a Ruthenian parish with a great pastor, a vibrant congregation and a well served liturgy, and I was hooked! When people would ask me what it was like all I could say would be “glorious!”.

I joined the choir (we actually had four different thematic choirs at the time and I was in three of them) and did a lot of volunteer work.

I had multiple opportunities to attend Mass in Latin Catholic church parishes (taking my mother to Mass, etc.) as well as at the Abbey. Over time I found it all to be very unsatisfactory. I was not expecting that, I didn’t realize until then how dull it actually was. I guess the liturgy of St John Chrysostom as it was served in the Bielorussian mission and the Ruthenian parish spoiled me.

No. I think it is evidence of poor management.

It is a systemic problem.

I never recommend it.

A person should move toward Eastern Christianity based on it’s own merits. Running away from something is not a good idea.

I’m glad Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox agree on this. The Eastern Churches are not refugee camps for disillusioned Roman Catholics.

When I transferred, I wasn’t against anything in the RC Church. I just fell in love with the Eastern Liturgy, and eventually her spirituality. I did have that experience of spiritual dryness, but its mainly because our priest who was such an excellent teacher was reassigned by the diocese. The replacement priest just couldn’t live up in my own personal opinion (but he was a better people person and parishioners love him) so I felt spiritually dry. I tried the FSSP parish and Traditional Catholicism, just wasn’t for me. I went to the UGCC Cathedral for a visit. Decided to stay.

 

[Mickey]

What do you think about the NO Mass?

Ouch.

Do you Orthodox believe these NO Masses with guitars are proof that the RC has lost tradition and truth and the right way?

I don’t know about losing tradition and truth…but something went askew.

If a Catholic is disatisfied with Western liturgies ,is going to an Eastern Catholic church the answer? or would it be better to jump ship comnpletely and get off this guitar Mass ship and come to Orthodoxy?

My journey to Holy Orthodoxy was inspired by theology, Liturgy, differences in doctrinal teaching, spirituality, etc.

 

[Peter_J]

I never recommend it.

A person should move toward Eastern Christianity based on it’s own merits. Running away from something is not a good idea.

I agree, but to be fair to *some *of those who appear to be running away from something, I should point out that for many RCs, breaking off communion with Rome is unthinkable, so options can be pretty limited. Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, Lutheranism, Methodism, etc etc can be crossed off the list immediately, so the only options are the Latin Catholic Church and the Eastern Catholic Churches.

 

[MarkosC]

To hit the OP

What do you think about the NO Mass?

Grew up with both, served and sung Gregorian Chant at both at least dozens of times. AFAIC the only difference inherent to the Mass is that one uses the 1970 vs. the 1962 Missale Romanum, one uses the current GIRM, and that the Graduale Romanum is somewhat different.

Since you asked what I thought, I think the Latin in the original Roman Canon is more natural than the IMO rather self-conscious Latin of the other Eucharistic prayers in the 1970 missal (and I’ve heard each of the four primary ones of that missal in Latin). I’m not too concerned about moving the “mysterium fidei” and the popular response, though I’m not a big fan of it. I think the 1970 missal is far better if the priest “faces the people” during the Eucharistic prayer (which I am told can/has been done with the 1962 missal but I’ve never seen). I also like the greater number of readings, the responsorial psalm, and the greater array of collects and the like in the 1970 missal (the latter I’m told are often derived from pre-Tridentine missals that are now out of use). I also I think doing the readings from the Vulgate and re-doing them in English before the homily is ridiculous unless at least 20% of the average parishioners can easily understand the Latin.

Of course, in North American parishes one can find all kinds of outrages (and more often places where people don’t really understand what they’re doing in worship, to say nothing of what they should be doing), due to people not internalizing/enforcing the standards for worship of the Latin liturgy. But I personally don’t think this is a reason to dump the Latin Church. I believe that, thankfully, God hears our prayers even if we don’t know what we’re doing when we ask them (which only happens because we don’t understand our spiritual inheritance), and I believe He gives us all what’s best for us regardless of how well we pray.

Still, I do believe that understanding what/why we’re praying and trying to do so well is critical for our spiritual growth.

If a Catholic is disatisfied with Western liturgies ,is going to an Eastern Catholic church the answer? or would it be better to jump ship comnpletely and get off this guitar Mass ship and come to Orthodoxy?

I don’t believe so. One should be registered to their local parish (not that one really has a choice!) and try to participate in that parish, and I personally think one should also participate (especially, say, daily Mass or non-Mass events) in other parishes at least on occasion. By spending time doing this (and by praying over it), one should find a spiritual father, spiritual brethren, and a place to spiritually call home. I pray that you find such a place.

By all means try an Eastern liturgy if you like. Given your background you may be quite comfortable there. I wouldn’t automatically assume, however, that you will be more satisfied there or that they will necessarily “perform” (and I choose that word deliberately) the liturgy better there.