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DharmaBum
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Seems odd to me that Anglicans, even “left leaning” ones, would have this type of reaction. I’ve certainly never experienced comments such as this.
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jupiter2
Guest
Dharma Bum, could you clarify what you mean? The further liberal/left-leaning mainline denominations in general never discuss the RCC. At least speaking for myself, such comments as alluded to come from various Calvinist related denominations (more to the right or are “far right”). This included the “non-denominational” churches perhaps not as often, but such reaction to the RCC was there and was often very subtle.
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Selah_KY
Guest
I think it’s wonderful that you are able to talk about faith at work! My last workplace was like that and it made the days more bearable. Granted, we were quite a motley crew with everything from Catholic to non-denominational, so no Catholic bashing. In fact, the work force was predominantly Polish Catholic, and the cafeteria never served meat on Fridays!
For about the last five years, I’ve been working VERY hard at not being defensive about denomination, too. That takes daily prayer and asking for forgiveness way too often… it doesn’t bother me when people question my faith, but when they start attacking my kids the mama bear comes out in full force.
I wish that was the case with people I know. There has been quite an exodus from our old church to the EOC and RCC, and the attitude has been “good riddance”, “they” are the people who are causing all the trouble. “If you don’t like it here, you can leave.” :’( (eg: Anyone who prefers the traditional liturgy is accused of worshiping liturgy, but the contemporary music crowd are never accused of worshiping modernism.)
I think it’s awesome that you did that! Years and years and years ago, we were having trouble settling on a good LCMS church near us. I mentioned our church woes to several friends, not even mentioning denomination, and the ONLY person who asked us to come to church with them was our Catholic neighbor. Her family definitely were part of my family’s conversion (my older kiddos and hers were close friends) even though we didn’t take her up on the offer. I still get warm fuzzies remembering our conversations.
From living in this culture for a decade, I finally learned to just answer with the name of my church with no other identifying info. LOL! I suppose if our parish was Sacred Heart or Immaculate Conception it would be more obvious, but we go to a generic St. NameofOldSaint.
For about the last five years, I’ve been working VERY hard at not being defensive about denomination, too. That takes daily prayer and asking for forgiveness way too often… it doesn’t bother me when people question my faith, but when they start attacking my kids the mama bear comes out in full force.
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DharmaBum
Guest
Jupiter, upon reading my post again I see that it might not have been clear. My apologies. In an earlier post the OP had indicated that the attitudes to which he was referring were not from Lutherans, but from nondenominational and “left leaning” Anglicans. I have my doubts about this, as your post would seem to indicate you would share. Thank you for asking me to clarify, as I would not want to be misunderstood.
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DharmaBum
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I should also add that my doubts are founded in similar threads from the OP accusing Protestants of being humanist relativists and questioning if they should be referred to as Christians.
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Adamski
Guest
I do home improvements with a budget typically over 50k I do a lot of listening there will be meetings where I talk less then 10% of the time
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jupiter2
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It should be noted that “Protestant” is a very broad term, comprising just about every variant of Christianity apart from the RCC under the sun. To be fair to the OP, some could be considered ‘humanist relativists’; I’ve visited some that certainly fall into that category, as they are reluctant to accept any form of absolutes. But these are far more in the minority, and such churches as the Universal Unitarian variety are unfairly labeled as “Protestant” (although their origins are).
Stereotypes abound, what can I say.
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Adamski
Guest
let me say I was completely lost in sin because of sola scriptora when I was a Protestant because if I didn’t lien something morally I would just find a new church or even stay home and have the church of me
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Adamski
Guest
There’s is a little different I told an Anglican once that I didn’t recive the Eucharist for over 18 months once because I wasnt in a valid marriage they about lost it and their head turned red with anger. I didn’t talk about them or their church at all
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Adamski
Guest
Very wealthy people like to talk about themself way more than the average person
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jupiter2
Guest
You must be a very good listener. They probably really ‘let their hair down’ if so.
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DharmaBum
Guest
Adamski, in examining your question I have made the following observations:
- You state in your information that you own a landscape architect business.
- You list in your hobbies “evangelizing”
- You have, through reading your posts and threads started (many ending up locked) displayed a less than charitable approach to those not in the Latin Rite of Catholicism.
The premise of this thread is to find out why “Protestants” are intimidated or reactionary to you in business dealings. This isn’t, in my reading, a religion question. It’s a human relations business question. I believe the answer is there if you look.
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JustaServant
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Well, maybe it’s the supervisor in me, but you stated that the incident in the OP has “happened at least 20 times”. If I had been told something like that from an employee I would ask the same question. You’re selling home improvements, not Catholicism or any other brand of Christianity. Obviously something you are saying or doing is turning people off. I would not just assume it’s them.
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Adamski
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If Jesus offends so be it. I don’t speak unless I am asked. At the same regard I have been thanked by 100’s including a Presbyterian minister today who called in thanking me, I didn’t know them but they called because I advised one of thier members, a client to seek help from thier church because they are older and have no children and the husband has Alzheimer’s
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schaeffer
Guest
A previous poster mentioned something that struck me. That in the media there is a LOT of Catholic Bashing, both in the news and in TV and movies.
If a person, be they Protestant or not, primarily gets their info via media, which presents the Catholic faith as bizarre, superstitious and corrupted, that is likely the view they internalize.
Even if they are generally thinking people, subtle but repeated messages do have an effect on us. Think “product placement” in movies.
As is so often repeated, many people don’t hate the Church, they hate what they erroneously believe about the Church.
Even if the minister of a church doesn’t say anything ever against the Catholic faith, the message from the media is buzzing and persistent.
I think Evangelicals and Baptists get a lot of similar flack. When any TV, Movie or even some musicians make fun of Christians, we /seehear the stereotype Southern Preacher voice shouting damnation, red faced, sweating, and sounding stupid.
If a person, be they Protestant or not, primarily gets their info via media, which presents the Catholic faith as bizarre, superstitious and corrupted, that is likely the view they internalize.
Even if they are generally thinking people, subtle but repeated messages do have an effect on us. Think “product placement” in movies.
As is so often repeated, many people don’t hate the Church, they hate what they erroneously believe about the Church.
Even if the minister of a church doesn’t say anything ever against the Catholic faith, the message from the media is buzzing and persistent.
I think Evangelicals and Baptists get a lot of similar flack. When any TV, Movie or even some musicians make fun of Christians, we /seehear the stereotype Southern Preacher voice shouting damnation, red faced, sweating, and sounding stupid.
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TheSeeker2014
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Agreed that this happens alot to many religions in movies with false things and stereotypes, I think it is the news that is most impressionable.
ex would be news stories on sex scandals or abuses in the Catholic Church. But what alot of people do not realize simply because they are not exposed to it, it happens often in protestant churchs too, and often kept more silenced since it does not even hit the news.
Then you do have those TV sermons where denominations bash each other which also does not help in anyway.
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exnihilo
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What is the question?
All Protestants view the Catholic church as teaching error, otherwise they would be Catholic. The Protestant who is more serious about his doctrine, and not a relativist, will care about this. The Protestants who aren’t so concerned with doctrine or objective truth will not mind so much.
Personally I think the people you encounter who have some sort of negative reaction are the ones you are more likely to be able to persuade that Catholicism is true. The folks who don’t see any difference in Catholicism and Protestantism won’t leave their church because they see no difference. The people who see a difference but don’t think it matters also won’t leave their church. The people who get mad about your faith actually care in some way. You may not persuade them in the moment or ever, but they at least have some potential.
I think some Protestants look at Catholicism as being a simple religion because of the reliance on Tradition. They might look down on, or even pity, Catholics who don’t study the Bible to learn the Word of God. They might think Catholics aren’t doing the real work of God in reading the Bible for direction. [This is not my opinion. I am just offering what I think others may think]
All Protestants view the Catholic church as teaching error, otherwise they would be Catholic. The Protestant who is more serious about his doctrine, and not a relativist, will care about this. The Protestants who aren’t so concerned with doctrine or objective truth will not mind so much.
Personally I think the people you encounter who have some sort of negative reaction are the ones you are more likely to be able to persuade that Catholicism is true. The folks who don’t see any difference in Catholicism and Protestantism won’t leave their church because they see no difference. The people who see a difference but don’t think it matters also won’t leave their church. The people who get mad about your faith actually care in some way. You may not persuade them in the moment or ever, but they at least have some potential.
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Tommy999
Guest
For me, it’s the opposite. I view Catholicism as much more complicated than my faith tradition. I view it in some ways like the early Gentile Christians must’ve viewed the Jewish faith with all its rules and regulations. The Catholic owner’s manual, also known as the Catechism, is very impressive but humongous for many Protestants and speaks to the degree of complexity of the Catholic faith for potential protestant converts, in my view.
For example, a Catholic does not believe in salvation in Christ Alone as your typical Protestant does. The position of the Roman Catholic Church (correct me if I’m wrong) is that a person must believe in Jesus Christ AND be baptized AND receive the Eucharist along with the other sacraments AND obey the decrees of the Roman Catholic Church AND perform meritorious works AND not die with any mortal sins AND pray to and invoke the intercession of Mary and the saints in order to be saved.
Some Protestants (like me) are Protestants because we were born into that faith tradition and came from generations of family who did likewise – just as many cradle Catholics are Catholics because they were raised in it. It’s not necessarily because we think the Catholic Church is teaching error, at least in my case. I am still discerning and sorting that out. However, I am serious about wanting to have the right doctrine.
Agreed.
However, I will add that I think some Catholics are angry at Protestants because they incorrectly assume that all Protestants are Protestant because of some axe to grind against Catholicism. That might’ve been the case back in the 1500’s but so many generations have passed since then to where most Protestants are such because we were born into it or think Catholicism is just another denominational choice (like Methodists, etc) and don’t have any idea Catholicism is special, or they like the simpler gospel message that most Protestant churches preach without all the extra bells and whistles of Catholicism, in my opinion.
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Reuben_J
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Hi Tommy. I like your post, there is a good deal of honesty about it.
I would just comment on this though. It nice to hear a non-Catholic’s understanding of what Catholics believe, and I couldn’t help but smile (pleasantly) on reading this.You are right (though a Catholic may not say it that way) except for the last part. While Catholics do pray to the saints (of course Mary included), it is not a must that they do so. We do not have to seek their intercessions or even praying the Marian prayers. Their intercession is not a condition to be saved.
Praying for the saints intercession is just a type of prayers and like any prayer, it is not an obligation during private prayer time.
God bless.
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Tommy999
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Thanks for correcting me, Reuben J. I have studied Catholicism for less than a year now and started from no knowledge at all, so I appreciate your comment as I grow to learn even more in faith and understanding.Hi Tommy. I like your post, there is a good deal of honesty about it.
You are right (though a Catholic may not say it that way) except for the last part. While Catholics do pray to the saints (of course Mary included), it is not a must that they do so. We do not have to seek their intercessions or even praying the Marian prayers. Their intercession is not a condition to be saved.
Praying for the saints intercession is just a type of prayers and like any prayer, it is not an obligation during private prayer time.
God bless.
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