Question for LDS folks.

[TexanKnight]

I’m sorry you feel that way.

It isn’t Mormon bashing to discuss what the Mormon church teaches and Mormons believe. It also isn’t Mormon bashing to say Mormons will hide what they believe, or gloss over teachings they know are sketchy looking to outsiders. I don’t think it is news to them that it is something they do. Pointing it out serves to enable those who don’t know this is an acceptable way, to LDS, to present their teachings. They call if “milk before meat”.

This article is trying to make meat look like milk. All I’m saying is, I don’t buy it. I’m not saying you have to agree with me, or even give a hoot.

I guess the person complaining should define what he or she considers bashing.

It is bashing Obama to say he is wrong about his alleged economic recovery?

It is bashing to say Brady was wrong to kick the defensive player with his cleats?

I do not believe it is.

I think it is not only NOT bashing, but it is our DUTY to point out the dishonesty and inconsistencies in LDS teachings and history. It is our DUTY to point out heretical doctrine. It is our DUTY to be upfront and honest about teachings that go against Catholic Doctrine.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I think it is not only NOT bashing, but it is our DUTY to point out the dishonesty and inconsistencies in LDS teachings and history. It is our DUTY to point out heretical doctrine. It is our DUTY to be upfront and honest about teachings that go against Catholic Doctrine.

That is one of the confusing things about this thread. Theosis is not a Mormon doctrine, asking Mormons, and Mormons only, if they think a Mormon idea is closer to theosis. As if we’ve had a single Mormon here who has show they understood the doctrine of theosis. Not.

 

[SteveVH]

This thread has devolved into what I feared it would. I simply wanted an LDS opinion as to whether or not what this BYU professor said was true. Do most contemporary LDS hold this view or not? I 'm not defending Mormonism in any way.

I must admit I am frustrated with the urge of people on this forum to Mormon-bash at the first opportunity. My question was never about the doctrine itself and I was not interested in opinions of Catholics on this forum regarding LDS doctrine. I already know the opinions of Catholics on the issue.

Time to close the thread.

Judging from the number of Mormon responses (zero, at last count), I think you would have been pretty lonely.

 

[lynnettejane]

If the OP only wanted LDS answers why didn’t he/she post on mormondialogue.com , wouldn’t have become frustrated then.

 

[LongJourney]

If the OP only wanted LDS answers why didn’t he/she post on mormondialogue.com , wouldn’t have become frustrated then.

They monitor this board. If he would post that question there, they would know immediately that he came from here. More likely than not they would then ban him and send the question into their bottomless hole.

It might receive a better response if he took it here.

 

[JoeTheMormon]

Hey guys, I hope you are all having a great day!

This is an interesting discussion with alot of insightful points being made but I’d just like to say that despite some people claiming otherwise we Mormons are really diverse in our beliefs. For instance I believe, as do many in my ward, that Heavenly Father was never a man in a literal sense but the phrase was employed to express that we are children of God and to emphasise our closeness to him. Aside from the 13 articles of belief that are universally upheld we can believe what we want really and we often discuss ideas such as this for the enjoyment of it. Most of us believe what I do as far as I know,
Hopefully this has helped!

 

[TexanKnight]

Hey guys, I hope you are all having a great day!

This is an interesting discussion with alot of insightful points being made but I’d just like to say that despite some people claiming otherwise we Mormons are really diverse in our beliefs. For instance I believe, as do many in my ward, that Heavenly Father was never a man in a literal sense but the phrase was employed to express that we are children of God and to emphasise our closeness to him. Aside from the 13 articles of belief that are universally upheld we can believe what we want really and we often discuss ideas such as this for the enjoyment of it. Most of us believe what I do as far as I know,
Hopefully this has helped!

Then things have changed since I was LDS. And the ability to believe whatever you want is certainly not the way God would have us believe. That is how heresy creeps in.

 

[JoeTheMormon]

I think within certain principles that should be upheld a level of theological discussion is healthy amongst any congregation, I would like to respectfully point out that I didn’t say that we believe ‘whatever we want’ but if that was what you read then I apologise I’ll be sure to write in a clearer manner next time
Also didn’t Jesus say “The kingdom of God is within you” that to me would suggest that there are times when as individuals we must confront our beliefs and explore them for ourselves.

 

[TexanKnight]

I think within certain principles that should be upheld a level of theological discussion is healthy amongst any congregation, I would like to respectfully point out that I didn’t say that we believe ‘whatever we want’ but if that was what you read then I apologise I’ll be sure to write in a clearer manner next time
Also didn’t Jesus say “The kingdom of God is within you” that to me would suggest that there are times when as individuals we must confront our beliefs and explore them for ourselves.

Then you have some problems.

For example.

Joseph taught God was Spirit and Jesus was “tabernacle of flesh” (Lectures on Faith) then taught God was flesh and bones (D&C)

Joseph taught God was once a sinful man and now the LDS is backing away from that

I was taught at MTC that God was married to “Heavenly Mother” and now it is apparently not taught

I was taught at MTC and we taught it is Priesthood Meetings that Jesus was married. Now it is apparently not taught.

Joseph taught (and Book of Mormon stated) that black people who believed would become white. Now it is NOT taught (and Book of Mormon was changed)

BY taught AS DOCTRINE that Adam was our God. Hinkley denied it

Then, of course, you have an LDS God who cannot make up his mind regarding blacks holding the priesthood and polygamy.

How can anyone get a true bead on LDS teachings and doctrine when it is such a moving target?

 

[twopekinguys]

Hey guys, I hope you are all having a great day!

This is an interesting discussion with alot of insightful points being made but I’d just like to say that despite some people claiming otherwise we Mormons are really diverse in our beliefs. For instance I believe, as do many in my ward, that Heavenly Father was never a man in a literal sense but the phrase was employed to express that we are children of God and to emphasise our closeness to him. Aside from the 13 articles of belief that are universally upheld we can believe what we want really and we often discuss ideas such as this for the enjoyment of it. Most of us believe what I do as far as I know,
Hopefully this has helped!

Of all of the mormon’s who have posted here over the years, you are the first one to admit that "Aside from the 13 articles of belief that are universally upheld we can believe what we want really….’

We have seen it, but nobody ever admitted it.

Welcome to CAF!!

 

[lax16]

Hey guys, I hope you are all having a great day!

This is an interesting discussion with alot of insightful points being made but I’d just like to say that despite some people claiming otherwise we Mormons are really diverse in our beliefs. For instance I believe, as do many in my ward, that Heavenly Father was never a man in a literal sense but the phrase was employed to express that we are children of God and to emphasise our closeness to him. Aside from the 13 articles of belief that are universally upheld we can believe what we want really and we often discuss ideas such as this for the enjoyment of it. Most of us believe what I do as far as I know,
Hopefully this has helped!

Hi Joe - Welcome to CAF!

Can you please explain where you get your belief that Heavenly Father was never a man?

thanks!

 

[mtolympus]

I’d like the opinion of LDS on this board as to whether they hold to the traditional LDS belief that God was once a man, or if they hold to the more modern LDS notion that God had no beginning as explained by this BYU professor:

patheos.com/Resources/Additional-Resources/Mormon-Understanding-of-Persons-and-God-James-Faulconer-08-18-2011.html

Thanks for not commenting if you’re not LDS. This is a question for active LDS folks.

Tmaque, Thank you for the thought provoking question.

I seriously doubt there are two camps of beliefs among leaders and/or the general body lf the LDS Church regarding the subject of Intelligence. I believe this type of speculation is limited to BYU professors/Intellectuals and others who like to speculate about such things on internet blogs. All Gospel discussions within the LDS Church are centered around God Our Eternal Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. The closest thing to official doctrine on the matter was presented in the article, which is the statement from 1936 by Joseph Fielding Smith: “We know there is something eternal and uncreated in the person, but we don’t know and cannot know whether it is eternally individual.”

I donnot accept the premise of the author that it makes that much difference. In my opinion if God Our Father created our individual spirit from a spark of intellegence or from an individual intellegence, I see little difference.

 

[TexanKnight]

Tmaque, Thank you for the thought provoking question.

I seriously doubt there are two camps of beliefs among leaders and/or the general body lf the LDS Church regarding the subject of Intelligence. I believe this type of speculation is limited to BYU professors/Intellectuals and others who like to speculate about such things on internet blogs. All Gospel discussions within the LDS Church are centered around God Our Eternal Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. The closest thing to official doctrine on the matter was presented in the article, which is the statement from 1936 by Joseph Fielding Smith: “We know there is something eternal and uncreated in the person, but we don’t know and cannot know whether it is eternally individual.”

I donnot accept the premise of the author that it makes that much difference. In my opinion if God Our Father created our individual spirit from a spark of intellegence or from an individual intellegence, I see little difference.

More whitewashing. Joseph Smith taught that God was once a man like us. You can;t run from it.

And it DOES make a difference.

 

[mtolympus]

More whitewashing. Joseph Smith taught that God was once a man like us. You can;t run from it.

And it DOES make a difference.

Tex- I’m not whitewashing or running, only responding to Tamque’s question.

 

[TexanKnight]

Tex- I’m not whitewashing or running, only responding to Tamque’s question.

but it IS whitewashing. When your alleged prophet teaches something and you say you and yours do not believe it, you are either whitewashing, or you are admitting he is not a prophet.

Could you let me know which, please?

 

[mtolympus]

but it IS whitewashing. When your alleged prophet teaches something and you say you and yours do not believe it, you are either whitewashing, or you are admitting he is not a prophet.

Could you let me know which, please?

Sorry Tex, I’m not sure what you are even talking about. I will try to respond to Tamque if he has any more questions.

 

[TexanKnight]

Sorry Tex, I’m not sure what you are even talking about. I will try to respond to Tamque if he has any more questions.

Sure you do. Stop dodging.

Your Prophet taught God was once man.

You say you do not believe that.

So, we can agree Joseph was not a prophet?

 

[lax16]

Tmaque, Thank you for the thought provoking question.

I seriously doubt there are two camps of beliefs among leaders and/or the general body lf the LDS Church regarding the subject of Intelligence. I believe this type of speculation is limited to BYU professors/Intellectuals and others who like to speculate about such things on internet blogs. All Gospel discussions within the LDS Church are centered around God Our Eternal Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. The closest thing to official doctrine on the matter was presented in the article, which is the statement from 1936 by Joseph Fielding Smith: “We know there is something eternal and uncreated in the person, but we don’t know and cannot know whether it is eternally individual.”

I donnot accept the premise of the author that it makes that much difference. In my opinion if God Our Father created our individual spirit from a spark of intellegence or from an individual intellegence, I see little difference.

Hello mtolympus -

The OP asked if you (an LDS person) believes God was once a man…or not.
What is your answer to this question?

 

[lax16]

Sure you do. Stop dodging.

Your Prophet taught God was once man.

You say you do not believe that.

So, we can agree Joseph was not a prophet?

It seems the Mormons have always prided themselves on being a “challenge” to traditional Christian views about God and now they want to move away from those teachings.

Then why be Mormon?

**Dallin Oaks 2007 **

“…that first revelation [Joseph Smith’s First Vision], concerning the nature of God as an embodied, glorified, resurrected Being, challenged the creeds of Christianity…

“Joseph Smith put together the significance of what he had taught about the nature of God and the nature and destiny of man. He preached a great sermon not long before he was murdered that God was a glorified Man, glorified beyond our comprehension, (still incomprehensible in many ways), but a glorified, resurrected, physical Being, and it is the destiny of His children upon this earth, upon the conditions He has proscribed [sic], to grow into that status themselves. That was a big idea, a challenging idea. It followed from the First Vision, and it was taught by Joseph Smith, and it is the explanation of many things that Mormons do — the whole theology of Mormonism.”

 

[SteveVH]

Tmaque, Thank you for the thought provoking question.

I seriously doubt there are two camps of beliefs among leaders and/or the general body lf the LDS Church regarding the subject of Intelligence. I believe this type of speculation is limited to BYU professors/Intellectuals and others who like to speculate about such things on internet blogs. All Gospel discussions within the LDS Church are centered around God Our Eternal Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. The closest thing to official doctrine on the matter was presented in the article, which is the statement from 1936 by Joseph Fielding Smith: “We know there is something eternal and uncreated in the person, but we don’t know and cannot know whether it is eternally individual.”

I donnot accept the premise of the author that it makes that much difference. In my opinion if God Our Father created our individual spirit from a spark of intellegence or from an individual intellegence, I see little difference.

Thank you. You have made my point exactly. It really doesn’t change anything of substance in LDS theology.