Question for LDS folks.

[RebeccaJ]

What is a court of love and do you know why the first head was threatened with it in the fist place?

When a person is excommunicated from the Mormon church, they are called to a meeting of a group of leaders who do the excommunicating. This group is called a court, and LDS leaders have said it is a “court of love”. It destroys a persons’s life, as far as LDS culture goes, so those who have been excommunicated will sometimes use the phrase “court of love” in a ironic fashion.

He was threatened with excommunication because his website was not faith promoting, and critical of the LDS church, and its leaders. Which is a big no-no in Mormonism. Someone who was once excommunicated called it the 11th commandment of the Mormon church, “thou shalt not commit publicity”. When he took the news of this threat to the media (more publicity) it hit the NY Times, and spread from there…the LDS changed their minds and didn’t hold a court of love.

The timing was also during the months leading up to the last presidential election. He was critical of Mitt Romney, so there was speculation the action was political.

He has since resigned from the LDS church.

thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/21/mormons-want-to-excommunicate-romney-critic.html

nytimes.com/2012/10/25/us/blogger-facing-sanction-quits-mormon-church.html?ref=mormonschurchofjesuschristoflatterdaysaints&_r=0

 

[PuerCuriosus]

When a person is excommunicated from the Mormon church, they are called to a meeting of a group of leaders who do the excommunicating. This group is called a court, and LDS leaders have said it is a “court of love”. It destroys a persons’s life, as far as LDS culture goes, so those who have been excommunicated will sometimes use the phrase “court of love” in a ironic fashion.

He was threatened with excommunication because his website was not faith promoting, and critical of the LDS church, and its leaders. Which is a big no-no in Mormonism. Someone who was once excommunicated called it the 11th commandment of the Mormon church, “thou shalt not commit publicity”. When he took the news of this threat to the media (more publicity) it hit the NY Times, and spread from there…the LDS changed their minds and didn’t hold a court of love.

The timing was also during the months leading up to the last presidential election. He was critical of Mitt Romney, so there was speculation the action was political.

He has since resigned from the LDS church.

thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/21/mormons-want-to-excommunicate-romney-critic.html

nytimes.com/2012/10/25/us/blogger-facing-sanction-quits-mormon-church.html?ref=mormonschurchofjesuschristoflatterdaysaints&_r=0

Thank you very much! Excommunication in mormonism is very interesting. I wonder how many people refine their mindsets to be more inline with how a mormon should be after the court of love is held on their account.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Thank you very much! Excommunication in mormonism is very interesting. I wonder how many people refine their mindsets to be more inline with how a mormon should be after the court of love is held on their account.

I hear it happens.

 

[TexanKnight]

This could be said in a number of different ways. For instance God is a being of truth. Therefore he cannot lie.

You are trying to have it both ways. If Gd truly cannot lie, there could be no apostasy

/QUOTE]

 

[TexanKnight]

So do you disagree with St. Augustine?

Red Herring.

You try to put God in your pocket. You make him the invented little god that Joe Smith designed.

God is not the little god you need Him to be Please see the truth

 

[Janderich]

What power does a lie have?

Fine, I’ll bite. It has the power to deceive. It has power so long as the lie is believed, but once the lie is found out the power ends.

Now Rebecca I hope you don’t use this as a spring board to say something like, “Such is Mormonism”. That would be unfair to the conversation.

 

[Janderich]

Janderich;10342188:

This could be said in a number of different ways. For instance God is a being of truth. Therefore he cannot lie.

You are trying to have it both ways. If Gd truly cannot lie, there could be no apostasy

Let’s not start this again. I spent countless pages discussing this topic a couple of months ago until the moderator closed the thread because there was over 900 posts. Plus I think there is a new thread that is about this very topic.

 

[Janderich]

Red Herring.

You try to put God in your pocket. You make him the invented little god that Joe Smith designed.

God is not the little god you need Him to be Please see the truth

No answer I guess.

 

[TexanKnight]

No answer I guess.

I do not answer questions meant to dodge the truth.

I will never understand why Mormon make God into god. Why they make God into this little bitty god they can understand who has no power except that given by Joe Smith.

and you deflecting does not change anything.

Why do you need to do that to God?

 

[mtolympus]

Why wouldn’t any of these teachings have “shown up” in the early writings of the Church?
The early Christians and Church Fathers were closest to those who knew Jesus Christ and
to those who passed on His teachings. How could this have been missed?

These teachings were known at the time of the apostles. I just referenced three New Testament scriptures that compliment the teaches from our Doctrine and Covenants. 1- God is the father of our spirits (Heb. 12:9), 2- We can become like God. (1 John 3:2), 3- We can be one in the Father and Jesus in the way they are one. (John 17:20-21)

So, what the LDS believe today is what Jesus taught 2,000 years ago but it was *misunderstood?
*

If the following scripture from Genesis can be misunderstood, it will only follow that the other teachings will be misunderstood also:

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." (Genesis 1:26)

mtolympus - With all due respect, isn’t it possible that Joseph Smith was not a prophet?

I have no doubt that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God. I am well aware that others have come to the opposite conclusion.

 

[TexanKnight]

Let’s not start this again. I spent countless pages discussing this topic a couple of months ago until the moderator closed the thread because there was over 900 posts. Plus I think there is a new thread that is about this very topic.

Sorry…but first you say God canlt lie…though you NEED him to be a liar for your alleged apostasy.

I find that hysterical

 

[RebeccaJ]

Fine, I’ll bite. It has the power to deceive. It has power so long as the lie is believed, but once the lie is found out the power ends.

Now Rebecca I hope you don’t use this as a spring board to say something like, “Such is Mormonism”. That would be unfair to the conversation.

No, I just wonder if you are aware we are talking about God, who is truth and life. A lie has the power of death, which God conquered.

God has revealed this about himself, to say God cannot lie is limiting His power, is denying Who God is.

It is the same for what you claim about creation. God has revealed Himself as creator of everything. To say there is an exception denies His nature. A god of your, or Joseph Smith’s making is idolatry.

Through our adoption in Jesus Christ, we are made children of the light. Choose to leave the darkness of lies, and walk in the light.

A lie is not a material thing, but we speak it and it comes to life. It comes from ourselves. When God speaks, His Word is truth and life, it comes from Himself, and is brought into existence.

 

[twopekinguys]

What is a court of love and do you know why the first head was threatened with it in the fist place?

Rebecca explained it perfectly in post 366

 

[TexanKnight]

No, I just wonder if you are aware we are talking about God, who is truth and life. A lie has the power of death, which God conquered.

God has revealed this about himself, to say God cannot lie is limiting His power, is denying Who God is.

It is the same for what you claim about creation. God has revealed Himself as creator of everything. To say there is an exception denies His nature. A god of your, or Joseph Smith’s making is idolatry.

Through our adoption in Jesus Christ, we are made children of the light. Choose to leave the darkness of lies, and walk in the light.

A lie is not a material thing, but we speak it and it comes to life. It comes from ourselves. When God speaks, His Word is truth and life, it comes from Himself, and is brought into existence.

Yes…to believe Janderich is to believe God is controlled by something. How can God be all-powerful and be controlled?

 

[eddie_too]

janderich wrote,

"With this false notion in hand you say God is unbound, that he can do anything. You believe that somehow this gives Him power. However for one who seriously considers the matter it is an impossible position. It leaves God with no structure in which to work.

I once explained it to Rebecca this way. Let’s play a game. You start…

You can do nothing, there are no rules. The game cannot even begin. This is the problem with the Catholic view of Omnipotence it is simply cannot exist because it allows God no structure in which to work."

my reply, “why do you impose human created limitations on your god? Catholics believe in a God that human beings cannot limit. mormons believe they can limit their god.”

 

[eddie_too]

jernagan wrote, "With this false notion in hand you say God is unbound, that he can do anything. You believe that somehow this gives Him power. However for one who seriously considers the matter it is an impossible position. It leaves God with no structure in which to work.

I once explained it to Rebecca this way. Let’s play a game. You start…

You can do nothing, there are no rules. The game cannot even begin. This is the problem with the Catholic view of Omnipotence it is simply cannot exist because it allows God no structure in which to work."

my reply, “you are not clear what you mean by it leaves God with no structure in which to work. for we Catholics, our God is Three Persons in One Supreme Being. that is a structure. God exists as the structure of the Most Holy Trinity. so, your objection to the absence of structure in our God is meritless. you need to return to your mormon leaders and explain that to them.”

 

[eddie_too]

i think i might have addressed my last two posts to the wrong mormon. they may contain comments made by janderich not jernagan. my mistake.

however, while i am apologizing, i would like to provide another Catholic doctrine on the Divine Nature that i encourage the mormons who read this to ponder. that teaching is that, in God there is no potential. to put it another way, the Catholic God is pure act. there is nothing left to be actualized in the Catholic God.

 

[eddie_too]

another point for the mormons who might read this to ponder, in Catholic theology, God’s essence is His existence.

to put it another way, God’s nature is to be.

Through our Lord Jesus Christ, we humans gained an insight in to Pure Being, Being without limitation, Being without potential, completely self-actualized Being. that insight to which i am referring is to the Threeness of the One Perfect Being.

i suspect to any mormons who read the above, it is pure gobbleleygook. to them it is as incomprehensible as it is for Catholics to read about infinite progression.

so, bottomline for me, the God i worship as a Catholic, by definition, created whatever it is mormons worship.

i know of no logical reason to abandon my worship of a Perfect, Infinite, Omniscient, Omnipotent, All-Loving Being and replace it with the mormon god that is not perfect, not infinite, not omniscient, not omnipotent, not all-loving. to me that would be a fool’s errand.

it is kind of like when traditional protestantism proposes we Catholics give up the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist for some symbology. who in their right minds would exchange the Real Presence for a mere symbol?

maybe we Catholics are immersed in the mystery of Being, but that is because we do not, as a body of believers, have the hubris to pretend we have all of the answers or the ability to understand the Infinite and Its innermost workings.

 

[eddie_too]

finally, i must add, for me it is an occasion of pure and eternal joy to be immersed in the mystery of Being. maybe that is because as a Catholic, that is what i believe is intended for me and what i sincerely hope to experience in fulfillment of my true purpose as a creature of the Perfect Creator.

 

[LongJourney]

Eddie too:

Beautiful posts. Before Joseph Smith there was Meister Eckhart, and their descriptions (in the case of Eckhart, holy refusal to describe) of God are like night and day.