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campeador
Guest
As long as we’re clarifying things, can someone LDS or ex-LDS explain the ‘lost boys’?
youtube.com/watch?v=4UKes1CZygs
youtube.com/watch?v=4UKes1CZygs
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zaffiroborant
Guest
From what I understand the endowment was changed significantly in 2005, the whole shield and having your garments put on you was altered. If what I’ve read about the pre 2005 ceremony is correct I can say I would have found it creepy enough to send me back out the door.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
When Brigham Young was seeking statehood for Utah, the US government used that desire to end Mormon polygamy. Federal anti-bigamy laws were passed, Mormon church assets seized, many men arrested including high-up Mormon leaders, for polygamy.
Young conveniently had a ‘revelation’ to end polygamy, only, it wasn’t ended. Groups of Mormons were sent out of the US to Mexico and Canada, to continue its practice, where it hadn’t as yet been made an illegal practice. A group also went to the border area of Arizona and Utah, which was and still is very remote.
Eventually the main Mormon church disavowed these groups, and made polygamy by its members a cause for excommunication. These groups declared Young a false prophet for caving into the US government and ending the practice of polygamy.
They formed their own church, and leaders stepped forward to claim the Mormon leadership with their own “prophets”. They exist still today, and are very insular and cultish.
They teach that outside of their teachings and their communities that the world is pure evil. Young girls are groomed to be polygamous wives. Because they don’t have new people coming in, they are very intermarried. Uncles marrying their nieces, that sort of thing. Also because of this, there are not enough females in their communities to support the practice of polygamy, so, boys are kicked out. Driven to Las Vegas, St. George UT, Salt Lake, and other places, and left abandoned on the street. They’ve come to be known as “lost boys” because they by and large still hold the beliefs they were raised in, have been taught that because they are cast out they are doomed for eternity, and society ignores them and the communities from which they come. Both Utah and Arizona turning a blind eye, until more recently, to the state of affairs in the polygamous communities on their border.
More recently, both states have seized the assets of the community and are managing them. They adhere to Young’s idea of the “united order”, which is a commune-type economy where the church owns everything, and people are given what they need. Both states have brought felony charges regarding the management of the funds, school system and town police, all of whom are controlled by the church.
Dissenters are forced out, because they don’t own the land or houses they live in.
It is all a terrible mess, and made even more so with the advent of Warren Jeffs.
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xixxvmcm85
Guest
The Manifesto came from Pres. Woodruff not Pres. Young.
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xixxvmcm85
Guest
Oh, and the United Order was Joseph Smith’s brainchild, not Brigham Young’s.
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TheExorcist
Guest
And to this day in the temple Mormons covenant to consecrate “yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion”Oh, and the United Order was Joseph Smith’s brainchild, not Brigham Young’s.
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xixxvmcm85
Guest
Indeed! But the modern understanding of that consecration is quite different than what my great-grandparents envisioned when they took out their Endowments. The static, geographically fixed Deseret has become much more dynamic and exists in an almost ethereal sense and the trend seems to have started with McKay and the change in LDS practices of allowing converts to stay in geographically remote Stakes instead of enticing them to trek to Zion. Yeah, modern LDS are expected to tithe 10% and even go above and beyond should times and situations necessitate, but you don’t exactly see Mormons living on communes these days.
EDIT: I’ve just read your previous posts. My prayers are with you brother. It was a bit difficult for me to leave the LDS Church given my family’s status (I come from one of the large Mormon founder dynasties) but I was fortunate enough to decide to leave prior to marriage. I lost my fiancee due to it, but thank God no children were involved. It breaks my heart to hear what you’re going through and it seems like all possible decisions have their setbacks. Best of luck and God be with you!
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Thanks. They seem to be all blending together into one megalomaniac entity, and/or, I’m losing interest in keeping track.Oh, and the United Order was Joseph Smith’s brainchild, not Brigham Young’s.
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TheExorcist
Guest
Thank you for your prayers. I will need all the grace I can receive in order to break away with the situation Im in now. My wife is a Knight, and yes that’s in Joseph and Newell Knight so you can see how deep the church runs in her family.
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KathleenGee
Guest
I was able to see that promo on the ‘Sons of Perdition’…makes me want to cry…great service in the Lord for someone to go down there to make a home and family for these young men…
Alot of praying needs to be done for the Mormon people…
Alot of praying needs to be done for the Mormon people…
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RebeccaJ
Guest
I’m from those NY Mormons who did the pioneer trek in 1847, traveling with BY, polygamous marriages, the whole bit. I went through a stage years and years ago where I felt like I was some sort of familial traitor. Then I went through my family’s genealogy, and found that before the people in my family converted to Mormonism, they were Universalists. Before that, Anglicans, and some Lutherans. Before that, Roman Catholic, and before that, pagans of some sort.
Obviously, a lot of people in there were not being true to the faith that their parents have cherished.
It is something that is so drilled into you as a Mormon, that I was dealing with it as an atheist, who didn’t believe one thing about Mormonism, but still had this idea in my head that I had to be something a bunch of dead people were.
We don’t live for the dead. We all work out our own salvation, with hope and faith in Jesus Christ.
In my own situation, where my husband is atheist, I didn’t want him to know I was checking out any religion, but eventually told him that I was going to “find God”, and started going to RCIA.
Here’s the thing, he voiced concerns that me “finding God” would be the end of our marriage. I told him it didn’t have to be, and that is not what I wanted. But the problem was, if he made it hard for me to do what I wanted to do, then there might be something to be worried about. There just wasn’t going to be any stopping me, for any reason.
When I was baptized, he came to Mass, and he goes to Mass with me on Christmas day. Other than that, he has the atheist view that religion is a psychological crutch, and so he’s ok with me needing the “crutch”.
I keep telling him that is not how it is, but, it doesn’t get through.
You have to live your life, just go to Mass. Being held hostage by your spouse is no way to live, it will eventually lead to resentment. That 11th article of faith should mean something, no?
God protect you from all anxiety.
Peace be with you.
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Esdra
Guest
Only worthy (meaning having a priesthood, either Melchezidek or Aaronic) and baptised LDS members are allowed to enter the Temple. - So in theory not even all LDS members are allowed to enter the temple. - In practice, however, nearly every male is a priest.
However, you are allowed to visit their Chaples. - Please help me out my dear Mormon-brothers and sisters - I forgot how they are called.
A Mormon sect called Community of Christ has only ONE Temple in Independence, Missouri, USA and there everyone can enter.
I am, however, not sure about the other Mormon sects.
in Christ,
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xixxvmcm85
Guest
I have Knight blood from about 4 generations ago, and it was reintroduced to the family through my brother’s wife.
You and I, good sir, are distantly removed inlaws!
I have a recent story I’d like to tell you. I went to visit my Relief Society president of a mother a few days ago and noticed, of all things, a rosary sitting on her office desk. This is the same mother who upon learning of my conversion to Catholicism lamented the loss of her son, and who (according to my siblings) spent weeks in agony asking herself where she went wrong as a mother.
I picked it up and asked her what’s this? She stuttered and stumbled for a bit and finally said “Oh, uh, it’s a gift… for you! I thought you might like it!”
I also noticed a piece of paper on the desk with the Angelus, Apostle’s Creed, and Salve Regina written on it. There’s no way this was a gift for anyone and it was readily apparent she was actually praying with these. Did I mention I had been praying for her conversion for the past six months?
I conveniently forgot my “gift” there. Maybe in a couple weeks I’ll muster up the courage to ask her to come to Mass with me.
God works incredibly strange, incredibly unexpected miracles, so I hope you aren’t yet finding yourself despondent over your wife’s reaction to your interest in Apostolic Christianity. She very well may come around, with the right amount of love and prayer.
You might want to check out brother Sunstone’s thread mentioning his wife following him into the Catholic Church from the LDS Church, and even send him a private message if you so feel compelled.
I’m still praying for you two.
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TheExorcist
Guest
Thanks!! I’ve been praying the rosary daily, even shooting for twice a day when possible. I know our Lady’s intervention can be miraculous. Im also going to incorporate the Divine Mercy Chaplet into my routine. Beside EWTN podcasts this is the only interaction I have with Catholics. There is no way to break away for Mass on Sunday, DEFINITELY not Sunday (dang 3 hour block). All the prayers I receive from you fine fold sustain me and your stories give me hope, however small.I have Knight blood from about 4 generations ago, and it was reintroduced to the family through my brother’s wife.
You and I, good sir, are distantly removed inlaws!
I have a recent story I’d like to tell you. I went to visit my Relief Society president of a mother a few days ago and noticed, of all things, a rosary sitting on her office desk. This is the same mother who upon learning of my conversion to Catholicism lamented the loss of her son, and who (according to my siblings) spent weeks in agony asking herself where she went wrong as a mother.
I picked it up and asked her what’s this? She stuttered and stumbled for a bit and finally said “Oh, uh, it’s a gift… for you! I thought you might like it!”
I also noticed a piece of paper on the desk with the Angelus, Apostle’s Creed, and Salve Regina written on it. There’s no way this was a gift for anyone and it was readily apparent she was actually praying with these. Did I mention I had been praying for her conversion for the past six months?
I conveniently forgot my “gift” there. Maybe in a couple weeks I’ll muster up the courage to ask her to come to Mass with me.
God works incredibly strange, incredibly unexpected miracles, so I hope you aren’t yet finding yourself despondent over your wife’s reaction to your interest in Apostolic Christianity. She very well may come around, with the right amount of love and prayer.
You might want to check out brother Sunstone’s thread mentioning his wife following him into the Catholic Church from the LDS Church, and even send him a private message if you so feel compelled.
I’m still praying for you two.
Thanks LOADS!
Charles
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tundramom
Guest
you know, in a way I am very grateful that I was never “worthy” to go to the temple after reading the text of the ceremony.
I am praying for all my Mormon friends/family that they can break through the darkness and come HOME!
Steph
I am praying for all my Mormon friends/family that they can break through the darkness and come HOME!
Steph
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KathleenGee
Guest
I am praying every day and now in the sleepless nights for the Mormon people, that they come to see the blessing Catholics conversions can do to their own families.
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pinay
Guest
That’s awesome. My mother sends monthly donations to the Carmelite sisters to pray for me too! I got all these people praying for me. It’s super awesome!
I’m praying for you too. Then everybody will always have somebody praying for them, including all the Catholics. It’s as it should be.
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Inishfree
Guest
That is exactly what I was wondering?
I stopped going to the Methodist church because I would go with my granny. She got a job working on Sunday’s and I wasn’t old enough to drive at the time. I started to attend a local Catholic parish, I could walk to and of course this was fine with my family. I liked this parish so much that when I became an adult. I chose to become a member. I was never excommunicated from the Methodist church or anything like that. I have very fond memories of my childhood parish. What drew me to Catholism, was the honoring of the Blessed Mother and the beautiful mass. Other than that. The two denominations are very simular.
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Inishfree
Guest
This saddens me to read this. As far as custody of your child it would legally be with both parents. I pray that things get better for you. No matter what you choose.
God bless you.
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Inishfree
Guest
Hi Charles,
I hope. I am not being intrusive. Most Catholic churches have chapel masses on weekdays, in the morning. Usually around 8am.
P.S. I have been in love and married to my husband for 28 years. If he chose to be another denomination or religion, such as Jewish, Buhdist or Muslim. I would never leave him. I would respect his wishes and respect his beliefs. As he would respect mine.
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