Question for members of SSPX

[prodigalson12]

I’m spouting off? Why, because you have no clue what the difference between the SSPX and the SSPV is and I’m letting you know what that difference is? Ok, I’ll spout off as needed. In the meantime, I’ve been googling “SSPX” and find nothing but sites by the SSPX and in favor of the SSPX, and sites that burn the SSPX…no big deal. But none of them link them to the SSPV. I also googled “SSPX sedevacantism” and find nothing but refutations of sedevacantism from the SSPX, its founder, its bishops, its priests, and the people who attend.

Just check the record: the SSPX has never been sede. You claimed that the SSPX still endorses “their split” the SSPV but you **cannot **back that up with anything. The SSPX has always been opposed to the sedevacantist theory.

So, you want me to spend the next 3 days bringing up every single instance of my personal experience with them, then to connotate and annotate every detail and iota, just to appease this point for you, just because you cannot let this go and just because you think you are some authority on this subject, with the measly one day research you did on some search engine??? Honestly, I have better things to do son, join the sspx or the sspv for that matter, join the moonies for all I care, I have zero, notta, no respect for the sspx, sspv, or any other entity that claims fellowship with the Catholic church as one of authority of it, they are a skism then, they are now, and that’s that. I will not candy coat this issue for you or anybody else, the bishops in the sspx are ordaining priests outside of the church, which to me, in my book are not priests at all, but protestant pastors and no more then simple laymen.

If you want to debate this further, I’ll give you my paypal account info so you can send me money for my time, otherwise, you just have a chip in your shoulder and are here with nothing but time on your hands. Do the darn research yourself if you want to know the truth, I am not at all here to babysit some child that refuses to do nothing but keep their heads in the sand AND WILL NOT PUT UP WITH THEM TRYING TO GET OTHERS TO FOLLOW THE ERRORS OF THEIR WAYS… got it???

 

[giuseppeTO]

When the nine were expelled from the SSPX seminary in 1988 by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, ostensibly for refusing to celebrate the 1962 Missal as opposed to the 1945 Missal, but in reality because they believe the pope to be an anti-pope (rendering the 1962 Missal invalid), there was a significant court battle over the SSPX chapel properties in the northeast. Since some of these sedevacantist priests started some of these chapels, they claimed a right to take them with them - to the great consternation of many of the faithful. The court gave the nine priests some of the chapels. At that time, they formed the Society of St. Pius V (SSPV). Part of the court ruling was that the SSPV NEVER use the title of SSPX and the two names may never be mixed without the danger of a law suit.

If there are any faithful or clergy who hold sedevacantist views, regardless if the they in the SSPX or not, they are not SSPV. The SSPV is not a synonym for sedevacantism and one does not become a SSPV priest without a formal acceptance by one of their bishops. A priest from the SSPV who calls himself SSPX in any public forum presents an enormous financial risk to the SSPV - their ‘hierarchy’ would quash it immediately. That said, of course, anyone can say anything on the internet.

To the original poster on the state of the SSPX dialog, I do not represent the SSPX nor do I have any special 'in" with the Society. However, we do regularly have conferences from the US District Superior and will have Bishop De Galleretta, who is in charge of the negotiations, at our chapel in a couple of weeks giving Confirmation to our 6th graders. He will also give a talk on the progress of the talks. My understanding is that the talks are going well and “bearing fruit”. We should all continue to pray for their success.

In regard to the predictions of a split from the SSPX by the faithful, clergy, or any SSPX Bishops when a regularization is accomplished, my personal feeling (for many reasons) is that there will be no split and no appreciable defection by priests or clergy. I will go out a limb further and personally predict that the regularization will not happen any later than 2011.

 

[giuseppeTO]

OP: the reason that you’re not getting any responses from so-called “SSPX members” is that there is no such thing as one. You don’t “join” the SSPX, it’s a Priestly fraternity.

There is a Third Order of the Society of St. Pius X that a lay person may profess to. But as you said, assisting at an SSPX doesn’t make you a member of the Priestly Society.

 

[Abenadar]

So, you want me to spend the next 3 days bringing up every single instance of my personal experience with them, then to connotate and annotate every detail and iota, just to appease this point for you, just because you cannot let this go and just because you think you are some authority on this subject, with the measly one day research you did on some search engine???

No, I don’t. You told me to do a google search, which I did. There is nothing linking the SSPX and the SSPV. You don’t have, and cannot have any evidence to the contrary, because the two simply aren’t linked.

Honestly, I have better things to do son, join the sspx or the sspv for that matter, join the moonies for all I care, I have zero, notta, no respect for the sspx, sspv, or any other entity that claims fellowship with the Catholic church as one of authority of it, they are a skism then, they are now, and that’s that.

Between the poor spelling and poor grammar I’m not exactly clear on what you’re trying to say, old dude, but I guess the bottom line is that you don’t consider the SSPX to be Catholic. If that’s the case, then your opinion is in direct oposition to what Rome has clearly stated numerous times. I don’t care whether you like the SSPX or not…I’m just pointing out that they are a part of the Catholic Church, as the pope and all his men admit. Perhaps you should get in line with the Church, and drop you schismatic ideas that the SSPX is not in the Church, as though you are a higher judge than the pope.

I will not candy coat this issue for you or anybody else, the bishops in the sspx are ordaining priests outside of the church

The SSPX was never outside of the Church. The episcopal consecrations were valid but illicit. All the ordinations of priests have been valid but illicit. The bishops are truly Catholic bishops; the priests are truly Catholic priests…Nobody (but you) is denying that. Your personal opinion is in total opposition with what Rome’s position on the SSPX is.

which to me, in my book are not priests at all, but protestant pastors and no more then simple laymen.

Yet again, you are showing your ignorance. Again, you don’t know what you’re talking about. You need to get in line with the Church. Your opinions are in direct opposition with what the Church believes.

If you want to debate this further, I’ll give you my paypal account info so you can send me money for my time,

AHAHAHAHAHA, because everything you’ve said has been factual, right??? What a joke…You still don’t know what you are talking about. You are completely backward on this whole issue, and yet you want to charge me money for consulting with you??? I might pay you for some stand-up comedy, though, since I have been nothing but LOL since I read your latest manifesto

otherwise, you just have a chip in your shoulder and are here with nothing but time on your hands.

I don’t have a chip on my shoulder…Quite the opposite. It’s a corporal work of mercy to instruct the ignorant. This is earning me graces, why would I have a chip on my shoulder about it? As I’ve stated, 1) the SSPX and SSPV aren’t connected, and 2) the SSPX is 100% inside the Catholic Church. You can’t refute either of these two statements, and you can’t provide a shred of evidence…oh yeah, other than your so-called “personal experience”.

Do the darn research yourself if you want to know the truth, I am not at all here to babysit some child that refuses to do nothing but keep their heads in the sand

I’ve already stated the truth. Prodigal son, you need to come back to the Church’s way of thinking and conform your views regarding the SSPX with the Church’s views about them. (I’m not talking about the SSPV, because as far as I know, they are outside of the Church because of their sedevacantist, aka heretical position).

AND WILL NOT PUT UP WITH THEM TRYING TO GET OTHERS TO FOLLOW THE ERRORS OF THEIR WAYS… got it???

I’ve never told anybody that they MUST go to Mass at an SSPX chapel. As a Catholic my biggest concern for myself and for other Catholics is final perseverence…and for non-Catholics it is conversion to the Catholic faith. On the other hand, when people like you spread ERRORS regarding the SSPX, then it is my duty to correct the errors.

 

[mick321]

So, you want me to spend the next 3 days bringing up every single instance of my personal experience with them, then to connotate and annotate every detail and iota, just to appease this point for you, just because you cannot let this go and just because you think you are some authority on this subject, with the measly one day research you did on some search engine??? Honestly, I have better things to do son, join the sspx or the sspv for that matter, join the moonies for all I care, I have zero, notta, no respect for the sspx, sspv, or any other entity that claims fellowship with the Catholic church as one of authority of it, they are a skism then, they are now, and that’s that. I will not candy coat this issue for you or anybody else, the bishops in the sspx are ordaining priests outside of the church, which to me, in my book are not priests at all, but protestant pastors and no more then simple laymen.

If you want to debate this further, I’ll give you my paypal account info so you can send me money for my time, otherwise, you just have a chip in your shoulder and are here with nothing but time on your hands. Do the darn research yourself if you want to know the truth, I am not at all here to babysit some child that refuses to do nothing but keep their heads in the sand AND WILL NOT PUT UP WITH THEM TRYING TO GET OTHERS TO FOLLOW THE ERRORS OF THEIR WAYS… got it???

Are you serious? You hosted SSPV websites on your server without knowing that they were self-proclaimed sedavacantists? As others have pointed out, the SSPX and the Holy See are working on resolving their differences. In the meantime, Soceity priests offer daily Mass in Vatican chapels.

Personal experience? OK. Have you attended Mass at any of theses SSPX chapels?

• Corpus Christi, 204 6th Avenue North, Edmonds, WA 98020-3005
• Our Lady of Fatima, 4530 SW Garden Home Rd., Portland, OR 97219
• Our Lady of Guadalupe, 221 W. Elm Street, New Plymouth, ID 83655
• Immaculate Conception, 495 N Lincoln St., Post Falls, ID 83854
• Our Lady Immaculate, 410 Washington Bl, Oak Park, IL 60302

The following are official SSPX websites that provide information on the Society’s activities on four continents. Certainly, you’ve visited some of these sites. Do these sites promote the same heresy and schism as those you host?
sspx.org/index.htm
fsspx.org/fr/
seminaire-econe.ch/gbcom/index.htm
holycrossseminary.com/
sspxasia.com/
sspxafrica.com/
sspx.ca/
piusx.org.pl/
ireland.sspx.net/
sanpiox.it/public/
laportelatine.org/
stpiusx.be/nl/
sspx.co.uk/
fsspx-sudamerica.org/

BTW, what’s the latest on:

…the online dating thing?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=325162
…the strange animal sightings?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=349597

…your protestant outreach website?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=406618
…your sparring partner?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=405379

You would be best served to get a hold of yourself Toto. There’s nothing to be afraid of - but you’re not in Kansas anymore - and this is not the Back Fence forum. You may have been lied to, manipulated, and in general, put through the wringer by some of those gals. You should never have to be subject to that kind of treatment in the hopes of finding someone genuine. I understand you not wanting to back down, but you have no cause to get snippy with folks in this forum.

On Aug 8, '09, 1:35 pm Prodigalson12 said:

If you are having problems dealing with your anger, it’s time to stop and figure out exactly why you are angry, be honest with yourself, you will find that there is no logical reason for it, that you can decide to be in control, or let it be in control over you.

I agree.

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

The recent talks between the Vatican and SSPX has naturally created a lot of buss on the Internet, but it’s hard to find reliable information on the status of the talks because everything is being kept very secret. Since you guys probably hear a lot of “inside” info from your priest and so forth. I was hoping you could fill us in on if the talks are bearing good fruit or if things are stalled. Any info is much appreciated.

The reason I’m curious is because I am very sympathetic to the grievances of the SSPX and I’m praying that your society will be fully reconciled with Holy Mother Church in the near future. The sooner the better!

There are a lot of faithful Catholics out there who fight the good fight and combat the errors of the “spirit” of Vatican II and could use your help. You would be way more valuable to the Church if you were fighting errors from within the Church, instead of on Her fringes.

I don’t mean to sound disrespectful when I say the following, but it needs to be said;

You guys have taken the easy way out by cloistering yourselves in groups of like minded people where everything is safe and cozy. That’s easy and anybody can do that. Try evangelizing the liberal setting next to you in the pew, or correcting the “Catholic” catechist who is teaching Protestant doctrines in a religious education class. That takes a Catholic with real courage and courageous Catholics is something the Church desperately needs right now.

I think the SSPX has a lot to offer the Church and can do a lot of good in correcting the abuses that have taken place over the last forty years. I also think the Holy Father believes this and that is why he has put his neck on the line for you guys.

Hi basinite,

I am not a member of the Society of St. Pius X. I am a Catholic who assists at a Society chapel. I appreciate the spirit of your admonition but I don’t think you know my circumstances. My boy was about 13 when the priest where he was an altar boy admonished him. The priest didn’t like that he would genuflect when he crossed in front of the altar. He wanted the altar boys to do what he called a bow…what I call a nod of the head. In my opinion, if I had stayed, my boy would not be applying to go to a seminary this fall. (A seminary that believes in genuflecting.) I am sure you mean well and are concerned for the salvation of my family. I could give more anecdotal evidence as to the benefits of my decision to get away from that priest…but it seems to me like this should be enough to make you realize that each of us have our own paths to take.

I love the idea of having everyone fight it out in their own parish boundaries…until I see my children going to hell for it.

 

[prodigalson12]

Then prosecute the owner and church from this web site for starters guys: catholicapologetics.info/ they are the ones I hosted, and they still claim they are sspx, yet they are sspv let’s see how far this one goes folks, if you want to see just one example of what I faced in the here and now backing up my claims. There is another I also hosted, I held and even paid for their domain name as well and upon seeing what was really going on, I retained it, and wiped it into obliteration, to be rebuilt under a proper manner, no longer to be at all against the church…

 

[franklinf]

Then prosecute the owner and church from this web site for starters guys: catholicapologetics.info/ they are the ones I hosted, and they still claim they are sspx, yet they are sspv let’s see how far this one goes folks, if you want to see just one example of what I faced in the here and now backing up my claims. There is another I also hosted, I held and even paid for their domain name as well and upon seeing what was really going on, I retained it, and wiped it into obliteration, to be rebuilt under a proper manner, no longer to be at all against the church…

Completely false.

From the website itself:
“We are not affiliated with any particular religious group or organization.”

“Catholic Apologetics Information has always been a strictly lay apostolate and a non-profit organization.”

You have no idea what you are talking about, yet again.

 

[basinite]

When the nine were expelled from the SSPX seminary in 1988 by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, ostensibly for refusing to celebrate the 1962 Missal as opposed to the 1945 Missal, but in reality because they believe the pope to be an anti-pope (rendering the 1962 Missal invalid), there was a significant court battle over the SSPX chapel properties in the northeast. Since some of these sedevacantist priests started some of these chapels, they claimed a right to take them with them - to the great consternation of many of the faithful. The court gave the nine priests some of the chapels. At that time, they formed the Society of St. Pius V (SSPV). Part of the court ruling was that the SSPV NEVER use the title of SSPX and the two names may never be mixed without the danger of a law suit.

If there are any faithful or clergy who hold sedevacantist views, regardless if the they in the SSPX or not, they are not SSPV. The SSPV is not a synonym for sedevacantism and one does not become a SSPV priest without a formal acceptance by one of their bishops. A priest from the SSPV who calls himself SSPX in any public forum presents an enormous financial risk to the SSPV - their ‘hierarchy’ would quash it immediately. That said, of course, anyone can say anything on the internet.

To the original poster on the state of the SSPX dialog, I do not represent the SSPX nor do I have any special 'in" with the Society. However, we do regularly have conferences from the US District Superior and will have Bishop De Galleretta, who is in charge of the negotiations, at our chapel in a couple of weeks giving Confirmation to our 6th graders. He will also give a talk on the progress of the talks. My understanding is that the talks are going well and “bearing fruit”. We should all continue to pray for their success.

In regard to the predictions of a split from the SSPX by the faithful, clergy, or any SSPX Bishops when a regularization is accomplished, my personal feeling (for many reasons) is that there will be no split and no appreciable defection by priests or clergy. I will go out a limb further and personally predict that the regularization will not happen any later than 2011.

I knew you guys were out there and thanks for the response!

Please remember to keep us updated on the progress of these talks, or you can private message me if you want. Thanks again brother.

 

[basinite]

There is a Third Order of the Society of St. Pius X that a lay person may profess to. But as you said, assisting at an SSPX doesn’t make you a member of the Priestly Society.

Thanks for the clarification. I need one from time to time, just ask my wife.

 

[basinite]

Hi basinite,

I am not a member of the Society of St. Pius X. I am a Catholic who assists at a Society chapel. I appreciate the spirit of your admonition but I don’t think you know my circumstances. My boy was about 13 when the priest where he was an altar boy admonished him. The priest didn’t like that he would genuflect when he crossed in front of the altar. He wanted the altar boys to do what he called a bow…what I call a nod of the head. In my opinion, if I had stayed, my boy would not be applying to go to a seminary this fall. (A seminary that believes in genuflecting.) I am sure you mean well and are concerned for the salvation of my family. I could give more anecdotal evidence as to the benefits of my decision to get away from that priest…but it seems to me like this should be enough to make you realize that each of us have our own paths to take.

I love the idea of having everyone fight it out in their own parish boundaries…until I see my children going to hell for it.

I’m not trying to judge your family and God only knows how many chuncks of wood I have poking out of my eyes that need removed.

God bless your son for becoming a priest. Who knows, maybe some day he will be giving me the sacraments. You never know.

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

I’m not trying to judge your family and God only knows how many chuncks of wood I have poking out of my eyes that need removed.

God bless your son for becoming a priest. Who knows, maybe some day he will be giving me the sacraments. You never know.

Okay, fair enough basinite. You asked a good question in your original post. I’m not judging you either. I’m not telling anybody to leave their parish boundaries. I’m not telling anybody to come to Society chapels. Whatever a husband and father does, he will answer more for what becomes of his family than what becomes of his parish.

Pastors of souls and the prelates of the Church will give account for their teaching and care for the flock. I won’t. Why are traditional Catholics in my region compelled in large numbers to go to the trouble of driving lots of miles to pass many parishes? In most cases, I believe it is because these parishes are doing what the bishop approves of and permits.

I am afraid the bishop and most of his priests still haven’t woken up to the fact that young people need the dignity of something great to fight for, and indeed worth dying for. They think that teenagers want to be condescendingly pandered to with “teen catechisms” and “youth Masses” that are somehow designed especially for them. That’s the big mistake. I am convinced that this is imprudent and harmful to souls. Watered down MTV Masses are not going to give us good vocations. The bishop seems oblivious to the bitter fight for the souls of our children that is being waged by the world, the flesh and the devil. With all due respect, I sometimes wonder if some of our bishops understand what is at stake with regard to their own souls.

Rory

 

[ProVobis]

the bishops in the sspx are ordaining priests outside of the church

Not outside the church but outside the canonical structure of the church. Both bishops and priests are still Catholic. Furthermore, I don’t remember the lifting of the excommunications in Jan 09 being contingent on that SSPX bishops suspend priestly ordinations altogether.

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

Not outside the church but outside the canonical structure of the church. Both bishops and priests are still Catholic. Furthermore, I don’t remember the lifting of the excommunications in Jan 09 being contingent on that SSPX bishops suspend priestly ordinations altogether.

Great point ProVobis. If it was so contingent, there has not been a peep from Rome expressing displeasure about the upcoming ordinations. Maybe they will be declared re-excommunicated, but I think there is zero chance of that happening.

 

[giuseppeTO]

Thanks for the clarification. I need one from time to time, just ask my wife.

I know what you mean … I have one also.

 

[Onegin]

They think that teenagers want to be condescendingly pandered to with “teen catechisms” and “youth Masses” that are somehow designed especially for them. That’s the big mistake. I am convinced that this is imprudent and harmful to souls. Watered down MTV Masses are not going to give us good vocations. The bishop seems oblivious to the bitter fight for the souls of our children that is being waged by the world, the flesh and the devil. With all due respect, I sometimes wonder if some of our bishops understand what is at stake with regard to their own souls.

Rory

This is spot on. Teenagers today want something to challenge them both spiritually and intellectually. The current “Teen Masses” do neither so the result is apathy, boredom and eventual apostasy.

 

[basinite]

This is spot on. Teenagers today want something to challenge them both spiritually and intellectually. The current “Teen Masses” do neither so the result is apathy, boredom and eventual apostasy.

I’ve never even heard of a “Teen Mass”. Dare I ask what it is?

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Eighteen posts have been pruned for being off topic.
The topic concerns the Vatican talks with the SSPX, not the SSPV, which is a distinct group.
Remain on topic please.

 

[JustaServant]

I think the SSPX has a lot to offer the Church and can do a lot of good in correcting the abuses that have taken place over the last forty years. I also think the Holy Father believes this and that is why he has put his neck on the line for you guys.

I have said before and will say again that I believe truth is on on the side of the SSPX. How they handle that great responsibility will say much.
I pray that soon the SSPX priests will be united in full with the Church.