Question for men-would you leave your wife if she lost her looks?

[LethalMouse]

Well it is fair. If a woman’s worth is tied so strongly to youth and beauty, a man’s worth should be tied to his wealth, his sexual performance and his height.

If we are being fair, can’t my wortb be tied to my youth and beauty? I have more of that than wealth atm.

Though in about 10 yrs we can switch back

 

[Sarcelle]

If we are being fair, can’t my wortb be tied to my youth and beauty? I have more of that than wealth atm.

Though in about 10 yrs we can switch back

Nowadays, maybe.

 

[LethalMouse]

Nowadays, maybe.

Wooohoooo!!! Thank you

 

[MarkInOregon]

Generally speaking,what do you think could make love fade?

A lack of understanding what love actually is. Believing it is some feeling as opposed to an act of the will, of willing the good of the other simply because they are–obviously it’s easier said than done, but it is important for us to keep our eye on what love actually is. I’m called to love my wife – to sacrifice for her–as Christ loved and sacrificed for me–it’s got nothing to do with how I feel today or what I might get out of it, or what my wife does.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[Elena321]

I understand what you are going through. My face didn’t change though, I was born like that, so I didn’t lose the looks, I never had them.

It is painful to hear guys (and girls) talk about how they notice a girl’s eyes/how it is their favorite feature, etc when I look like an abused rat.

I can’t even wear the amount of makeup I want because it draws attention to my flaw. The only way I look normal is if I tilt my chin up so my eyes are half open.

So yeah, I can understand the preoccupation. Most people don’t understand, because while they might not look like a VS model, they don’t look abnormal. I’m not even expecting any guy to like me, lol. My brothers don’t even like talking to me in public.

So I’m personally not annoyed at your posts

Although I have no idea what you look like, and you might look totally fine, of course

Thanks Lea101

Regarding confidence,I could be wrong but I think what the guys are saying is they don’t want a girl to be insecure but they don’t want her to be up-herself/boastful/full of self/unapproachable either which is why they found her friend saying she looked amazing in the photo a turn off.
It could have just been said in a matter of fact way,but often when people say this it sounds like boasting.

At the same time,maybe guys shouldn’t say this(?) as while there are pretty women who are insecure/lack confidence there are also other women with genuine reasons to lack confidence.

At least you have a good sense of humor! (Not suggesting this can ever compensate for feelings of not feeling attractive but at least it’s another good quality to have)

Why don’t your brothers want to talk to you in public?
Is it because of your appearance or just the fact that you are their sister etc?

 

[Lea101]

Thanks Lea101

Regarding confidence,I could be wrong but I think what the guys are saying is they don’t want a girl to be insecure but they don’t want her to be up-herself/boastful/full of self/unapproachable either which is why they found her friend saying she looked amazing in the photo a turn off.
It could have just been said in a matter of fact way,but often when people say this it sounds like boasting.

At the same time,maybe guys shouldn’t say this(?) as while there are pretty women who are insecure/lack confidence there are also other women with genuine reasons to lack confidence.

At least you have a good sense of humor! (Not suggesting this can ever compensate for feelings of not feeling attractive but at least it’s another good quality to have)

Why don’t your brothers want to talk to you in public?
Is it because of your appearance or just the fact that you are their sister etc?

She didn’t say it in a stuck up way. We were looking at pictures and she looked bad in most of them. But then we came across one she liked and she made that comment

I feel like guys are into insecure women, but those who keep it to themselves because they like to feel as if they are needed or whatever. Maybe I’m just surrounded by manipulative men who are afraid of women, lol

& my brothers are kind of ashamed of me. They like hanging out with my other sister (younger). They’ll talk to me if I looked my best, other than that, nope

 

[Lea101]

You’ll be fine, you are young and have time. You will learn and grow and become something greater than what is now. I touched on knowing God when I was young, it took about 2 decades to see Him rightfully. And you don’t fix everything overnight. We just grow and get better.

You said you starved underweight, you’ve mentioned cutting before. You don’t now? Well babysteps my dear, you have cone a long way from an anorexic slicer and you may not see the strides made but they are quite big. What did this all transoire in? 5 or so yrs from kid to cutter to not? Imagine the improvement of 5 more years???

You won’t even be what 23/24? And if you imorove and discover yourself at the same rate as the last 5 years? How far will you have come?

You won’t be everything you want tomorrow, I can all but promise you that, but in 5-10 yrs? I expect you’ll read these posts and think “who is that, idk tbat girl anymore”.

Relax, give it time, do what you can, and grow just a tiny bit each day.

I hope you are right

 

[Elena321]

I will rise above this attack and just let you know that sometimes having an argumentative spirit is what makes one more unattractive then appearance .

You have had some of the most seasoned and knowledgeable posters in family life try and help you with your question, and to see why it is flawed to think of things like this. You have brought your experiences from your life and culture, and when someone tries to explain their point of view, if it is not in agreement with your thinking, they are attacking you in your mind.

There are many many posters who have ongoing issues and most times, professional help is suggested. To think that your posts do not mirror this is denial on your part.

It is ok for you to raise hot button issues, but not others, and if they respond, you deflect it back to them, stating th
ey are the unsensitive ones. Meanwhile, you post you are sensitive and would not post like this because it us hurtful…gjrlfriend…you are posting hurtful things, just for the sake of being right.

If you are seeking prayerful support in the future , there is the prayer intentions subforum. Here you get honest opinions, both good and bad.

What I wrote wasn’t coming from a place of attack at all.
I was just answering what you asked me:shrug:
I didn’t mention seeking prayerful support -I was stating that if I felt “frustrated” (or something else negative) about someone’s thread that I would pray to practice self control before posting.

I wasn’t suggesting the “have you considered “professional” help bit” was a huge issue-that’s a fine statement providing that the person who stating it is coming from a pure place (which sometimes is & sometimes isn’t the case) - the issue was the numerous posters that decided on a “beat up” or “call out” for me in particular for having numerous threads.Thats what I was saying was not being done on other people’s numerous threads.
I never said someone was “attacking” me for not agreeing with my view point-there were many posters who disagreed with my view point & had/have their own different one and stated it in a kind,“level” way.
What i was saying was hurtful/upsetting was that some people responded in an unkind way (putting out their frustration or one even mentioned a snarky response should be expected etc) not that people had different views then me about looks/excessive focus on looks.

If someone didn’t like my thread so much that it made them want to respond rudely they could just not answer?

I didn’t make the mention about your mum as an attack & I’m sorry if it was taken that way.
What I was saying,objectively,is that anyone (me,you or other) can sometimes project something on our “own feelings” onto someone’s thread.That if we have a certain life experience that sometimes that might cause an extra sensitivity/anger/other neg emotion if come across a certain thread topic (especially repeated).
That’s just human nature.It wasn’t just about you but can be me or anyone.It helps us all to be honest with ourselves & understand why we post what we post to someone’s thread( or the tone).
That may or may not be the case-just something to consider/reflect.

For example, one girls wrote on CAF at least 3 or 4 posts on whether some guy likes her but there wern’t unkind responses on hers from people mad that she was still “stuck on the issue” or getting mad that she “clearly hadn’t took their advice”?

 

[Elena321]

Are you worried your husband might leave you? Are you worried that your genetic disorders might eventually make you unlovable? Oh, Sweetie…that is not cultural. Anyone old enough to have a wrinkle or a grey hair can understand that! :console:

That is a big burden to carry all by yourself. Find someone to talk to, someone who can help you talk to your husband. Most husbands suffer enough when they see their wife’s health declining. Be very careful how you broach this subject with him, get some help in advance, because many husbands are deeply hurt by the insinuation that they would be as shallow and unreliable as other men are. Many men in the very countries that prize beauty will attach their masculinity to the unquestionable strength of their personal virtue. You don’t want to turn an understandable fit of insecurity into an unintended attack on your husband as a person, let alone as a man.

Hang in there, though. This is emotions talking. That does not mean it is not real. It means that there is a limit to how much rational arguments will touch it. This problem needs emotional care. Try to find that, just as surely as you go to the doctor when your body needs healing. Do remember to take care of your husband’s emotions, though, too. You are in this together.

Thankyou for you kind and thoughtful reply Easterjoy.
With me I’m not married yet.
I’m still single so it more a concern for the future.
Maybe unlovable,but even if not unlovable than TBH “unsatisfiable” (ie:leaving,cheating,or wandering eye)
It helps to hear from men with different sorts of mind sets/perspectives when I am surrounded by people with an “excessive importance on beauty” mentality.

It never occurred to me that any men would get hurt by the suggestion that they are unreliable as other men.

 

[Elena321]

Sometimes yes they may have a guilt or some such that makes them annoyed if your thread casts light on a failing of theirs. Or in some cases they may see issue with it for more legit reasons (see above example)

There of degrees of emoathy and caring etc. But in some cases somwone givinging you advise (whether they are objectively right or wrong) they think they gave you good advise that will help you and to see you disregard it is to in their eyes see you harm yourself. And for some people that can cause great pain.

There’s a lot of wisdom & insight into what you are saying.
At the same time though,if they do have guilt or something else that’s “theirs” that makes them extra annoyed at mine in particular thread why wouldn’t they reflect on that instead of expressing that “externally” & risk hurting me(or any other OP in another situation)?
Even if it’s the more legit reason that you mentioned,they could still just not post…

 

[Elena321]

A lack of understanding what love actually is. Believing it is some feeling as opposed to an act of the will, of willing the good of the other simply because they are–obviously it’s easier said than done, but it is important for us to keep our eye on what love actually is. I’m called to love my wife – to sacrifice for her–as Christ loved and sacrificed for me–it’s got nothing to do with how I feel today or what I might get out of it, or what my wife does.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

But if it’s not to do with the feeling what about the feeling of “falling in love”.
If just an act of the will,than couldn’t anyone marry anyone (no need for compatibility or romantic feeling)?

 

[Elena321]

She didn’t say it in a stuck up way. We were looking at pictures and she looked bad in most of them. But then we came across one she liked and she made that comment

I feel like guys are into insecure women, but those who keep it to themselves because they like to feel as if they are needed or whatever. Maybe I’m just surrounded by manipulative men who are afraid of women, lol

& my brothers are kind of ashamed of me. They like hanging out with my other sister (younger). They’ll talk to me if I looked my best, other than that, nope

Maybe they misinterpreted her or maybe it’s like you said-they want to feel needed and threatened by a women appearing to be confident if themselves are insecure(the guys)?

That’s a shame your brother feels that way.
Hopefully he will change as he gets a bit older…

 

[LethalMouse]

There’s a lot of wisdom & insight into what you are saying.
At the same time though,if they do have guilt or something else that’s “theirs” that makes them extra annoyed at mine in particular thread why wouldn’t they reflect on that instead of expressing that “externally” & risk hurting me(or any other OP in another situation)?
Even if it’s the more legit reason that you mentioned,they could still just not post…

The pitfalls of humanity. Emotions etc. I once asked a question and it was “when the motive is gone, you are totally caught why would someone keep lying?”

The answer was “I do that too, it makes me feel better about me”

So some if guilty are literally NEEDING to post for themselves. In fact the level of disorders get interesting. Some people go online and join a cancer forum and tell their story, just for the sympathy. NEVER having cancer, NEVER seeking money or any sensible gain…just weird anonymous attention.

I think to varying degrees many have some weird form of:

nhs.uk/Conditions/Munchausens-syndrome/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Anyhow… I remember reading once a millionare woman did this sort of thing, not only did she not get any material gains, she gave LOTS of money in seemingly self interested efforts to cure “her” disease. Until later it was found out she just liked being in those circles and was totally healthy

Then as you said for the legit reasons, can we always shut our mouths when we see something? When you know you should let your kid sink/swim but can’t not step in. It is psychology either way. Also being a public forum it IS NOT all about you persay. They might see that others who search will happen upon the thread and if only seeing what they deem “bad” things, it will do future readers a great disservice.

More so, if they think what you are saying is disordered in a way they may feel especially compelled to jump in for the sake of future readers.

So given for example the force of which you speak in a sense and the negativity you bring in some ways, I could see right/wrong someone deeming a future onlooker as associating your ideas with “being catholic” which would in a sense if they are right be very bad for evangelization when a reader reads this and they feel compelled to ensure the onlooker reads their post of being “catholic” according to them etc.

 

[LethalMouse]

But if it’s not to do with the feeling what about the feeling of “falling in love”.
**If just an act of the will,than couldn’t anyone marry anyone **(no need for compatibility or romantic feeling)?

YEAH, hence human history and arranged marriages. Given cultural tendencies toward doing things in a similar to bible fashion arranged marriages still destroy “love” marriages in the non divorce. If we are claiming religion and sin of divorce maybe western ideals aren’t so great?

Since I have been secular I can give a good example, I have had FWB and I warn that my actions are not and indicator of any deeper thing. By default I treat them basically like a girlfriend, even with some saying that as my sex buddy they were treated more “loved” than with those who were in love with them. In my case it is just my default nature to act that way, but as stated an act of will. If you act that way regardless of butterflies in the stomach, you can’t have too bad a time.

Plus given human psychology you fall in and out of love, it is act of will love that carries you through the out part, and if you are with someone you did not love first, eventually if you both do what you should you will have in love times.

Think…well IDK your experience, but sometimes you date someone for 3 days and fall in love, sometimes you date for months or more before you do. So if people can go monogamous serious dating without “in Love” and function like any other couple, why not a married do the same? I have known some really good couples together like a year or so and one or both claim not “quite in love” but you couldn’t tell compared to in love couples. and since bf/gf today is usually a close simulated marriage relationship, if they can we all can.

 

[Rosebud77]

But if it’s not to do with the feeling what about the feeling of “falling in love”.
If just an act of the will,than couldn’t anyone marry anyone (no need for compatibility or romantic feeling)?

Is marriage really such a huge thing in life? It never was with me ever.

 

[Elena321]

So given for example the force of which you speak in a sense and the negativity you bring in some ways, I could see right/wrong someone deeming a future onlooker as associating your ideas with “being catholic” which would in a sense if they are right be very bad for evangelization when a reader reads this and they feel compelled to ensure the onlooker reads their post of being “catholic” according to them etc.

I wouldn’t want someone to associate my ideas/threads with being the ideal Catholic but just to see them as one persons questions-in the same way I guess as when other posters have asked on CAF “Does this guy like me” or “I called my mother disgusting…” or “I hate my younger sister because…”-not the most spiritual questions but just related to that thread maker.

I don’t mean for my speech to come across as forceful.I think it comes across as forceful sometimes (in this thread) is because I’m too sensitive.
A less sensitive and wiser person would just ignore any mean comments and focus on/find gratitude in the kind comments but If I see someone post something not kind/not charitable spirit/tone, I then sometimes think that their negative perception/comment of me also represents everyone elses (posting on this thread) perception of me (like they are speaking for everyone) & then i get affected more than should & my response might sound to have some force.
And also because I feel hurt/don’t understand that my threads are targeted but other’s multiple ones aren’t.

I also asked in the thread heading something more lighthearted -“what do you (man) look/looked for in wife” but I feel that got hijacked(distracted) by people that just wanted to “attack” me for still posting about similar topics & only a few people got to answer that…

 

[Sarcelle]

Is marriage really such a huge thing in life? It never was with me ever.

It isn’t with me either.

For the majority, it is what marks the coming of age, of being a real adult.

Now this is less so in the Western world, but in Asia, it is practically required for every adult to get married. In fact the Chinese believe that there is a special place in hell for singles.

 

[LethalMouse]

I wouldn’t want someone to associate my ideas/threads with being the ideal Catholic but just to see them as one persons questions-in the same way I guess as when other posters have asked on CAF “Does this guy like me” or “I called my mother disgusting…” or “I hate my younger sister because…”-not the most spiritual questions but just related to that thread maker.

I don’t mean for my speech to come across as forceful.I think it comes across as forceful sometimes (in this thread) is because I’m too sensitive.
A less sensitive and wiser person would just ignore any mean comments and focus on/find gratitude in the kind comments but If I see someone post something not kind/not charitable spirit/tone, I then sometimes think that their negative perception/comment of me also represents everyone elses (posting on this thread) perception of me (like they are speaking for everyone) & then i get affected more than should & my response might sound to have some force.
And also because I feel hurt/don’t understand that my threads are targeted but other’s multiple ones aren’t.

I also asked in the thread heading something more lighthearted -“what do you (man) look/looked for in wife” but I feel that got hijacked(distracted) by people that just wanted to “attack” me for still posting about similar topics & only a few people got to answer that…

I undderstand, but also remember a new person thinking about Catholiscm from a interested standpoint who reads even some of the posts you mentioned not yours like the known scruples guy “disgusting to the mother” many say being catholic equalls “everything is a sin and you are all going to hell”

Family Guy when being offered books on potty training he says “well we are catholic”

And then the book the salesman says “Oh so you want this one : You Are A Naughty Child and That Is Consentrated Evil Coming out of you”

So as if I were to say hmmmm what is catholic about and happen upoon a scruples thread I would believe that “joke” from Tv and say “wow they really do think everything is a sin” and move on bc I dint want to join people who are so negative to what I know naturally is okay.

So while we do not speak in preaching many who read our thoughts think them formed by being catholic. So “is it a sin to poop?” Even being asked in errror provides ammo to the thought that the nature of Catholiscm is to beat one down into such thinking.

 

[claymcdermott]

So true LethalMouse.

Also, yes. The moment a woman turns 36 she is done, 31 if she has never done professional modeling, but none of that couture or avante gard stuff, that doesn’t count. Combination philistine philanderer.

I am in my twenties and have already had three wives. First one, I married and she stayed the same looking, but I got better looking as I entered my 2Os, so, Divorce! Second wife forgot to put on make up one day, so, DIVORCE! Third girl was good looking enough but could not produce a male heir so I cut her head off.

Double bonus, because being a widower gives you massive street cred, as any combination pua uxoricidal madman can tell you.

But seriously Elena, I am a fairly unattractive human, so I definitely feel the insecurities about physical appearance from time to time. But, I am WAY better at dealing with them than I was even a year ago, I think. Without oversharing, you get over it. Life beats you until you realize what is important and the small stuff doesn’t bother you as much as it did. From time to time it still bothers me a little, but that passes, and I have reached a point where I do not dwell on it somehow.

point being it gets better.

 

[MarkInOregon]

But if it’s not to do with the feeling what about the feeling of “falling in love”.
If just an act of the will,than couldn’t anyone marry anyone (no need for compatibility or romantic feeling)?

I’m not dismissing the feeling of falling in love–romantic feelings, and I’d be a liar if I said they did not play a part when I first met my wife–but what I am saying it that we shouldn’t confuse those with actual love and that confusing the two is what gets us into trouble.

Let me ask: when we sin and turn our backs on God does God’s love for us fade? Or is God longing for us to return to him? Is God out on the road waiting and watching for our return?

Let me ask: When our children misbehave or do things we disapprove of does our love for them fade? Or do we continue to love them, long for their return, and want the best for them?

When I first met my wife and we dated and we married–I can look back now and realize that I really didn’t understand what love was. Feelings come and go and come again and go again as we progress through life’s ups and downs, through its challenges, what should remain constant is love–is my willing the best for my wife regardless of my current feelings. As I said this can be a challenge when we’ve had a bad day, feel slighted or unappreciated, have a need that is not being met or are just simply overwhelmed by life and it’s challenges, but regardless I am still called to love her–I can’t just blow that off today or for the rest of my life because I don’t feel like it. When we reduce love to a simple feeling–well then it doesn’t remain constant, and this is when we get into trouble.

None of this is to imply that I don’t fail to properly love my wife at times–more often than I’d like and more often than I am sure she’d like, after all I am a weak human being who is prone to sin, it just means–I now have a different understanding of what it means to love --not just my wife but everyone (and that’s where I really struggle). Realizing what love truly is provides a check for me–a reminder when I am in a bad mood–of what it means to love my wife and what I need to do.

If we love as God loves how can love fail? I could be wrong but I think we are called to attempt to love in that way.

The peace of Christ,
Mark