Question for Mormons

[RebeccaJ]

No no Rebecca,
We both believe that he is the combination of both Human and Divine. How you twist the LDS veiw to be Demi-god but not the RCC perplexes me.

This is escpecially relevant when you consider the catholic statement :
"It’s said that words are ineffective when it comes to describing the concept of this metaphysical union."
Where is your charity in acknowledging that no person can effectively describe this metaphysical union? The catholics clearly admit they are challenged

It might be better to let other Catholics explain to you the truth, since Mormons have a built in bias of former Mormons, like myself.

 

[LongJourney]

it is NOT our doctrine that God had Sexual Intercourse with Mary
You distort truth which makes you a liar.
2 nephi 9:34
34 Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell.

I Nephi 11

[17] And I said unto him: I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things.

[18] And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest** is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh.**

[19] And it came to pass that I beheld that she was carried away in the Spirit; and after she had been carried away in the Spirit for the space of a time the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!

[20] And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms.

Even the BoM says it, and you still deny it???

 

[PopeBono]

I Nephi 11

Even the BoM says it, and you still deny it???

Are you saying you don’t believe that Christ had a body while on the earth? I know that is not the Catholic belief. That must be your own belief.

 

[RebeccaJ]

from lds.org

“The coming of a part-divine part-mortal Jesus into the world, Son of Mary and Only Begotten of the Father, was an absolute necessity.”

 

[LongJourney]

“After the manner of the flesh” means that she conceived through sexual intercourse with God. Your persistent denial of the deeper teachings of the church is a gross deception.

Have a good day.

 

[PopeBono]

Well it is obvious there are disagreements on this matter. I have not read every comment that was posted by LDS church leaders about the nature of Jesus Christ, His Heavenly Father and Mary. All of the comments that I have read by our Church leaders do not say in any manner that God had sex with Mary. They only witness that God is the father of Christ through Mary. If Christ be the Son of God and Mary be his Mother.
I as a Member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints find no blasphemy in the fact that we believe that God would espouse himself to Mary before filling Mary with the spirit of Christ. We know of no other means than that of the immaculate conception that you believe in. There is no scriptural doctrine to back anything but that up. If anyone shares any other idea it is strictly that persons theory and not doctrine. We firmly believe that Marriage is a commandment of God and we believe God abides by his own commandments. If this is Blasphemy to you then so be it but we have the right to understand things differently. Ultimately how the immaculate conception happened is of small worth. Especially in the context of us taking our time arguing over our beliefs rather that living Christs teaching and begging for his grace and mercy.

 

[PopeBono]

“After the manner of the flesh” means that she conceived through sexual intercourse with God. Your persistent denial of the deeper teachings of the church is a gross deception.
I don’t think anyone would interpret manner of the flesh means sexual intercourse. It is stating that Gods Son came to this earth in the flesh to clearly state that he had a body while on earth.
Have a good day.

 

[amontoya]

No no Rebecca,
We both believe that he is the combination of both Human and Divine. How you twist the LDS veiw to be Demi-god but not the RCC perplexes me.

This is escpecially relevant when you consider the catholic statement :
"It’s said that words are ineffective when it comes to describing the concept of this metaphysical union."
Where is your charity in acknowledging that no person can effectively describe this metaphysical union? The catholics clearly admit they are challenged

Catholics do not believe that Jesus Christ is a combination of humanity and divinity, but rather that He is at once, completely human and completely divine. There is no mixture or combination of these two natures. Each is distinct from the other.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

“464 The unique and altogether singular event of the Incarnation of the Son of God does not mean that Jesus Christ is part God and part man, nor does it imply that he is the result of a confused mixture of the divine and the human. He became truly man while remaining truly God. Jesus Christ is true God and true man.
During the first centuries, the Church had to defend and clarify this truth of faith against the heresies that falsified it.”

“481 Jesus Christ possesses two natures, one divine and the other human, not confused, but united in the one person of God’s Son.”

I believe part of the confusion between Mormons and Catholics stems from our different understandings of “Person” and “Nature;” which is also the source of disagreement in regards to the doctrine of the Trinity. Catholics believe that God is three Persons in one Nature, while the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity is one Person with two Natures.

Catholics believe that without losing His divine nature, Jesus assumed a human nature. He did not need to be given either nature from Heavenly Father’s “seed.”

 

[PRmerger]

No no Rebecca,
We both believe that he is the combination of both Human and Divine. How you twist the LDS veiw to be Demi-god but not the RCC perplexes me.

No. He is not a “combination” of humanity and divinity

This is escpecially relevant when you consider the catholic statement :
"It’s said that words are ineffective when it comes to describing the concept of this metaphysical union."
Where is your charity in acknowledging that no person can effectively describe this metaphysical union? The catholics clearly admit they are challenged

Indeed. However, we ought to be very careful about our choice of words. While words can be inadequate to articulate the fullness of the truth about the Dual Nature of Christ, words are important and can change the nature of the discussion quite profoundly.

 

[PRmerger]

from lds.org

“The coming of a part-divine part-mortal Jesus into the world, Son of Mary and Only Begotten of the Father, was an absolute necessity.”

Yikes!

Like I said, I know practically nothing about Mormonism…but this quote–and I went to the link–seems quite…um…disturbing.

 

[amontoya]

Well it is obvious there are disagreements on this matter. I have not read every comment that was posted by LDS church leaders about the nature of Jesus Christ, His Heavenly Father and Mary. All of the comments that I have read by our Church leaders do not say in any manner that God had sex with Mary. They only witness that God is the father of Christ through Mary. If Christ be the Son of God and Mary be his Mother.
I as a Member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints find no blasphemy in the fact that we believe that God would espouse himself to Mary before filling Mary with the spirit of Christ. We know of no other means than that of the immaculate conception that you believe in. There is no scriptural doctrine to back anything but that up. If anyone shares any other idea it is strictly that persons theory and not doctrine. We firmly believe that Marriage is a commandment of God and we believe God abides by his own commandments. If this is Blasphemy to you then so be it but we have the right to understand things differently. Ultimately how the immaculate conception happened is of small worth. Especially in the context of us taking our time arguing over our beliefs rather that living Christs teaching and begging for his grace and mercy.

The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception relates to Mary’s conception, not that of Jesus. The conception of Jesus is the doctrine of the Incarnation.

 

[Todd520]

Yikes!

Like I said, I know practically nothing about Mormonism…but this quote–and I went to the link–seems quite…um…disturbing.

You make me laugh

fully divine + fully human = Christ
Thus, Christ is part divine and part human,
Chirst is more than each of them alone.

 

[amontoya]

You make me laugh

fully divine + fully human = Christ
Thus, Christ is part divine and part human,
Chirst is more than each of them alone.

He is more than each alone, and He is not either partially.

 

[PRmerger]

You make me laugh

fully divine + fully human = Christ
Thus, Christ is part divine and part human,
Chirst is more than each of them alone.

Absolutely not! What you are proposing is a heresy that was put to rest centuries ago.

I guess, from what I’m learning here, this heresy, like a zombie , just won’t go away. Was it Joseph Smith or Brigham Young who re-claimed this zombie?

 

[Jim_Dandy]

You make me laugh

fully divine + fully human = Christ
Thus, Christ is part divine and part human,
Chirst is more than each of them alone.

Todd, you make me cry. Your understanding of Catholicism is pathetic. Christ is not part divine and part human. He is all (fully) human in His humanity and all (fully) divine in His divinity. You posit a caricature of the God-man.

Jim Dandy

 

[rinnie]

Hey guys I have been gone all week-end and I am just getting caught up. So what I am seeing here is our biggest difference is with the Trinity for one thing.

Now I feel it could be safe to say that Mormons do agree that Jesus was Adam then is this not correct? Okay lets start there.

Then you guys do believe in reincarnation? Which would as you can see be a big problem for a Catholic.

Also let me explain the Trinity to you as we believe. And you can comment on what you disagree with my statement.

I will try to make this as simple as possible.

We believe Jesus came into the world to share his Fathers love and knowledge that will are callled to be adopted children of God. That is why Jesus revealed that God is Father in a unheard of way. He is Father not only by being creator he is eternally Father by his relationship to his Son. No one knows the Father except the son (Matt 11:27)

God is unchanging. God is both eternal and changeless.

When Christ sent his apostles he instructed them to baptise in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

The Father IS a distinct person, the Son IS a distinct person and the Holy Spirit IS a distinct person But they all have ONE DIVINITY EQUAL glory and co-eternal majesty.

It is by Jesus that the Trinity became known to us. Jesus said no one knows the Son except the Father and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son wishes to reveal him. It is by him revealing God as Father and himself as Gods Son, Jesus made know to us the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God who from the beginning was with God and who will now dwell as God with us after Jesus’ death resurrection and ascension in glory.

So do you see that there is only ONE GOD. The Holy Spiirt is sent to us both by the Father in the NAME of the Son and by the Son in Person once he had returned to the Father. The coming of the Holy Spirit COMPLETES the revelation of the Trinity.

The 3 divine Persons do not share th one divinity among themselves but each of them is GOD whole and entire. Yet each divine person is really distinct from one another. That is why we say God has ONE DIVINE nature and Three divine persons.

They have all existed with God from the beginning because there is only ONE GOD.

 

[dianaiad]

This was a very unnecessary comment.

Christianity does not teach that Jesus was a demi-god.

Jesus was FULLY God and FULLY human.

Rebecca was the one who used the term ‘demi-god.’ No Mormon would ever refer to Him in that manner, since we too believe that He is "fully human and fully divine,’ or rather, wholly God, the second Member of the Godhead.

 

[ParkerD]

Hey guys I have been gone all week-end and I am just getting caught up. So what I am seeing here is our biggest difference is with the Trinity for one thing.

Now I feel it could be safe to say that Mormons do agree that Jesus was Adam then is this not correct? Okay lets start there.

Then you guys do believe in reincarnation? Which would as you can see be a big problem for a Catholic.

Also let me explain the Trinity to you as we believe. And you can comment on what you disagree with my statement.

I will try to make this as simple as possible.

We believe Jesus came into the world to share his Fathers love and knowledge that will are callled to be adopted children of God. That is why Jesus revealed that God is Father in a unheard of way. He is Father not only by being creator he is eternally Father by his relationship to his Son. No one knows the Father except the son (Matt 11:27)

God is unchanging. God is both eternal and changeless.

When Christ sent his apostles he instructed them to baptise in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

The Father IS a distinct person, the Son IS a distinct person and the Holy Spirit IS a distinct person But they all have ONE DIVINITY EQUAL glory and co-eternal majesty.

It is by Jesus that the Trinity became known to us. Jesus said no one knows the Son except the Father and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son wishes to reveal him. It is by him revealing God as Father and himself as Gods Son, Jesus made know to us the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God who from the beginning was with God and who will now dwell as God with us after Jesus’ death resurrection and ascension in glory.

So do you see that there is only ONE GOD. The Holy Spiirt is sent to us both by the Father in the NAME of the Son and by the Son in Person once he had returned to the Father. The coming of the Holy Spirit COMPLETES the revelation of the Trinity.

The 3 divine Persons do not share th one divinity among themselves but each of them is GOD whole and entire. Yet each divine person is really distinct from one another. That is why we say God has ONE DIVINE nature and Three divine persons.

They have all existed with God from the beginning because there is only ONE GOD.

Hi, Rinnie,
I don’t know how you’re going to take the news (nor how you ever got the impression in the first place other than perhaps someone getting confused by the understanding that Adam is Micheal the Archangel):

The LDS (Mormons) don’t believe Jesus is or was Adam.

The LDS believe in “One God” as stated in the Book of Mormon and the Intercessory prayer of the Savior.

Have a wonderful week, Rinnie.

 

[rinnie]

No, they aren’t 'still mormons." In fact…they never WERE.

Sorry for the confusion, but Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, though they are all three “Restorationist” churches, don’t share a whole lot of doctrine, nor do they share beginnings.

Yes I am learning that. Sorry for my ignorance. I some how always thought that it was all in the same lines of belief. I am learning now there is quite a world of difference between the 3. But I am learning

 

[rinnie]

rinnie…

(sigh)

Yes, we believe that Lucifer and Jesus are brothers…but only in the sense that all spirits are siblings, sharing God as our Father. In the sense that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God, He has NO siblings. In the sense that Jesus was born to a mortal mother, He becomes ‘brother’ to all of us who have been born…and in neither of those cases can Lucifer be called His brother.

This little bit of silliness was winkled out of the belief we have that mankind was created spiritually…and that there are no special creations; angels are simply people with a job, for instance. In that sense, then, we believe that Lucifer is your brother, and mine, as well as Jesus’. There is no more to the relationship than that, though.

Okay I can understand what you are saying there. Thankx!