Question for Muslim!!

[elwill]

Well done elwill and thank you for explaining the good points of Islamic law about cleanliness and inheritance. I am sure that the real law about inheritance in Islam is far better than any in the world. I feel that christians do not have law about inheritance. So they should not complain about the Islamic laws.

elwill you have explained most of the points discussed here and I thank you very much. It is all understood very well. These laws are for the Muslims. They do not have any complaint. There is no need for any christian to complain about Islamic laws unless he/she brings out better laws from their own sources / scripture (BibleNT).

thank you for your encouragment , planten

 

[eichenb2]

One day I saw my co-worker who is muslim and she is a female that she didn’t pray as usual. So I asked why in Islam, women don’t allow to pray (sholat) if they have their period.
and she answered that because on that time, women is not pure. Then I asked again do you believe that God created men and women equally? she said yes. Then I asked again so why women are called not pure when they have their period if you said God created men and women equally? and she couldn’t answer it.

So I need to know this answer from my felllow muslim:

1. Do you believe that God created men and women equally?
2. if Yes, then why women are called not pure when they have their period can’t pray?
3. is there any of time of men which will be called not pure and can’t pray?

1. God, according to Islam, created Men and Women equally, but not the SAME.
2. The cycles of a woman are a hardship and God wished to not compound her hardship by requiring ritual prayer. She may make as much supplication as she please. Also, she may read Quran while on her period. Perhaps, your misunderstanding my lie in confusing Islamic ritual prayer with Du’a or supplication. Du’aa can be done by anyone, even in the state of impurity. Ritual prayer of Salaat has specific ritual purity requirements. This is similar to rituals that priests observe in the mass.
3. Absolutely, a man or woman may be impure for a number of reason. Menses, though, is on cause that is peculiar to woman.

 

[eichenb2]

More on equality between man & woman :

01) Female inheritance is half the male and even less than that in some situations.
(Quran 4:11):
“Allah enjoins you concerning your children: The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females; then if they are more than two females, they shall have two-thirds of what the deceased has left, and if there is one, she shall have the half;…”

يُوصِيكُمُ اللَّهُ فِي أَوْلَادِكُمْ لِلذَّكَرِ مِثْلُ حَظِّ الْأُنْثَيَيْنِ
​

(E) (A)

02) Woman is deficient in intelligence & religion, and her witness is half the man.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301:
Once Allah’s Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, “O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women).” They asked, “Why is it so, O Allah’s Apostle ?” He replied, “You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.” The women asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?” He said, “Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?” They replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn’t it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?” The women replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her religion.”

صحيح البخاري:
خرج رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏في أضحى أو فطر إلى المصلى فمر على النساء فقال يا معشر النساء ‏ ‏تصدقن فإني ‏ ‏أريتكن ‏ ‏أكثر أهل النار فقلن وبم يا رسول الله قال تكثرن ‏ ‏اللعن ‏ ‏وتكفرن ‏ ‏العشير ‏ ‏ما رأيت من ناقصات عقل ودين أذهب ‏ ‏للب ‏ ‏الرجل الحازم من إحداكن قلن وما نقصان ديننا وعقلنا يا رسول الله قال أليس شهادة المرأة مثل نصف شهادة الرجل قلن بلى قال فذلك من نقصان عقلها أليس إذا حاضت لم تصل ولم تصم قلن بلى قال فذلك من نقصان دينها ‏
​

(E) (A)

03) Woman can’t travel alone.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 29, Number 85:
"The Prophet said, “A woman should not travel except with a Dhu-Mahram (her husband or a man with whom that woman cannot marry at all according to the Islamic Jurisprudence), and no man may visit her except in the presence of a Dhu-Mahram.” A man got up and said, “O Allah’s Apostle! I intend to go to such and such an army and my wife wants to perform Hajj.” The Prophet said (to him), “Go along with her (to Hajj).”

صحيح البخاري:
قال النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏لا تسافر المرأة إلا مع ذي محرم ولا يدخل عليها رجل إلا ومعها محرم فقال رجل يا رسول الله إني أريد أن أخرج في جيش كذا وكذا وامرأتي تريد الحج فقال اخرج معها ‏
​

(E) (A)

1. Female inheritance was half, because men had to support whole households. Women did not.
2. This was an admonish for women to be grateful and faithful to thier husbands. Men and women are truly different and they, each, are prone to particular types of sins. This must be read in the context of 7th century Arabia. Also, according to the hadeeth, “the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women).” If the global proportion of women to men is 52% to 48% (for example) and the inhabitants of Hell are proportionate to the population, would this not be reliable?
3. This hadeeth also must be read in the context of the culture of that time and place. The was not central government or highway patrol. Along this line, would it have been acceptable for Joseph to send Mary and Jesus off to Egypt unescorted? I would hope that Christians would see that as reprehensible behaviour; as Joseph was the guardian and protector of them.

 

[planten]

1. Female inheritance was half, because men had to support whole households. Women did not.
2. This was an admonish for women to be grateful and faithful to thier husbands. Men and women are truly different and they, each, are prone to particular types of sins. This must be read in the context of 7th century Arabia. Also, according to the hadeeth, “the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women).” If the global proportion of women to men is 52% to 48% (for example) and the inhabitants of Hell are proportionate to the population, would this not be reliable?
3. This hadeeth also must be read in the context of the culture of that time and place. The was not central government or highway patrol. Along this line, would it have been acceptable for Joseph to send Mary and Jesus off to Egypt unescorted? I would hope that Christians would see that as reprehensible behaviour; as Joseph was the guardian and protector of them.

Post #43 and #44 from eichenb2 are very good, giving us some points to understand, common points such as Joseph taking Mary and new born Jesus to Egypt. Joseph was the guardian and he did it well. It was sensible step. Joseph was told by God, care of an angel, to take Jesus to Egypt.

The posts of eichenb2 explain quite a few points being raised in this thread against Islam. Thanks to eichenb2.

 

[paully]

Thanks for the explantion. So now the question is why when women get their period will be said as impure condition? which this condition is natural thing.

Ah…of course the Old Testament has such silliness in it. I think what may need to be done is to investigate thoroughly what implication this had on the culture at the time. As Christians we all know that we are all “impure”. That’s why we sin. I don’t understand how a physical condition put on women by God could make them any more or less “impure” than anyone else.

 

[eichenb2]

Ah…of course the Old Testament has such silliness in it. I think what may need to be done is to investigate thoroughly what implication this had on the culture at the time. As Christians we all know that we are all “impure”. That’s why we sin. I don’t understand how a physical condition put on women by God could make them any more or less “impure” than anyone else.

The women is not impure in and of herself. The blood is impure. Please allow me to reiterate that the woman is released from the responsibility of ritual prayer. She is NOT being punished.

 

[PA650]

Well done elwill and thank you for explaining the good points of Islamic law about cleanliness and inheritance. I am sure that the real law about inheritance in Islam is far better than any in the world. I feel that christians do not have law about inheritance. So they should not complain about the Islamic laws.

elwill you have explained most of the points discussed here and I thank you very much. It is all understood very well. These laws are for the Muslims. They do not have any complaint. There is no need for any christian to complain about Islamic laws unless he/she brings out better laws from their own sources / scripture (BibleNT).

Partly pertinent to the quotation. In the contemporary world, civil law has displaced religious law and if civil laws are in accord with Catholic teachings, I certainly have no problem with them. In addition, it seems Muslims are unable to understand the concept of secularism.

 

[Jay53]

actually , it was a hadeeth not quran . it was an event which happened in the time of mohammed (pbuh)
someone asked the prophet this question about his wife , and the prophet adviced him to travel with his wife to protect her
event from his history , from his life

Then why are Muslim men subjecting women to this now?

 

[Jay53]

forgot to tell you another thing
women are subjected to danger in any time , specifically when she is alone

Of course, but it’s not just women. Some women are more able to take care of themselves than some men! :nunchuk:

 

[planten]

Of course, but it’s not just women. Some women are more able to take care of themselves than some men! :nunchuk:

Yes, that is true. In Islam, women could inherit and hold property. They could do business and employ men in their service.

A good example of that was the lady named Khadijah. A mosque has been recently opened in Berlin in her name and built on the funds provided by the Ahmadi ladies.

That lady named Khadijah was a widow. She was wealthy and used to (employ and) send men on business tour to Syria etc. with her goods. She engaged Muhammad for her business. Muhammad went with merchandise to Syria and returned with good profit. He was not alone. He had other servants of Khadijah under his command.

On return, the servants praised Muhammad for his piety and honesty to Khadijah. Khjadijah was 40 years old. She was so impressed by the good work of Muhammad that she proposed to Muhammad (who was 25 years old) for marriage. Muhammad accepted the proposal and they were married.

After they were married for 15 years and had some children, at the age of 40 years, the first revelation came to Muhammad in a cave (called Hiraa). That was "Recite in the name of thy Lord who created. Created humankind from a clot…"
Yes some ladies can be superior to other men. They can order their subordinates for different things. They can be more educated than many men. There is no limit to their progress in Islam.

The problem is the mean minded Muslim people who have reversed all the good things of Islam. They have neglected their proper duty of Love, discipline and self control. Nowadays Many Muslims do not represent Islam .

 

[staffsgt7]

Yes, that is true. In Islam, women could inherit and hold property. They could do business and employ men in their service.

A good example of that was the lady named Khadijah. A mosque has been recently opened in Berlin in her name and built on the funds provided by the Ahmadi ladies.

That lady named Khadijah was a widow. She was wealthy and used to (employ and) send men on business tour to Syria etc. with her goods. She engaged Muhammad for her business. Muhammad went with merchandise to Syria and returned with good profit. He was not alone. He had other servants of Khadijah under his command.

On return, the servants praised Muhammad for his piety and honesty to Khadijah. Khjadijah was 40 years old. She was so impressed by the good work of Muhammad that she proposed to Muhammad (who was 25 years old) for marriage. Muhammad accepted the proposal and they were married.

After they were married for 15 years and had some children, at the age of 40 years, the first revelation came to Muhammad in a cave (called Hiraa). That was "Recite in the name of thy Lord who created. Created humankind from a clot…"
Yes some ladies can be superior to other men. They can order their subordinates for different things. They can be more educated than many men. There is no limit to their progress in Islam.

The problem is the mean minded Muslim people who have reversed all the good things of Islam. They have neglected their proper duty of Love, discipline and self control. Nowadays Many Muslims do not represent Islam .

When in history have Muslims proven themselves to be loving, disciplined and having self control? In the history of Islam, their history of Jihad, has never been one about such things. I don’t find it in the book of their laws either. They are to do certain things but it is never out of love for another, it is more out of fear of themselves going to hell and Allah forgetting them there (unless they die while killing unbelievers - that ensures a ticket straight to your heaven).

Don’t start quoting surahs that are abrogated because you know that I will catch those.

 

[elwill]

Then why are Muslim men subjecting women to this now?

i don’t know
not all of them do that , some muslims allows them either , it depends on the case
all i wanna to say that the wisdom from this law is to protect and support the women not to suppress them

 

[seraphime2008]

actually , it was a hadeeth not quran . it was an event which happened in the time of mohammed (pbuh)
someone asked the prophet this question about his wife , and the prophet adviced him to travel with his wife to protect her
event from his history , from his life

does a ahadeeth make it applicable to sharia law? especially this one?

 

[seraphime2008]

Yes, that is true. In Islam, women could inherit and hold property. They could do business and employ men in their service.

A good example of that was the lady named Khadijah. A mosque has been recently opened in Berlin in her name and built on the funds provided by the Ahmadi ladies.

That lady named Khadijah was a widow. She was wealthy and used to (employ and) send men on business tour to Syria etc. with her goods. She engaged Muhammad for her business. Muhammad went with merchandise to Syria and returned with good profit. He was not alone. He had other servants of Khadijah under his command.

On return, the servants praised Muhammad for his piety and honesty to Khadijah. Khjadijah was 40 years old. She was so impressed by the good work of Muhammad that she proposed to Muhammad (who was 25 years old) for marriage. Muhammad accepted the proposal and they were married.

After they were married for 15 years and had some children, at the age of 40 years, the first revelation came to Muhammad in a cave (called Hiraa). That was "Recite in the name of thy Lord who created. Created humankind from a clot…"
Yes some ladies can be superior to other men. They can order their subordinates for different things. They can be more educated than many men. There is no limit to their progress in Islam.

The problem is the mean minded Muslim people who have reversed all the good things of Islam. They have neglected their proper duty of Love, discipline and self control. Nowadays Many Muslims do not represent Islam .

From your story it seems that pre Muslim Arab had high esteem of woman and equality for men and women, when Islam came, everything turned out to different direction. Your story has a conlicted message to what Islam teaches, that men are supposed to be the keeper and “manager” of his wife’s wealth or welfare. In an era of today when works can be done much without the “muscle” and ladies have proven to be capable of doing many jobs, some husbands sometimes can’t bring home the amount of money that their wifes can. So does that mean that they were breaking Allah’s law?..that can only mean that your Allah can’t see this possibility! I suspect it was more likely that Muhammad introduced this message himself .

 

[seraphime2008]

1. Female inheritance was half, because men had to support whole households. Women did not.
2. This was an admonish for women to be grateful and faithful to thier husbands. Men and women are truly different and they, each, are prone to particular types of sins. This must be read in the context of 7th century Arabia. Also, according to the hadeeth, “the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women).” If the global proportion of women to men is 52% to 48% (for example) and the inhabitants of Hell are proportionate to the population, would this not be reliable?
3. This hadeeth also must be read in the context of the culture of that time and place. The was not central government or highway patrol. Along this line, would it have been acceptable for Joseph to send Mary and Jesus off to Egypt unescorted? I would hope that Christians would see that as reprehensible behaviour; as Joseph was the guardian and protector of them.

1. If a woman has a sick husband who cannot perform his duty of being a breadwinner, what say islam? Is she not supposed to take the responsibility of supporting the household? Is she supposed to get a divorce then?
2. This is ridiculous as if saying that the hadeeth authors were thinking of the census of the world when basing their statement…I don’t think so. Even the Koran itselfs many times explain the paradise as place for men to have orgy, when does it tell about the heaven for women?
3. Of course Joseph was a good guardian and protector of his family. But in the story when Mary visited John’s mother,her cousin, it doesn’t tell that Mary couldn’t go by herself.

 

[staffsgt7]

he mixed everything up , he dosn’t talk about shariah . he just pick up the local laws of some muslims countries , then attached it to shariah

me as a muslim can respond you with reference of teaching of islam , not with reference of laws in some islamic countreis

for example ,no one can give me islamic source which forbided women to not learn or to not drive . the farthest you can do is to say that taliban did that or sudia did that , still no one can back up his openion from quran nor from hadeeth . and if you gave me 10 countries forbidding them i will give you 100 countries dosn’t

beside , you have to realize how his hate for islam blinds him when he talked about honour killing as if it was from shariah and the teaching of islam .
his hatness for islam blinds him to realize that islam against honour killing

I got everything out of the book for Sharia laws. I never mentioned anyone driving or not driving - it depends on the woman’s master if she is allowed to drive or not. Go ask people such as the Saudis why they are inclined to prohibit their property to drive? But I have never brought up driving.

There is no Sharia law that does anything to the man for honor killing his wife, daughters or the women of his family. Some countries might still have some semblence of decency left before Sharia wipes them out and the man might go to jail for a few months, or years, but nothing really is done to him for killing.

In the UK, the honor killings for Muslims is rising to an average of one a month. It will go up like it does in other Muslim countries. It is very convenient that Muslims don’t count those as crimes so people like you can say they are not done or sanctioned in Islam.

The difference between the far superior man made laws and the Allah’s laws is that the treatment of a human being, no matter what they happened to be born, is much more equal under the man made laws. It is apparent that Allah (ok, I really believe that it was Mohammed who thought this stuff up and pinned it on his god but for arguments sake…) didn’t care much for half of his creation. I have read where men such as yourself think all is right with the world because a woman can keep her money.

There is an unlimited number of pics that can be shown of Muslim women who didn’t die and who now suffer burns and scars from failed honor killings.

Why are they forced to wear tents and whole body coverings? That isn’t in the book of Sharia laws. But their owner/masters say they have to wear them and so they do.

I think that this discussion is futile. Reality is what we see, read and hear. Not what the Muslims are trying to tell us what it should be like. Segregation is coming back because Muslim men cannot handle equality between the sexes, or even between Muslim and non-Muslim. And rape, and other nasty things don’t stop just because women are segregated or dressed like tents. And that brings up another inequality. If the women gets raped she is blamed. never mind that we have found out that it is the man who has the mental problems, and Allah should have known that and not made such a law as having to have 4 witnesses. Or was it that Mohammed made that law up when his little child went off with another man and Aisha somehow turned the situation around where she (could do no wrong in Mohammed’s eyes) said that women should have 4 witnesses. Little did she know how many women would die because of what she did.

 

[Sam_777]

Wouldn’t you agree with me that if it is the man’s responsibility to support his parents (when they get old), wife, kids, and widow sisters, then it makes perfect sense for the man to get more money than the woman in inheritance?

No, where is the sacrifice!!!, why we always demand one for one, the person should support his parents and his sister WITHOUT expecting something tangible in return, he should do that for the sake of God…

keep in your mind , how the travel was 1400 years ago

See Jay53 answer…

 

[eichenb2]

1. If a woman has a sick husband who cannot perform his duty of being a breadwinner, what say islam? Is she not supposed to take the responsibility of supporting the household? Is she supposed to get a divorce then?
2. This is ridiculous as if saying that the hadeeth authors were thinking of the census of the world when basing their statement…I don’t think so. Even the Koran itselfs many times explain the paradise as place for men to have orgy, when does it tell about the heaven for women?
3. Of course Joseph was a good guardian and protector of his family. But in the story when Mary visited John’s mother,her cousin, it doesn’t tell that Mary couldn’t go by herself.

1. A Woman can, definitely, be the “breadwinner” in Islam. However, Islamic law does not require that a woman support a man and family. On the contrary, man are required by Islamic law to support the wife and family. Under extraordinary circumstances, though, love and grace are necessary. I have known many Muslims to be in these type of situations and if they desire to work things out…these do.
2. I am simply giving you one justification of the Hadeeth. There are many interpretations. The one thing is does NOT mean is that God dislikes woman. As regards the descriptions of Heaven in the Quran, these may be physical or they may be allegorical. God truly knows. Many western people tend to criticize the Islamic conception of the afterlife for what they perceive as sensuality. I don’t buy it. The underlying misunderstanding is that they are not familiar with Semitic langauge and idioms.
3. As regards the express preference for a male family member accompanying a woman on journeys, I think this is just common sense. It is a preference, but circumstances do chance. You, ironically, are falling into the same trap that many literalist Muslims fall into. Understand that the Shari’ah (Islamic Law) is (notice I used the word IS and not WAS) formulated for Man…NOT Man for Shari’ah.

In SaHiH Muslim:
“Book 6, Number 2457:
Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported that a person came to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I am undone. He (the Holy Prophet) said: What has brought about your ruin? He said: I have had intercourse with my wife during the month of Ramadan. Upon this he (the Holy prophet) said: Can you find a slave to set him free? He said: NO He (the Holy Prophet again) said: Can you observe fast for two consecutive months? He said: No. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Can you provide food to sixty poor people?, He said: No. He then sat down and (in the meanwhile) there was brought to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) a basket which contained dates. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Give these (dates) in charity. He (the man) said: Am I to give to one who is poorer than I? There is no family poorer than mine between the two lava plains of Medina. The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) laughed so that his molar teeth became visible and said: Go and give it to your family to eat.”

 

[eichenb2]

I got everything out of the book for Sharia laws. I never mentioned anyone driving or not driving - it depends on the woman’s master if she is allowed to drive or not. Go ask people such as the Saudis why they are inclined to prohibit their property to drive? But I have never brought up driving.

There is no Sharia law that does anything to the man for honor killing his wife, daughters or the women of his family. Some countries might still have some semblence of decency left before Sharia wipes them out and the man might go to jail for a few months, or years, but nothing really is done to him for killing.

In the UK, the honor killings for Muslims is rising to an average of one a month. It will go up like it does in other Muslim countries. It is very convenient that Muslims don’t count those as crimes so people like you can say they are not done or sanctioned in Islam.

The difference between the far superior man made laws and the Allah’s laws is that the treatment of a human being, no matter what they happened to be born, is much more equal under the man made laws. It is apparent that Allah (ok, I really believe that it was Mohammed who thought this stuff up and pinned it on his god but for arguments sake…) didn’t care much for half of his creation. I have read where men such as yourself think all is right with the world because a woman can keep her money.

There is an unlimited number of pics that can be shown of Muslim women who didn’t die and who now suffer burns and scars from failed honor killings.

Why are they forced to wear tents and whole body coverings? That isn’t in the book of Sharia laws. But their owner/masters say they have to wear them and so they do.

I think that this discussion is futile. Reality is what we see, read and hear. Not what the Muslims are trying to tell us what it should be like. Segregation is coming back because Muslim men cannot handle equality between the sexes, or even between Muslim and non-Muslim. And rape, and other nasty things don’t stop just because women are segregated or dressed like tents. And that brings up another inequality. If the women gets raped she is blamed. never mind that we have found out that it is the man who has the mental problems, and Allah should have known that and not made such a law as having to have 4 witnesses. Or was it that Mohammed made that law up when his little child went off with another man and Aisha somehow turned the situation around where she (could do no wrong in Mohammed’s eyes) said that women should have 4 witnesses. Little did she know how many women would die because of what she did.

Remember that Islamic law is formulated for the benefit of Man and not the other way around. You can quote texts till the cows come home, but Islam is lived out in the real world.

 

[eichenb2]

does a ahadeeth make it applicable to sharia law? especially this one?

1. Ahadith is the plural of hadith, which is technically a report of something Muhammad said, did, or assented to.
2. There are many classifications of Ahadith by various scholars and schools.
3. Whether or not a particular Hadith informed Islamic Law is determined by many factors; classification level, circumstances, conformity with Qur’an, etc.