Question for Muslims about Abraham

[smswife]

I apologize in advance if this is an offensive question in any way.

Do Muslims believe that the Arabic peoples are children of Abraham through Ishmael?

Thank you

 

[someguy14]

Arabic is an Ishmaelic term to describe those that are descendents of Ishmael, concieved from Sarai’s servant by Abraham.

Abraham and Sarai prayed to God to have a child and God promised Abraham that his seed will be as the sand of the sea, as the stars in the sky, very many. Abraham and Sarai doubted God and took upon themselves authority to concieve with Sarai’s maidservant and that is where Ishmael came from. Later Abraham and Sarai finally concieved together and bare Isaac, God’s promise to Abraham.

 

[hamba2han]

I am not aware of any verse in the Qur’an, or indeed in the ahadith, which refers to the term ‘Children of Abraham’ or ‘Children of Ishmael’ or for that matter ‘Children of Isaac’.

What is mentioned in the Qur’an is ‘Bani Israel’ i.e. the Children of Israel… and often not in a good light.

The point here is that Islam does not teach that being of the ‘Children of Abraham’ is a big deal as far as personal salvation is concerned.

The only Muslims who may be interested in exploring this aspect of their lineage is doing it not from an Islamic but rather from a purely nationalistic perspective.

 

[smswife]

Thank you.

The reason for the question is to prevent my children from offending my Muslim neighbors.

We are Catholic, and I was reading Bible stories last night about Abraham and Isaac to my sons age 9 and 11. I then told them that Muslims were also descendents of Abraham through his son Ishmael. (We did NOT discuss who Ishmael’s mother was.)

And my 9yo son said, “So (name of boy next door) is a descendent of Abraham?”.

The boys are all playmates together. I can see him bringing this sometime while they are playing together. Would this offend or confuse our neighbors?

I said it in the context that we all worship the same God which is why I brought it up to begin with, but now I am worried that it may be taken the wrong way by our neighbors, like my son is instructing their (older) son in his own origins! (I did something like that as a child to a Jewish neighbor )

So, do you think I should instruct my sons not to mention it to our neighbors or other Muslims or Arabs (not the same thing I know!)?

Thanks again

 

[someguy14]

Yes hamba2han, we are all under grace and physical bodys will die. We each have a love for God by the grace of God and a choice to accept the Love He has for us. Many prophets and followers of God came from rough backgrounds, though with Gods grace and Love towards each of us, all believers and followrs of Gods Love are children of God.

So I agree, by the grace of of God, that all mankind are given a chance to go to God. We are His creation and He Loves each of us without respect of persons.

We each descended from Adam and Eve of whom were tempted by the enemy of God that created every problem. We are all brothers and sisters in Gods eyes. May God bless.

 

[jakasaki]

Thank you.

The reason for the question is to prevent my children from offending my Muslim neighbors.

We are Catholic, and I was reading Bible stories last night about Abraham and Isaac to my sons age 9 and 11. I then told them that Muslims were also descendents of Abraham through his son Ishmael. (We did NOT discuss who Ishmael’s mother was.)

And my 9yo son said, “So (name of boy next door) is a descendent of Abraham?”.

The boys are all playmates together. I can see him bringing this sometime while they are playing together. Would this offend or confuse our neighbors?

I said it in the context that we all worship the same God which is why I brought it up to begin with, but now I am worried that it may be taken the wrong way by our neighbors, like my son is instructing their (older) son in his own origins! (I did something like that as a child to a Jewish neighbor )

So, do you think I should instruct my sons not to mention it to our neighbors or other Muslims or Arabs (not the same thing I know!)?

Thanks again

I’m sort of confused here…

By stating that “muslims” were also descendants of Abraham, you are making a broad statement.

A muslim can be an Arab, an Italian, an American, black, white, Chinese… etc… etc… you get the point…

If I am not mistaken, it’s only the Arab or some Middle Eastern muslims whom may make the claim that they are descendants of Abraham, through Ishmael.

 

[someguy14]

It is a fleshly care that we should not be concerned about, smswife. All God based religions Love their neighbors as themselves. This is to say, that all people were created and all deserve to be Loved, we are all the same. You can never go wrong doing good. Goodness doesnt divide between traditions or color of skin or regions of land where one is from. We are all the same. Love and mecifullnes will always rule over traditions and flesh. We all need mercy from a perfect God that loves so very much. May God bless.

 

[smswife]

Sorry, I didn’t mean to use “Muslim” to mean “Arab”. Of course Muslims are of all nationalities and ethnicities. And many Arabs are not Muslim.

My Muslim neighbors are Arabic, however.

And yes, my whole worry is how to “love my neighbor”. I don’t want what I explain to my children about salvation history to inadvertantly cause them to offend or insult our neighbors.

I agree that ultimately it doesn’t matter if Arabs are descended from Abraham, but it is interesting, isn’t it? At least I and my younger son found it so. If I, personally, had reason to believe that I was a descendant of Abraham, I would think that was pretty cool. In actual fact it is extremely unlikely.

So the question is, does the average American Arabic Muslim consider himself a descendant of Abraham and would he/she be offended or annoyed by the Catholic child next door bringing up the idea?

Thanks

 

[jakasaki]

Ma’am ~

With all due respect - you do as you wish…

But it were me and my kids were 9 & 11 out playing with children their own age, the last thing I would want is my little ones discussing religion with other little ones.

Just my 2 cents for what’s it’s worth.

 

[smswife]

So your advise is to instruct my children to never discuss religion with others at all?

Perhaps you’re right . . .

 

[jakasaki]

So your advise is to instruct my children to never discuss religion with others at all?

Perhaps you’re right . . .

Ma’am - you’re the mother/parent of your children

You do as you see fit

I just can’t see kids talking about religion, especially when your kids are Christians and the other kids are muslim.

2 different faiths.

I can just see the muslim kids talking about “allah” and confusing your kids

I can see them saying to your kids that Jesus was not crucified, did not die on the cross, there was no resurrection…

I can see them telling your kids “allah” does not have a son…

The Christian Bible is corrupt - it is not the Word of God

Only allahs book is the truth…

Ma’am

The list is endless…

Are your little ones ready to defend their faith as Christians against muslim children…

I bet you a chocolate cake they are not.

Therefore, it’s best they ride bikes, play with Tonka trucks… etc…

Once again, just my 2 cents worth -

 

[hamba2han]

Thank you.

The reason for the question is to prevent my children from offending my Muslim neighbors.

We are Catholic, and I was reading Bible stories last night about Abraham and Isaac to my sons age 9 and 11. I then told them that Muslims were also descendents of Abraham through his son Ishmael. (We did NOT discuss who Ishmael’s mother was.)

And my 9yo son said, “So (name of boy next door) is a descendent of Abraham?”.

The boys are all playmates together. I can see him bringing this sometime while they are playing together. Would this offend or confuse our neighbors?

I said it in the context that we all worship the same God which is why I brought it up to begin with, but now I am worried that it may be taken the wrong way by our neighbors, like my son is instructing their (older) son in his own origins! (I did something like that as a child to a Jewish neighbor )

So, do you think I should instruct my sons not to mention it to our neighbors or other Muslims or Arabs (not the same thing I know!)?

Thanks again

“So, do you think I should instruct my sons not to mention it to our neighbors or other Muslims or Arabs?”

Well, if they ask, I myself would tell them that being the ‘Children of Abraham’ whether it be from Ishmael or Isaac, is not a big deal at all in the eyes of the Lord… and you would indeed be telling them the truth and nothing but the truth as far as Muslims are concerned.

And to illustrate this, the following is an excerpt from the Last Sermon which the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) gave not long before his death:

**“All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action.” **

 

[Irenaeus07]

I apologize in advance if this is an offensive question in any way.

Do Muslims believe that the Arabic peoples are children of Abraham through Ishmael?

Thank you

When Muslim historians look through history, they class the arabs into three categories.

1) Arab Al Ba’ida (Extinct Arabs) - They no longer exist.

**2) Arab Al Ariba (Pure Arab) **- They are the southern Arabs originated from Yemen and Oman.

3) Arab Al Mustariba (Arabized Arabs) The descendant of Abraham through his son Ishmael, which the bible states,** “As for Ishmael, I have heard thee, Behold, I have blessed him and I will make him a great nation.”** (Genesis 17:20-21
These are sematic people who adopted the Arab language and became arabized, and thus referred to as Arabized Arabs. Prophet Muhammad was a descendent of this line.
This line migrated from Kufa, the west bank of Euohrates in Iraq.

I hope that helps.

 

[jakasaki]

When Muslim historians look through history, they class the arabs into three categories.

1) Arab Al Ba’ida (Extinct Arabs) - They no longer exist.

**2) Arab Al Ariba (Pure Arab) **- They are the southern Arabs originated from Yemen and Oman.

3) Arab Al Mustariba (Arabized Arabs) The descendant of Abraham through his son Ishmael, which the bible states,** “As for Ishmael, I have heard thee, Behold, I have blessed him and I will make him a great nation.”** (Genesis 17:20-21
These are sematic people who adopted the Arab language and became arabized, and thus referred to as Arabized Arabs. Prophet Muhammad was a descendent of this line.
This line migrated from Kufa, the west bank of Euohrates in Iraq.

I hope that helps.

Cite your source(s) for -1- -2- & -3- please… …

Also cite your source that Mohamad was a descendant of this line… preferable from a non-islamic source…

Thanks

 

[Irenaeus07]

Cite your source(s) for -1- -2- & -3- please… …

Also cite your source that Mohamad was a descendant of this line… preferable from a non-islamic source…

Thanks

Here are the first two…

"According to Arab lore, which predates Islam, the first Arabs “the Arab Arabs” have disappeared (hence the term “the Vanished Arabs”), but before they did they Arabized the descendents of Yoktan, who in term Arabized the sons of Ishamael.

There are a number of references to Arabs as descendents of Ishmael: Josephus mentions the fact that they circumcize at age 13 (something Muslims do now) because of their ancestor Ishmael. Remember, Moses’ father in law was an Arab (see for instance Genesis 25 37) and the Arabs/Ishamelites/Midianites etc. crop up repeatedly in the Old Testament. There are also a number of references in the Fathers to this fact, e.g. Sozomon’s account of the Arabs/Saracens
ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf202.iii.xi.xxxviii.html
Where the ancestery is specifically mentioned in connection to their conversion to Christianity."

This is non-Islamic
And actually pre-dates Islam.

In regards to the other stuff, I don’t really care if you believe it or not.

 

[Discipulo]

**“All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action.” ***

What about the Hadith? It proclaims Arab supremacism and racism towards other groups:

Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah’s helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in Allah’s Cause. Killing him is a small matter to us.
Tabari IX 69

Shem, the son of Noah was the father of the Arabs, the Persians, and the Greeks; Ham was the father of the Black Africans; and Japheth was the father of the Turks and of Gog and Magog who were cousins of the Turks. Noah prayed that the prophets and apostles would be descended from Shem and kings would be from Japheth. He prayed that the African’s color would change so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks.
Tabari II 11

“Abu Darda reported that the Holy Prophet said: Allah created Adam when he created him (sic). Then He stroke (sic) his right shoulder and took out a white race as if they were seeds, and He stroke (sic) his left shoulder and took out a black race as if they were coals. Then He said to those who were in his right side: Towards paradise and I don’t care. He said to those who were on his left shoulder: Towards Hell and I don’t care. - Ahmad”
Mishkat, v. iii, p. 117

Non-Arab Muslims are also required to pray rote prayers they cannot understand in Arabic in order to receive graces, there is a clear preference for Arabic culture in Islam. The supposed chosen language of God.

 

[hamba2han]

What about the Hadith? It proclaims Arab supremacism and racism towards other groups:

Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah’s helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in Allah’s Cause. Killing him is a small matter to us.
Tabari IX 69

Shem, the son of Noah was the father of the Arabs, the Persians, and the Greeks; Ham was the father of the Black Africans; and Japheth was the father of the Turks and of Gog and Magog who were cousins of the Turks. Noah prayed that the prophets and apostles would be descended from Shem and kings would be from Japheth. He prayed that the African’s color would change so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks.
Tabari II 11

“Abu Darda reported that the Holy Prophet said: Allah created Adam when he created him (sic). Then He stroke (sic) his right shoulder and took out a white race as if they were seeds, and He stroke (sic) his left shoulder and took out a black race as if they were coals. Then He said to those who were in his right side: Towards paradise and I don’t care. He said to those who were on his left shoulder: Towards Hell and I don’t care. - Ahmad”
Mishkat, v. iii, p. 117

Non-Arab Muslims are also required to pray rote prayers they cannot understand in Arabic in order to receive graces, there is a clear preference for Arabic culture in Islam. The supposed chosen language of God.

Under the ‘Science of Hadith’, the ahadith are classified according to their strength in terms of the reliability and credibility of every one of the witnesses along the chain of narration before the hadith is actually recorded.

In the case of the Last Sermon of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), almost every one of the most faithful and pious of his Companions (may Allah be pleased with them) heard him deliver his Sermon.

If indeed there are to be found other ahadith that may appear to contradict an extremely sound hadith like this Last Sermon of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and which have come from much less reliable sources, then these ahadith are either put aside as being very weak hadith or simply discarded as being fabricated hadith.

 

[meltzerboy]

Under the ‘Science of Hadith’, the ahadith are classified according to their strength in terms of the reliability and credibility of every one of the witnesses along the chain of narration before the hadith is actually recorded.

In the case of the Last Sermon of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), almost every one of the most faithful and pious of his Companions (may Allah be pleased with them) heard him deliver his Sermon.

If indeed there are to be found other ahadith that may appear to contradict an extremely sound hadith like this Last Sermon of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and which have come from much less reliable sources, then these ahadith are either put aside as being very weak hadith or simply discarded as being fabricated hadith.

Pardon my ignorance. So based on what you’re saying, the Hadith are not regarded by Muslims as Holy to the degree of infallibility the way the Qu’ran is? Perhaps they have similar status to the Kabbalah compared to the Torah in Judaism, or the Church Fathers compared to Scripture in Catholicism: that is, authoritative but not infallible.

 

[hamba2han]

Pardon my ignorance. So based on what you’re saying, the Hadith are not regarded by Muslims as Holy to the degree of infallibility the way the Qu’ran is? Perhaps they have similar status to the Kabbalah compared to the Torah in Judaism, or the Church Fathers compared to Scripture in Catholicism: that is, authoritative but not infallible.

No authentic hadith can contradict another authentic hadith and in the event that there appears to be contradiction, then there will almost always be yet other related ahadith which will explain the circumstances which has caused such seeming contradictions to occur.

On top of it all, of course, is the Qur’an which cannot be contradicted by any ahadith.

In the case of the Last Sermon of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), there is nothing in his Sermon which contradicts the Qur’an whereas in the case of the few ahadith presented in Discipulo’s post, we can see that there are contradictions between the contents of these ahadith and the teachings found in the Qur’an.

 

[smswife]

This is all very interesting, thank you all for responding. I am not sure if I understand if there is in the above posts an answer to my question below:

So the question is, does the average American Arabic Muslim consider himself a descendant of Abraham and would he/she be offended or annoyed by the Catholic child next door bringing up the idea?

If anyone here can answer that I would be grateful.

Thanks!