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Chris_LaRock
Guest
If both the Muslims and the Jews both acknowledge Jesus to be a prophet of God, why don’t they follow any of his teachings?
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K
Karin
Guest
I am neither a Jew or Muslim…but here is what I found (please correct me if wrong)
So why don’t Jews believe in Jesus?
The first thing you need to understand is, we do not believe in the Christian “New Testament.” It’s not part of our Bible. Many Christians find this confusing: how can you accept one part of a book without accepting another part of the book. But the Bible is not one book; it’s a collection of books. Jews, Catholics, Protestants and Mormons each have their own idea of what books belong in that collection. You wouldn’t accept another religion’s idea of what belongs in your Bible, so you shouldn’t expect Jews to accept your idea of what belongs in our Bible. But assuming for the sake of this discussion that the Christian scriptures have some basis in fact: Jews had a rather clearly-formed idea of the messiah and a messianic age long before Jesus came along. That clearly-formed idea involved the restoration of the Davidic monarchy and a just and peaceful society throughout the world, as foretold by the prophets during the age of the Babylonian Exile. The Jews of the Roman Empire desperately longed for that beautiful ideal as they suffered under Roman tyranny. See Moshiach: The Messiah for more about this Jewish idea of the messiah. The Jews of Rome weren’t looking for an incarnated god who would die and absolve them of their sins, because the idea of sin and its punishment and concern about salvation aren’t at the heart of Judaism, the way they are in Christianity. From what three of the Christian gospels say, it appears that Jesus’s own followers weren’t expecting a suffering, self-sacrificing messiah. See, for example, Matthew 16: Jesus’s followers knew that he was the messiah (v. 16), but Jesus had to teach them that he was going to suffer and die (v. 21), and even after he said this, one of his most loyal followers couldn’t believe it (v. 22). It sounds to me like Jesus’s closest followers were not aware of any teaching about the messiah suffering and dying, and were not ready to believe it. The same pattern appears in Mark 8 (v. 28: they know he is messiah; v. 30: he teaches about suffering; v. 31: Peter doesn’t believe it), and similarly in Luke 9 (v. 20: they know; v. 22: he teaches; the denial is not there); John never talks about this incident. Jews don’t believe that Jesus is the messiah because, quite simply, he never did any of the things that we expect the messiah to do, the things that the prophets proclaimed the messiah would do. See Moshiach: The Messiah. Christianity gets around this by saying that Jesus will come back to do all of those things. From a Jewish perspective, however, the messiah is identified by his tangible acts, and promises to finish the job in the future aren’t going to convince us. jewfaq.org/looking4.htm
So why don’t Jews believe in Jesus?
The first thing you need to understand is, we do not believe in the Christian “New Testament.” It’s not part of our Bible. Many Christians find this confusing: how can you accept one part of a book without accepting another part of the book. But the Bible is not one book; it’s a collection of books. Jews, Catholics, Protestants and Mormons each have their own idea of what books belong in that collection. You wouldn’t accept another religion’s idea of what belongs in your Bible, so you shouldn’t expect Jews to accept your idea of what belongs in our Bible. But assuming for the sake of this discussion that the Christian scriptures have some basis in fact: Jews had a rather clearly-formed idea of the messiah and a messianic age long before Jesus came along. That clearly-formed idea involved the restoration of the Davidic monarchy and a just and peaceful society throughout the world, as foretold by the prophets during the age of the Babylonian Exile. The Jews of the Roman Empire desperately longed for that beautiful ideal as they suffered under Roman tyranny. See Moshiach: The Messiah for more about this Jewish idea of the messiah. The Jews of Rome weren’t looking for an incarnated god who would die and absolve them of their sins, because the idea of sin and its punishment and concern about salvation aren’t at the heart of Judaism, the way they are in Christianity. From what three of the Christian gospels say, it appears that Jesus’s own followers weren’t expecting a suffering, self-sacrificing messiah. See, for example, Matthew 16: Jesus’s followers knew that he was the messiah (v. 16), but Jesus had to teach them that he was going to suffer and die (v. 21), and even after he said this, one of his most loyal followers couldn’t believe it (v. 22). It sounds to me like Jesus’s closest followers were not aware of any teaching about the messiah suffering and dying, and were not ready to believe it. The same pattern appears in Mark 8 (v. 28: they know he is messiah; v. 30: he teaches about suffering; v. 31: Peter doesn’t believe it), and similarly in Luke 9 (v. 20: they know; v. 22: he teaches; the denial is not there); John never talks about this incident. Jews don’t believe that Jesus is the messiah because, quite simply, he never did any of the things that we expect the messiah to do, the things that the prophets proclaimed the messiah would do. See Moshiach: The Messiah. Christianity gets around this by saying that Jesus will come back to do all of those things. From a Jewish perspective, however, the messiah is identified by his tangible acts, and promises to finish the job in the future aren’t going to convince us. jewfaq.org/looking4.htm
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Chris_LaRock
Guest
True, Jews don’t see Jesus as messiah. But they do see him as a prophet of God. Wouldn’t this fact alone compell them to follow his teachings? Muslims know Moses was a prophet, yet don’t include the ten commandments in the Koran. It seems like a contradiction. If I saw someone as a prophet, you can bet I wouldn’t disregard thier teachings.
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Karin
Guest
Chris LaRock:
The following list of prophets is based on the Talmud and Rashi. Abraham
Isaac
Jacob
Moses
Aaron
Joshua
Pinchas
Elkanah
Eli
Samuel
Gad
Nathan
David
Solomon
Iddo
Michaiah son of Imlah
Obadiah
Ahiyah the Shilonite
Jehu son of Hanani
Azariah son of Oded
Jahaziel the Levite
Eliezer son of Dodavahu
Hosea
Amos
Micah the Morashtite
Amoz
Elijah
Elisha
Jonah ben Amittai
Isaiah
Joel
Nahum
Habakkuk
To see the rest click here…
http://www.jewfaq.org/prophet.htm#Who
I dont think that is right (please correct me if I am wrong) but the Jewish faith has only 55 prophets and please note who is not included…True, Jews don’t see Jesus as messiah. But they do see him as a prophet of God. Wouldn’t this fact alone compell them to follow his teachings? Muslims know Moses was a prophet, yet don’t include the ten commandments in the Koran. It seems like a contradiction. If I saw someone as a prophet, you can bet I wouldn’t disregard thier teachings.
The following list of prophets is based on the Talmud and Rashi. Abraham
Isaac
Jacob
Moses
Aaron
Joshua
Pinchas
Elkanah
Eli
Samuel
Gad
Nathan
David
Solomon
Iddo
Michaiah son of Imlah
Obadiah
Ahiyah the Shilonite
Jehu son of Hanani
Azariah son of Oded
Jahaziel the Levite
Eliezer son of Dodavahu
Hosea
Amos
Micah the Morashtite
Amoz
Elijah
Elisha
Jonah ben Amittai
Isaiah
Joel
Nahum
Habakkuk
To see the rest click here…
http://www.jewfaq.org/prophet.htm#Who
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Chris_LaRock
Guest
I know that Jesus is regarded as a prophet by both Jews and Muslims. I thought this was common knowledge. My question is why they don’t follow his teachings.
M
Milliardo
Guest
Chris LaRock:
Jews don’t consider Jesus to even be a prophet; Muslims consider him as such. Muslims do claim they follow the true teaching of God (Allah) as revealed to the Prophet in Mecca (I am not Muslim, btw, but i do use the term Prophet to Mohammed as respect to our Muslim brethren), so in essence they claim to follow Jesus’ teaching, according to their own understanding.I know that Jesus is regarded as a prophet by both Jews and Muslims. I thought this was common knowledge. My question is why they don’t follow his teachings.
K
Karin
Guest
Chris LaRock:
No…that is never or has never been common knowledge. But I will double check with the Orthodox Jews tomorrow that live here in town…TEXT REMOVEDI know that Jesus is regarded as a prophet by both Jews and Muslims. I thought this was common knowledge. My question is why they don’t follow his teachings.
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Chris_LaRock
Guest
Every Jew I’ve talked to says they see him as a lower level prophet.
Anyhow, I’d like to know why people who see him as a prophet don’t follow his teachings?
Anyhow, I’d like to know why people who see him as a prophet don’t follow his teachings?
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Milliardo
Guest
Chris LaRock:
Must be those liberal Jews. No serious orthodox Jew would even dare say Jesus to be a prophet. Painful truth for us Christians, who want to have better relations with our Jewish brethren, but truth nonetheless.Every Jew I’ve talked to says they see him as a lower level prophet.
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Chris_LaRock
Guest
I guess what I’m asking is how can someone consider Jesus as a prphet - and not follow his teachings. This question has bothered me for a while.
A
AnAtheist
Guest
Chris LaRock:
That is easy to answer. Muslims do not regard the content of the NT to be true, so to them most of the things Jesus teached are not really his teachings.I guess what I’m asking is how can someone consider Jesus as a prphet - and not follow his teachings. This question has bothered me for a while.
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Chris_LaRock
Guest
That’s not the question. The question is, why do they not follow his teachings if they see him as a prophet?
M
Milliardo
Guest
Chris LaRock:
Perhaps you could clarify for us what you mean by His teachings, since Muslims would tell you they do follow the teachings of Issah (Jesus).That’s not the question. The question is, why do they not follow his teachings if they see him as a prophet?
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Chris_LaRock
Guest
You never hear Muslims or Jews telling people to love thier enemies and to pray for those who persecute them. You don’t hear them teaching to turn the other cheek. Neither group teaches that you must be born again. The list is endless. It seems contradictory.
M
Milliardo
Guest
Chris LaRock:
I would think the Quran says as much about having peace amongst your neighbours. I don’t know the exact quotes on those though.You never hear Muslims or Jews telling people to love thier enemies and to pray for those who persecute them.
Well, as pointed above, they don’t believe in the Jesus that is in the New Testament. For instance, Muslims do not believe Jesus to have been crucified.You don’t hear them teaching to turn the other cheek. Neither group teaches that you must be born again. The list is endless. It seems contradictory.
C
Chris_LaRock
Guest
Muslims see the NT as God’s word, but don’t trust it because they think the followers of Jesus altered the NT later.
M
Milliardo
Guest
Chris LaRock:
No, they don’t, or else it would’ve been pointless for them to have the Quran.Muslims see the NT as God’s word
A
AnAtheist
Guest
Chris LaRock:
How much this represents the majority of Muslims I can’t say. Remember they have no single institution setting out doctines. Oh, and beware, the language on that site is not nice to put it nicely.
I have found this site made by a fanatical Muslim, explaining how he sees Jesus: bare-jesus.net/Muslims see the NT as God’s word, but don’t trust it because they think the followers of Jesus altered the NT later.
How much this represents the majority of Muslims I can’t say. Remember they have no single institution setting out doctines. Oh, and beware, the language on that site is not nice to put it nicely.
M
Mystophilus
Guest
Chris LaRock:
While I am not a Muslim, I have read an English paraphrase of the Qu’ran, and so I might be able to shed a little light on this. The Qu’ran states that the revelations previously given were imperfect, i.e., that the Bible text as held by the Jews and the Christians is essentially corrupt. On this basis, the Muslims do hold to what they believe that Jesus actually taught, and that what he taught was not what is in the Christian Bible (e.g., Jesus was not crucified or killed (4.157); Jesus is not God (4:171); God has no son (19:34-5)). For what the Qu’ran says about what Jesus really taught, you can start here, although you ought to remember that it is an article of faith among Muslims that the Qu’ran is only genuine in the original Arabic, not in translation.That’s not the question. The question is, why do they not follow his teachings if they see him as a prophet?
K
kernk
Guest
Chris,
It is all a matter of how you look at it. To ask, why don’t Muslims follow the teachings of Jesus at least appears first to assume that many or all Muslims don’t and second to assume that one’s personal interpretations of the teachings of Jesus ARE what must be followed.
As a for instance, there are a number of threads in this forum asking whether or not Protestants are Christians (i.e. do they follow the teachings of Jesus?). I believe that they (Protestants) would say that they do indeed follow the teachings of Jesus.
The question then becomes, what are the teachings of Jesus? If one looks at Jesus to summarize them one could offer:
“And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
"And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
“And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
“And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.”
(Mark 12:28-34)
Here are similar quotes from Islam:
“Your God is one God; there is no God but He, the merciful, the compassionate. . .”
(The Qur’an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 2 - The Heifer)
“Say, ‘If ye would love God then follow me, and God will love you and forgive you your sins, for God is forgiving and merciful.’”
(The Qur’an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 3 - Imran’s Family)
“Not one of you is a believer unless he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.”
(Forty Hadith of an-Nawawi)
“Do you love your Creator? Then love your fellow beings first. Allah loves kindness and rewards it in such a way that He does not reward for harshness or for anything else.”
(Hadith Reported by Muslim, Kitaab al-Birr wa’l-Sillah wa’l-Aadaab, no.2592 )
So, if Muslims follow these two commandments, do they follow the teachings of Jesus? Also, Jesus got those two commandments from the Torah. If a Jew follows the teachings of the Torah, does he/she follow the teachings of Jesus?
There is no question that there are some who claim to be Muslims who do not follow these teachings, there are some who claim to be Muslims who reject Jesus’ crucifixion, that believe that the Gospel is corrupt, etc. But there are many who don’t and many, many more who have never bothered to investigate the claims of their leaders who have told them these things. Just as there are, I would suggest, many Christians who believe they have all the right answers without investigating other possibilities. Did not Jesus Himself warn against such an approach:
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
(Matthew 7:21-23)
And Paul:
“Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.”
(1 Philippians 4:8)
“Be joyful always; pray continually; give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.
“Do not put out the Spirit’s fire; do not treat prophecies with contempt.
“Test everything. Hold on to the good.”
(1 Thessalonians 5:16-21)
Islam and Judaism and Hinduism and Buddhism and Zoroastrianism and the Bahá’í Faith (of which I am one) all teach loving kindness, all teach to love your neighbor as yourself, all teach forgiveness and repentance and the glorification of God . . . are these not the teachings of Christ? That some may not follow them is no different in any of these faiths than it is in Christianity.
kernk
It is all a matter of how you look at it. To ask, why don’t Muslims follow the teachings of Jesus at least appears first to assume that many or all Muslims don’t and second to assume that one’s personal interpretations of the teachings of Jesus ARE what must be followed.
As a for instance, there are a number of threads in this forum asking whether or not Protestants are Christians (i.e. do they follow the teachings of Jesus?). I believe that they (Protestants) would say that they do indeed follow the teachings of Jesus.
The question then becomes, what are the teachings of Jesus? If one looks at Jesus to summarize them one could offer:
“And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
"And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
“And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
“And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.”
(Mark 12:28-34)
Here are similar quotes from Islam:
“Your God is one God; there is no God but He, the merciful, the compassionate. . .”
(The Qur’an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 2 - The Heifer)
“Say, ‘If ye would love God then follow me, and God will love you and forgive you your sins, for God is forgiving and merciful.’”
(The Qur’an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 3 - Imran’s Family)
“Not one of you is a believer unless he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.”
(Forty Hadith of an-Nawawi)
“Do you love your Creator? Then love your fellow beings first. Allah loves kindness and rewards it in such a way that He does not reward for harshness or for anything else.”
(Hadith Reported by Muslim, Kitaab al-Birr wa’l-Sillah wa’l-Aadaab, no.2592 )
So, if Muslims follow these two commandments, do they follow the teachings of Jesus? Also, Jesus got those two commandments from the Torah. If a Jew follows the teachings of the Torah, does he/she follow the teachings of Jesus?
There is no question that there are some who claim to be Muslims who do not follow these teachings, there are some who claim to be Muslims who reject Jesus’ crucifixion, that believe that the Gospel is corrupt, etc. But there are many who don’t and many, many more who have never bothered to investigate the claims of their leaders who have told them these things. Just as there are, I would suggest, many Christians who believe they have all the right answers without investigating other possibilities. Did not Jesus Himself warn against such an approach:
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
(Matthew 7:21-23)
And Paul:
“Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.”
(1 Philippians 4:8)
“Be joyful always; pray continually; give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.
“Do not put out the Spirit’s fire; do not treat prophecies with contempt.
“Test everything. Hold on to the good.”
(1 Thessalonians 5:16-21)
Islam and Judaism and Hinduism and Buddhism and Zoroastrianism and the Bahá’í Faith (of which I am one) all teach loving kindness, all teach to love your neighbor as yourself, all teach forgiveness and repentance and the glorification of God . . . are these not the teachings of Christ? That some may not follow them is no different in any of these faiths than it is in Christianity.
kernk
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