Question for Muslims and Jews

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Hi all!
Chris LaRock said:
Every Jew I’ve talked to says they see him as a lower level prophet.
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Milliardo:
Must be those liberal Jews. No serious orthodox Jew would even dare say Jesus to be a prophet. Painful truth for us Christians, who want to have better relations with our Jewish brethren, but truth nonetheless.
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Milliardo, you are correct. See jewfaq.org/prophet.htm & jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm#Jesus.

Be well!

ssv 👋
 
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Milliardo:
No, they don’t, or else it would’ve been pointless for them to have the Quran.
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How can you reply to only a small portion of a sentence?

I wrote:

Muslims see the bible as being the word of God, but don’t trust it since they think man altered it later.

This is why they think the Koran was given to Mohammud.
 
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kernk:
Chris,

It is all a matter of how you look at it. To ask, why don’t Muslims follow the teachings of Jesus at least appears first to assume that many or all Muslims don’t and second to assume that one’s personal interpretations of the teachings of Jesus ARE what must be followed.

As a for instance, there are a number of threads in this forum asking whether or not Protestants are Christians (i.e. do they follow the teachings of Jesus?). I believe that they (Protestants) would say that they do indeed follow the teachings of Jesus.

The question then becomes, what are the teachings of Jesus? If one looks at Jesus to summarize them one could offer:

“And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

"And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

“And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

“And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.”

(Mark 12:28-34)

Here are similar quotes from Islam:

“Your God is one God; there is no God but He, the merciful, the compassionate. . .”

(The Qur’an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 2 - The Heifer)

“Say, ‘If ye would love God then follow me, and God will love you and forgive you your sins, for God is forgiving and merciful.’”

(The Qur’an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 3 - Imran’s Family)

“Not one of you is a believer unless he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.”

(Forty Hadith of an-Nawawi)

“Do you love your Creator? Then love your fellow beings first. Allah loves kindness and rewards it in such a way that He does not reward for harshness or for anything else.”

(Hadith Reported by Muslim, Kitaab al-Birr wa’l-Sillah wa’l-Aadaab, no.2592 )

So, if Muslims follow these two commandments, do they follow the teachings of Jesus? Also, Jesus got those two commandments from the Torah. If a Jew follows the teachings of the Torah, does he/she follow the teachings of Jesus?

There is no question that there are some who claim to be Muslims who do not follow these teachings, there are some who claim to be Muslims who reject Jesus’ crucifixion, that believe that the Gospel is corrupt, etc. But there are many who don’t and many, many more who have never bothered to investigate the claims of their leaders who have told them these things. Just as there are, I would suggest, many Christians who believe they have all the right answers without investigating other possibilities. Did not Jesus Himself warn against such an approach:

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

(Matthew 7:21-23)

And Paul:

“Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.”

(1 Philippians 4:8)

“Be joyful always; pray continually; give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.
“Do not put out the Spirit’s fire; do not treat prophecies with contempt.
“Test everything. Hold on to the good.”
(1 Thessalonians 5:16-21)

Islam and Judaism and Hinduism and Buddhism and Zoroastrianism and the Bahá’í Faith (of which I am one) all teach loving kindness, all teach to love your neighbor as yourself, all teach forgiveness and repentance and the glorification of God . . . are these not the teachings of Christ? That some may not follow them is no different in any of these faiths than it is in Christianity.

kernk
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Does Islam and all those faiths you mentioned teach the importance of being born again? Check out the following site:

www.thewayofthemaster.com
 
Chris LaRock:
How can you reply to only a small portion of a sentence?

I wrote:

Muslims see the bible as being the word of God, but don’t trust it since they think man altered it later.

This is why they think the Koran was given to Mohammud.
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And that’s why I sad your view’s not correct, since in the first place they don’t even see the Bible as the Word of God. So they don’t even need to trust it, since they never saw it as God’s Word.
 
I actually have Christian books that explain Islam. Muslim sources state in those books that they see the books of the bible as being inspired by God, but that they have been altered by man. They contend that these supposed alterations rendered the bible as untrustworthy, and therefore credit the Koran as being the true, unperverted word of God.

“Muslims acknowledge all scriptures to be the word of God, but they often assume that previous scriptures have been corrupted or abrogated and hence are no longer trustworthy.”

taken from ‘How To Respond: Muslims’
 
Chris LaRock:
I actually have Christian books that explain Islam. Muslim sources state in those books that they see the books of the bible as being inspired by God, but that they have been altered by man. They contend that these supposed alterations rendered the bible as untrustworthy, and therefore credit the Koran as being the true, unperverted word of God.

“Muslims acknowledge all scriptures to be the word of God, but they often assume that previous scriptures have been corrupted or abrogated and hence are no longer trustworthy.”

taken from ‘How To Respond: Muslims’
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very well put 👍
 
Chris LaRock:
I actually have Christian books that explain Islam. Muslim sources state in those books that they see the books of the bible as being inspired by God, but that they have been altered by man. They contend that these supposed alterations rendered the bible as untrustworthy, and therefore credit the Koran as being the true, unperverted word of God.

“Muslims acknowledge all scriptures to be the word of God, but they often assume that previous scriptures have been corrupted or abrogated and hence are no longer trustworthy.”

taken from ‘How To Respond: Muslims’
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Who wrote the book? No Muslim I know will say the Bible to be inspired by God; that would definitely negate the Quran, as Muslims see the Quran to be the only inspired word of God, the same way we Christians profess the Bible to be the only word of God. To say that there is another would, essentially, already negate the necessity of the first.
 
Hi all!
Semper Fi:
Can you still be a “good” orthodox Jew and have respect for Jesus of Nazareth’s accomplishments (i.e. converting 1.5 billion from paganism)?
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Sure! See ajc.org/site/apps/nl/content3.asp?c=ijITI2PHKoG&b=846561&ct=1089255.

I’ll cite one excerpt:
But beyond all this is the question of the special place that Christianity should have in Judaism’s religious world view. While as mentioned, our negative encounter with Christianity has hardly lent itself to such, there have been those who have been able to view Christianity in a more noble light. Beyond Yehudah Halevi and Maimonides (twelfth and thirteenth centuries) who saw Christianity and Islam as a vehicle for bringing essential truths to humanity at large; and beyond Rabbi Menachem HaMeiri a century later who defines Christianity and Islam as true religion; scholars like Rabbi Moses Rivkes in the seventeenth century affirmed the unique relationship between Christianity and Judaism, long before modern Jewish philosophers like Franz Rosenzweig and Martin Buber. The latter’s comment that “we share a book and a hope” were more than anticipated by Rivkes when he declared that Jews and Christians are bound together by the Hebrew Bible and its message of salvation, revelation and full Messianic expectation.
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But arguably the boldest of all these pre-modern, Orthodox Rabbinic theologians, was the great Rabbi Jacob Emden at the turn of the eighteenth century who described Christianity with the Mishnaic designation as a “knessiyah leshem shamayim shesofa lehitkayam”, a gathering for the sake of Heaven, of lasting validity. (Actually the Hebrew word “knessiyah” is a translation for “church” – so in fact Emden is referring to Christianity as a Church for the sake of Heaven that is part of Divine purpose for humanity at large!) Incidentally, Emden’s theological affirmation of Christianity goes well beyond the vision articulated in Dabru Emet – the positive statement about Christianity drawn up by a group of American Jewish scholars, signed by hundreds of rabbis and other Jewish scholars, and issued three years ago – which elicited such a positive response from our Christian partners.

Emden goes beyond his aforementioned predecessors in not just seeing Christianity as bringing truths of Judaism to the rest of the world; but in seeing it as having its own salvific character. If this is the case, then how might we understand the relationship between Christianity and Judaism in a way that the former has something to teach the latter as well as vice versa? As I have indicated, until recently the question could not have even been raised by most Jews, let alone considered. Notwithstanding Emden’s remarkable theological vision, the tragic negative historical experience overwhelmed even any familiarity with Emden’s position itself, let alone any willingness to consider its theological implications!
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Be well!

ssv 👋
 
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Milliardo:
Who wrote the book? No Muslim I know will say the Bible to be inspired by God; that would definitely negate the Quran, as Muslims see the Quran to be the only inspired word of God, the same way we Christians profess the Bible to be the only word of God. To say that there is another would, essentially, already negate the necessity of the first.
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It was written by Ernest Hahn.

Seems to me you are only interested in arguing with me. I’ve stated my case and even sited a source. It’s up to you to do your own research at this point if nothing I say can convince you. I’m done arguing with you. :banghead:
 
Chris LaRock:
It was written by Ernest Hahn.

Seems to me you are only interested in arguing with me. I’ve stated my case and even sited a source. It’s up to you to do your own research at this point if nothing I say can convince you. I’m done arguing with you. :banghead:
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Nope, I’ve done my share of debates with Muslims, and they will tell you that they do not see the Bible to be the word of God. It would be pointless for Islam to say the Bible to be God’s word, or else they wouldn’t need the Quran to begin with. It is just common sense, after all.
 
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Milliardo:
Nope, I’ve done my share of debates with Muslims, and they will tell you that they do not see the Bible to be the word of God. It would be pointless for Islam to say the Bible to be God’s word, or else they wouldn’t need the Quran to begin with. It is just common sense, after all.
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If some people actually read what people wrote these type of misunderstandings would not occur!

ChrisG stated…Muslim sources state in those books that they see the books of the bible as being inspired by God, but that they have been altered by man. **They contend that these supposed alterations rendered the bible as untrustworthy, and therefore credit the Koran as being the true, unperverted word of God.
**“Muslims acknowledge all scriptures to be the word of God, but they often assume that previous scriptures have been corrupted or abrogated and hence are no longer trustworthy.”
 
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Karin:
If some people actually read what people wrote these type of misunderstandings would not occur!

ChrisG stated…Muslim sources state in those books that they see the books of the bible as being inspired by God, but that they have been altered by man. **They contend that these supposed alterations rendered the bible as untrustworthy, and therefore credit the Koran as being the true, unperverted word of God.
**“Muslims acknowledge all scriptures to be the word of God, but they often assume that previous scriptures have been corrupted or abrogated and hence are no longer trustworthy.”
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This is why I’m done with this topic. Some people on here are only interested in arguing. :rolleyes:
 
Chris LaRock:
This is why I’m done with this topic. Some people on here are only interested in arguing. :rolleyes:
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Sorry to hear that:( …you had some very interesting points and facts to back them up…I enjoyed reading them:clapping: !
 
Thank you. Milliardo ruined the topic by starting an argument with me.

I guess we could continue discussing it. You had some good points too. 👍
 
Thanks again. 👍

I don’t mind a healthy debate, as long as it’s constructive. I spent an hour arguing on a chat room with an atheist over the proof of creation. I witnesses the best I could and didn’t get far. I can only pray that I planted a seed.

I know that the Koran portrays Jesus as a prophet, but doesn’t have him teaching much. He is even depicted denying his own diety too. (My muslim info books quote Jesus as denying his role as a savior/God)

I don’t know much more than that. My copy of the Koran is yet to arrive.
 
My copy of my Quran is buried somewhere so let me see if I can explain this (to the best of my knowledge)…

Yes Muslims view Jesus as a prophet as to why they do not follow his example (as per a Catholic view point)…
*Islam regards its teachings to be a re-affirmation and culmination of the teachings of previous monotheistic religions like Judaism and Christianity. Hence, all Muslims believe in Moses and Jesus as Prophets of God. ** www.whyislam.org

He (refering to Jesus) taught that love and mercy overcome hate and anger and that only a true and sincere faith in the Creator and obedience to His will can bring a person salvation in this life as well as in the next. www.whyislam.org*
*
So perhaps what they are saying is that they do follow his “teaching” his teaching that is mentioned in paragraph 2 above.
 
Some of the Islam I’ve been exposed to seems to promote vengance and killing of one’s enemies. Jesus said to turn the other cheek and to love your enemies. I wonder how they reconcile these two issues.
 
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