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franko2
Guest
All I want to know is it true that the prophet muhammad really married a nine year old girl, surely this isn;t true. Thanks
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meedo
Guest
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franko2
Guest
That’s horrible, can a muslim confirm this. So in effect he is a child molester.
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MugenOne
Guest
Meedo is a Muslim and you heard it from the horse’s mouth.
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slyboots
Guest
Um…the idea of child molester is possibly incorrect.
Remember young girls were taken in marriage at very young ages in the past. While nine does sound terribly young, Our Lady was traditionally only a very young teen herself when Christ was conceived and she married St Joseph.
Just because Mohammed married a nine year old does not mean he had sex with her until sometime later.
I am not apologizing for Mohammed. Just thinking out loud.
Incidentally, I am a child welfare social worker. I know a bit about child abusers.
Remember young girls were taken in marriage at very young ages in the past. While nine does sound terribly young, Our Lady was traditionally only a very young teen herself when Christ was conceived and she married St Joseph.
Just because Mohammed married a nine year old does not mean he had sex with her until sometime later.
I am not apologizing for Mohammed. Just thinking out loud.
Incidentally, I am a child welfare social worker. I know a bit about child abusers.
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MugenOne
Guest
How do you know? There are many sources stating he did have sex with her. It is the same topic that many CAF fellas have successfully pointed out in the past.
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Jerusha
Guest
Back in that time, social mores were different. It was considered acceptable behavior.
I think if you were to research sexuality in Europe before, say, 1800, you would find that virgin brides were rare, and child sexuality was taken as a natural behavior, not as something that is “caught” from adults. This was probably more evident in the lower classes.
Obsession with sexual sin is evidence of a society absessed with sexuality. It still hasn’t been overcome.
I think if you were to research sexuality in Europe before, say, 1800, you would find that virgin brides were rare, and child sexuality was taken as a natural behavior, not as something that is “caught” from adults. This was probably more evident in the lower classes.
Obsession with sexual sin is evidence of a society absessed with sexuality. It still hasn’t been overcome.
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slyboots
Guest
I don’t know for sure. Do you have a video of his exploitation of the child? Even those can be altered.
I wasn’t approving of it. But even if he did sexual mores’ were very different then.
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franko2
Guest
Is it also true that muhammad was a man of the sword, if this also true then there is no comparsion between jesus and muhammad.
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slyboots
Guest
Nope no comparison. Jesus Christ is God. Mohammed **was **man.
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franko2
Guest
If these things are true then why would any sane person follow this religion? Doesn’t it bother muslims that he done these things.
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Montalban
Guest
Please provide evidence for this about Mary.
I’ve been over this apology countless times, it’s based on a book that’s never been accepted as a ‘gospel’ AND even then it was just a betrothal - and at fourteen!
Secondly, the actual sources say that Muhammed did have sex with her when she was nine years old. (see below)
Thus you have to compare a man in his forties who actually had sex with a nine year old evidenced by solid Arabic scriptural support to a man who was betrothed to a 14 year old evidenced by one contested book.
That apology has come up so many times!
Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:
Narrated Hisham’s father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/058.sbt.html#005.058.236
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88:
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and c**onsummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old **and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.088
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65:
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he** consummated his marriage when she was nine years old**. Hisham said: I have been informed that ‘Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)’
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.065
olume 7, Book 62, Number 64:
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.064
AND this isn’t all the scritpural support.
I await to see your evidence regarding Mary:thumbsup:
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Montalban
Guest
The apology for Islam continues…
Though still a man, they follow his example.
It makes ‘sense’ within Islam that their god would pick someone who was out of the ordinary to give his message to.
Many people will avoid foods that he avoided, even though they are legally permitted them, simply because they want to be as close to what he did as possible. They’ll even do other things that he did…
“What is the Shari ruling regarding standing while urinating”
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=9790&ln=eng
This says that it’s permitted, but that Muhammed squatted.
That’s not the end of it though. Moslems believe that Muhammed was the ‘ideal’ man.
Though still a man, they follow his example.
It makes ‘sense’ within Islam that their god would pick someone who was out of the ordinary to give his message to.
Many people will avoid foods that he avoided, even though they are legally permitted them, simply because they want to be as close to what he did as possible. They’ll even do other things that he did…
“What is the Shari ruling regarding standing while urinating”
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=9790&ln=eng
This says that it’s permitted, but that Muhammed squatted.
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Montalban
Guest
This is a total misunderstanding of Islam. And, a false comparison. Nowhere does it say that Christians should follow the example of some 17th century peasant on this subject.
Nowhere do they say that the example of Muhammad is to no longer be followed.
Check out these to see that they’re still being advised on this matter…
In summary, then, it is permitted to contract marriage with a young girl and to hand her over to her husband to stay with him before she reaches adolescence. As for consummating the marriage, this does not happen until she is physically able for it. Thus the matter becomes quite clear. Do you see anything wrong with a man living with his young wife in one house, bringing her up and teaching her, but delaying consummation until she is ready for it? We ask Allaah to show us truth and falsehood and to make each clear. And Allaah knows best
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=1493&ln=eng
And…
islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=6737
islamicvoice.com/august.98/marriage.htm#EAR
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Montalban
Guest
Satan is the master of confusion. Many Moslems are confused.
I’ve discussed this subject with many who try several arguments all at once.
Further, many people aren’t allowed to speak up on this issue because
a) you’re deemed to be attacking Islam
or
b) you’re frightened of what Moslems will do
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slyboots
Guest
Montalban said: “I await to see your evidence regarding Mary” among other things.
1)Ok not everything can be found in scripture. So Mary’s age isn’t mentioned. It’s tradition.
But the CAF talks about it here:
forum.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=130652&postcount=2
2) How old do you think she was and how are we able to prove that?
Chill a little, Montalban. I am not pro-child molestation or child marriage. And I have said as much in my posting.
1)Ok not everything can be found in scripture. So Mary’s age isn’t mentioned. It’s tradition.
But the CAF talks about it here:
forum.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=130652&postcount=2
2) How old do you think she was and how are we able to prove that?
Chill a little, Montalban. I am not pro-child molestation or child marriage. And I have said as much in my posting.
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Montalban
Guest
Let’s go through your ‘evidence’
NO IT IS NOT TRADITION. There’s apocryphal writings that says she was fourteen at the betrothal. A few may have accepted this tradition, but over-all the church has not.
And even your evidence here notes that it’s not tradition that she was fourteen, but that site says she MIGHT HAVE BEEN 14. That’s not saying “We know by tradition that she was 14” at all.
We don’t know how old she was
And even if she was 14, 14 is young, but it’s not 9. And again that’s the age she might have been betrothed.
You’re still pushing for Mary (even by way of ‘tradition’) being of an age comparable to Aisha. She was not, for starters.
I’ll chill out when you either change your attack (by providing real evidence that these two cases are the same) or give up comparing an assault on a child to the marriage of Joseph to Mary.
Rather than simply acknowledge you were wrong you’ve continued to push for a comparison that fails;
a) in age difference (nine -v- fourteen)
b) in status (consummation -v- betrothal)
c) in evidence (accepted hadith -v- unaccepted apocryphal writing)
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slyboots
Guest
Montalban,
You are apparently losing it.
You think my few comments are attacks?
Get real.
Here’s my post to which you have responded…
Um…the idea of child molester is possibly incorrect.
Remember young girls were taken in marriage at very young ages in the past. While nine does sound terribly young, Our Lady was traditionally only a very young teen herself when Christ was conceived and she married St Joseph.
Just because Mohammed married a nine year old does not mean he had sex with her until sometime later.
I am not apologizing for Mohammed. Just thinking out loud.
Incidentally, I am a child welfare social worker. I know a bit about child abusers.
None of this was aimed at you or anybody else as an attack.
You are apparently losing it.
You think my few comments are attacks?
Get real.
Here’s my post to which you have responded…
Um…the idea of child molester is possibly incorrect.
Remember young girls were taken in marriage at very young ages in the past. While nine does sound terribly young, Our Lady was traditionally only a very young teen herself when Christ was conceived and she married St Joseph.
Just because Mohammed married a nine year old does not mean he had sex with her until sometime later.
I am not apologizing for Mohammed. Just thinking out loud.
Incidentally, I am a child welfare social worker. I know a bit about child abusers.
None of this was aimed at you or anybody else as an attack.
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slyboots
Guest
Next regarding having “evidence” concerning Mary’s age?
I sited an apologist from this forum. I didn’t say anything about her youth being the definitive infallible fact you seem to think I was implying.
I sited an apologist from this forum. I didn’t say anything about her youth being the definitive infallible fact you seem to think I was implying.
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Montalban
Guest
That’s right, when I give you evidence and you continue with no evidence, that’s me losing it!
They’re not just a ‘few comments’ but you repeating with your mistake.
When you’re confronted with evidence then one might think you’d consider admitting you were wrong. You haven’t. Now you’ve gone from addressing that to calling into question my sanity.
You state in that “Our Lady was traditionally only a young teen”
That is false. If you were just thinking out loud why do you need to defend this so vigorously when confronted by evidence? Your beliefs are shown to be false. Even your half-hearted attempt to provide evidence, which was merely a link to another part of the thread which itself had a link to evidence from a Catholic site failed, because that site didn’t support your case.
And “Just because Mohammed married a nine year old does not mean he had sex with her until sometime later.”
The evidence says he did.
Indeed, but you not dealing with evidence seems to upset you and cause you into making personal attacks to those who respond.
You can either
a) come up with evidence to support those statements above
or
b) withdraw the statements.
(or, as per your form so far,
c) question my sanity, or ask me to ‘chill out’)
So, sorry ‘dude’ if I’m not chill enough for you.
Then why try relativist arguments?
Why do you think the betrothal of a 14 year old (assuming that was her age) is anything like the consummation of marriage to a 9 year old? Please give me your professional opinion
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